Firestore or Cineporter?

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daveswan

Well-known member
Ok, This isn't intended to be snide, so please don't read it that way.
Now that, as I understand it, FS100 can recdord 720p, what is to be gained by waiting for cineporter?
I'm assuming that it is a better bet than FS for some things, but.....
1) I don't need very long recording times, so don't need 160 or 320 gig
2) I know that FS won't record 720pn, but apart from longer recording, what does 720pn give that 720p doesn't?
3) Again I'm assuming that FS is cheeper than CP will be, and I'm definatly cash-strapped.

It will be the new year before I can even think about what to buy, so can wait for CP to arrive, and am willing to be convinced that the extra cash will be worth it, but will it?

Hoping for enlightenment,
Dave
 
CinePorter is a Direct PS replacement. Acts as a big P2 card. You cant ask for more, and should not expect any less. Also 320gigs. You should really read the CinePorter FAQ.
 
"You cant ask for more..."
Actually, I can...

With the soon to be released version 3.0 of the FS-100 firmware, it will do Native modes and do the QuickTime re-wrap on the fly, saving FCP users a lot of time ingesting the footage.

Aside from larger disk size, and playback thumbnails, I don't know that the CinePorter will do anything the FS-100 can't. And being a huge P2 card, you're stuck with things that the HVX can't do on it's own, that the FS-100 allows it to do, such as snap shots and time lapes in any format in any time lenght setting.

I've been using the FS-100 for months and absolutly love it. It's been really reliable, very durable, does what I need. And since my documentary started a couple of months ago, I couldn't wait for the CinePorter.

So, I'm not sure what the CinePorter has over the FS-100 anymore. Just being a huge P2 card places limitations on it the FS-100 doesn't have.
 
I don't have either (obviously I don't have the CinePorter, given it's not out yet), so take that with a grain of salt (or a heaping tablesoon of it!).

However, from what I have read on this forum, the Firestore's biggest weakness was the firewire connection. This wasn't a design fault of the Firestore, just that the firewire connection could slip out and ruin the shot.

A good friend nearby shoots JVC (2/3 chip) onto a firewire drive and he has the same problem. Luckily, he is shooting to tape at the same time. And much of what he shoots is on sticks, too! HVX will not have a tape backup, so if that connection comes loose, well, I rest my case.

I don't know, but if for that reason alone, I'd prefer the CinePorter what with it's P2 connection being much more secure.

Ben, you seem very solid behind the Firestore. Have you ever had this type of problem? If not, maybe this isn't much of an issue anymore.

Please correct me if my information is incorrect. But based on this info, I've been budgeting for a CinePorter for Q1 2007.

Warm regards,
Scott
 
All I can say is a lot of us are using the FS-100 and don't have FW connection problems. I've never had a problem. Nothing two seconds of forethought won't take care of. I use it on sticks, run and gun, I've never had those problems.

I also like being able to do the time lapes I want, not what the camera limites me to, since I am doing a good bit of time lapse recording. But again, all solutions have their appropriate uses. The FS-100 has been a dream come true for me and many other users.
 
That's good to know. Maybe Frank's is an older model (purple and mounts on back of cam. His was fine for awhile, then he started having issues with the cable coming out more and more often.

Thanks for the info.
 
Well, a cable is a cable, and needs to be taken care of. Never leave any cable just flapping in the wind, duh! The original release had a firmware bug that was fixed pretty quickly. And I've never seen a purple FS-100 (their black), aside from the screen.

Right angle FW cables are super cheap and work great for me. I keep a 1 ft, 3 ft, 6 ft, and a 10 ft in my gig bag. I also shoot most of my stuff on a CineSaddle, which I'll never leave home without.
 
Four or five things the CinePorter promises to do, that you can't do with the FireStore:

1) play back clips based on thumbnails. No thumbnails in the FS-100 display, so you can only search and play back your clips based on some text name rather than seeing a picture of the clip you want.

2) you can play back your clips and monitor them in high-def. FS-100 can't do that, because the HVX won't pass a firewire signal through to the HD component outputs. But in-camera playback will go to the HD outputs, and the CinePorter promises to simulate that behavior.

3) Variable-speed/forward-reverse playback is quite easy with the in-camera controls; does the FS-100 offer the same flexibility? I'm askin', I don't know...

4) Dubbing from in-camera to downconvert to tape would be possible with the CinePorter, not possible with the FS-100.

5) CinePorter can use DV Rack or other capture software (or a tape deck or any other external recorder) to do simultaneous/backup recording to disc and to external firewire recorder. Can't do that with the FS-100; you could record to P2 card and also to the FS-100, but that rules out DV Rack.

Now, mind you, I say the CinePorter "promises" to do those things, because it doesn't actually exist on the market yet so there has to be a certain clarification there. The FS-100 is an existing, shipping product that actually does the things it says it will; the CinePorter is not yet a shipping product and we'll have to see what it does when it ships in order to know all these things for sure.

One thing the FS-100 does that the CinePorter won't: it will work with any other DV camera or firewire-based DVCPRO-50 or DVCPRO-HD camera too. CP can only be used with P2 cameras, the FS-100 can be used with the HDX900 for example.
 
BenB said:
Well, a cable is a cable, and needs to be taken care of. Never leave any cable just flapping in the wind, duh! The original release had a firmware bug that was fixed pretty quickly. And I've never seen a purple FS-100 (their black), aside from the screen.

