First footage from the RED DRAGON released

starcentral said:
So you have to buy EPIC, then dragon update? How much is that - or can you buy Dragon camera off the shelf? If so how much?
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You can upgrade your epic or scarlet to dragon. But you can also just buy a EPIC-M dragon. But will prob ship after the upgrades start.
 
starcentral said:
So you have to buy EPIC, then dragon update? How much is that - or can you buy Dragon camera off the shelf? If so how much?
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According to the RED store, the upgrade is $9500, the camera with a lens mount and the SSD side mount, is $31,200. The basic minimum kit they sell is $42k, although you will probably want the $45k kit.

Not sure how well a regular computer can handle RED media, but the Red Rocket, which is probably an FPGA on a PCIe, for real time, or faster than realtime processing, is about $4500.
 
atarijedi said:
Not sure how well a regular computer can handle RED media, but the Red Rocket, which is probably an FPGA on a PCIe, for real time, or faster than realtime processing, is about $4500.
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My 2nd hand Mac Powerbook Pro from 2012 can edit the .r3d files in real time at 1/4 rez.
 
I'll stick to my F55 for now, but was curious about the costs.

What are limitations of upgrading a scarlet to dragon vs epic dragon.
 
Samuel H said:
Question about the DR: it's supposed to be the greatest improvement with this new sensor, I've seen the step chart test and was very impressed by it... but the light-meter readings in the video/framegrabs seem to indicate that these scenes were not really THAT demanding in this respect. I mean, if the highlight is f/44 and the shadows are f/4, well, that's a difference of 7 stops, so, not really impressive, even a GH2 should be able to cope with that without any issues. What am I missing?

edit: maybe these readings are incident, and then I have to take into account the difference between a light-grey car and a deep black tyre? For this, I would take reflected readings myself...
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A GH2 can pan down from the sky to the forest floor? Come on, stills from a D800 can barely handle something like that.

I don't know about the measurements / math on the accuracy or significance of his claimed f-stops, but visually I'm satisfied that this is a milestone in dynamic range.
 
MattRobertson said:
Impressive on paper, but i'd still take the image from an alexa anyday over this. Just not a fan of the red look. Always had a harsh characteristic to it. Feel like i'd always be fighting the highlight roll off, color science, etc in post. Just never has looked natural to me. I know you guys will wax on about how amazing the skin tones look now and what not but just dont' like the red asthetic.
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mcgeedigital said:
To each their own.

But being RAW, there really ISN'T a "Red look".

You can make it look however you want.
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What McGee said. I've never understood that the criticisms against Red have been "I don't like that it doesn't respond like film. I also don't like that it IS edited like film [starting off with a "blank slate" rather than having a "baked-in" "look" like non-raw digital]." Do you want it like film or not?
 
Red, Arri & now Sony, all great high end camera's, so much choice and compared to the days of old for so little money ie. Arri Alexa package now less than half the price of a top of the line Sony digi betacam in its day......& how long ago was that ?

In fact I think I could purchase 4 Epic Dragons & take the wife for an extended overseas holiday & still walk out with change compared to the price of just one F35 6 years ago!

In regards to one camera better than the other , I personally luv the looks in "Oblivion", "Great Gatsby" & "Skyfall" so WTF get out there & do it . Stop playing the old tiresome HDSLR fanboy this camera better than that camera flamewars. Sure everyone's entitled to preferences, every camera mentioned above has issues but at the end of the day this is truly a golden age in camera development. The new Dragon sensor continues the trend for higher image quality for less. All fanboys be dammed, all professionals rejoice.
 
Surf it Mike said:
Red, Arri & now Sony, all great high end camera's, so much choice and compared to the days of old for so little money ie. Arri Alexa package now less than half the price of a top of the line Sony digi betacam in its day......& how long ago was that ?

In fact I think I could purchase 4 Epic Dragons & take the wife for an extended overseas holiday & still walk out with change compared to the price of just one F35 6 years ago!

In regards to one camera better than the other , I personally luv the looks in "Oblivion", "Great Gatsby" & "Skyfall" so WTF get out there & do it . Stop playing the old tiresome HDSLR fanboy this camera better than that camera flamewars. Sure everyone's entitled to preferences, every camera mentioned above has issues but at the end of the day this is truly a golden age in camera development. The new Dragon sensor continues the trend for higher image quality for less. All fanboys be dammed, all professionals rejoice.
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Well put!
 
dmitrizigany said:
In just a few more years our iPhones are gonna have cameras with 17 stops of dynamic range ;)
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I hear this all the time, but cell phones have something like a 1/36th of an inch sensor, with a crappy tiny, plastic lens - are are actually an example of how pro tools and amateur tools never really meet in the same space as they have completely different purposes.
 
phone sensors are usually around 1/3" nowadays, so, in terms of size, on par with some high-end camcorders of only 5 years ago
 
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Not even 5 years ago

The Xf300 has 1/3" chips, the HPX250 has 1/3" chips, in fact one would have to go pretty far up the ladder to get bigger chips in the full featured ENG style camcorder world.
 
Well, to be fair, those have three 1/3" sensors, my phone only has one. But yes, still lots of small-sensor cameras in the market, even if I don't pay any attention to them.
 
RED look or not... "it looks RED" to me. And that's not a bad thing. But I can usally tell when something is shot on RED; and hell I'm usually right, too.

In comparison though, it's where Alexa looks a lot more like film to me. I guess it's a good thing we all have different taste and different eyes :)
 
Oller Visuals said:
RED look or not... "it looks RED" to me. And that's not a bad thing. But I can usally tell when something is shot on RED; and hell I'm usually right, too.

In comparison though, it's where Alexa looks a lot more like film to me. I guess it's a good thing we all have different taste and different eyes :)
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What makes the Alexa look more like "film" is that there is a 1/4 low contast filter on the OLPF besides the IR filter on it. Putting a low contrast filter makes the highlights bloom instead of clip and makes you think your getting more DR then what the camera can actually do by itself. If you put a 1/4 low contrast filter on the RED, your match a ALEXA very well. Resolution is a different story. Jim Jarred is also toying with the idea of making it a option with dragon for people if you want a 1/4 low contrast filter on the OLPF just like the ALEXA comes standard.
 
Joncarr said:
What makes the Alexa look more like "film" is that there is a 1/4 low contast filter on the OLPF besides the IR filter on it. Putting a low contrast filter makes the highlights bloom instead of clip and makes you think your getting more DR then what the camera can actually do by itself. If you put a 1/4 low contrast filter on the RED, your match a ALEXA very well. Resolution is a different story. Jim Jarred is also toying with the idea of making it a option with dragon for people if you want a 1/4 low contrast filter on the OLPF just like the ALEXA comes standard.
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If this is all it takes to make a Red's image look as pleasing as an Alexa why is this the first time I've heard about it? If that was true then wouldn't it be common knowledge and come up in nearly every debate about Alexa versus Red?
 
Fluoro said:
If this is all it takes to make a Red's image look as pleasing as an Alexa why is this the first time I've heard about it? If that was true then wouldn't it be common knowledge and come up in nearly every debate about Alexa versus Red?
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Common knowledge to me.
 
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