Right angle FW cables are super cheap and work great for me. I keep a 1 ft, 3 ft, 6 ft, and a 10 ft in my gig bag. I also shoot most of my stuff on a CineSaddle, which I'll never leave home without.
Click to expand...
What about time-lapse, or Shooting with variable frame rates, ranging from 2-60 FPS. You can’t do this with the firestore.

Also, I’m sure Panny is going to take more and more advantage of the P2 slot by adding more and more P2 only futures as the update the HVX or release new models. With the Cineporter you’ll be abele to take advantage of new features right away. With the Fire Store Focuse Enhancements might be able to mimic some of the newer P2 features, for example native nodes.

The fact that the firestore is only mimicking native nodes and varibel frame rates makes me nervous. I’m not so sure I want to trust the FireStore with that. Ya, sure if something goes wrong, you always have your tape as a backup –one problem it’s DV, not HD.

but you’ll have to wait for them to release a firmware update. Which by the way they have been very nice to give to their customers at no charge, but that could change.
 
I think there is no doubt that the CinePorter is a smarter product as it takes advantage of the P2 technology which is at the core of the HVX design. However the drawback is: it's not out yet and not proven. If you need a recording device other than the P2's, then right now the FS100 is the only game in town.
 
FW ports blow out when you plug peripherals in while they're turned on. They don't blow out while your already plugged in. I think that line protector is a tad of overkill.

Its very easy to jump between clips on the FS. I know Focus is working on Thumbnails, but if that's important to you, that's an issue. It's still pretty easy in practice. With my old eyes, I can see any detail in those dang tiny thumbnails, anyway. But it is super easy to fast forward, rewind during playback, skip from clip to clip, very, very easy with the FS.

Ken, you need to learn more about the FS-100. The FS-100 does do variable frame rates, and more time lapse settings than the HVX does on it's own, snap shots, and I've been using it an adverse conditions for months with no problems. And it's not HD? Um, yes it is! And as for doing the Native modes, the 3.0 firmware update will use the same method as the P2 card uses to record native modes, only writes the required frames. Plus will do the QuickTime re-wrap on the fly. It's 100% true MXF data, exactly the same as get's written to the P2 card.

Ken, it's not "mimicked", it's recording with the same method the P2 card uses. All the metadata is exactly the same as what you get on a P2 card. Please get your facts straight before jumping to conclusions. If you don't trust the Firewire port, then you don't trust live recoding to an NLE with this camera nor with the DVX100.

The CinePorter is a hard drive, not a P2 card, it just plugs into the P2 port, and won't do the time lapse settings and snap shots that the FS-100 can do. As for having to wait for firmware updates, let's take a good hard honest look at that: Focus Enhancements has released numerous updates so far that introduce new functions to the FS-100. Panasonic hasn't come close to doing that for the HVX, and CinePorter just plain doesn't exist at the moment, so I think Focus has proven that they will be on top of things before anyone else.

FS-100 has disk repair utilities, great flexibility, enhanced features not available with P2, and is as solid and reliable of a product as I've ever used.

Not to mention I can throw release forms, to do lists, etc, on the drive to carry around with me.

For my work, P2 just doesn't hold nearly enough footage to be viable, and the CinePorter is not here yet, so the FS-100 is the only game in town, and I'm VERY happy with it. It's proven itself reliable, very reliable. I have been trusting very valuable footage to it for months, and it's solid.

If anyone has doubts, come down here and work with me for a few days and see what you think about the FS.
 
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Scott Sullivan said:
I don't have either (obviously I don't have the CinePorter, given it's not out yet), so take that with a grain of salt (or a heaping tablesoon of it!).

However, from what I have read on this forum, the Firestore's biggest weakness was the firewire connection. This wasn't a design fault of the Firestore, just that the firewire connection could slip out and ruin the shot.

A good friend nearby shoots JVC (2/3 chip) onto a firewire drive and he has the same problem. Luckily, he is shooting to tape at the same time. And much of what he shoots is on sticks, too! HVX will not have a tape backup, so if that connection comes loose, well, I rest my case.

I don't know, but if for that reason alone, I'd prefer the CinePorter what with it's P2 connection being much more secure.

Ben, you seem very solid behind the Firestore. Have you ever had this type of problem? If not, maybe this isn't much of an issue anymore.

Please correct me if my information is incorrect. But based on this info, I've been budgeting for a CinePorter for Q1 2007.

Warm regards,
Scott
Click to expand...
I also have never encountered any issues with the firewire cable coming loose. But of course I made sure it was secure. a little bit of gaffer tape, wrap it through the handle. Didn't seem a problem.

And don't forget you do see a solid red indicator dot in the HVX LCD screen next to the 1394 indicator. This shows when it is recording. I'm sure that if the cable connection comes loose this record indicator will dissappear. So its not like you are going to carry on recording for the rest of the day and get nothing.

I very regularly check to see the timecode numbers clicking by on the firestore.

And I second the very important point that as of now the cineporter does nothing, because it is not available. For all you guys know this may be the next 'citidisk'.

I don't think its even possible to compare a product that has been used by a huge number of people for an extended period of time to something that only has a waiting list available.

Talk is cheap... lets see what cineporter has when it gets on the feild.
 
I yanked my FW cable out of it while recording to see what would happen. The HVX flashes a lost connection warning in the middle of the LCD, so you would know for sure right away. And the FW record indicator on the HVX's LCD, as stated, changes to a stop mode icon. The HVX tells you right there on it's own LCD what your FS-100 is doing. Good point, I just take that stuff for granted, I guess.
 
Well, I stated something didn't I?
It wasn't realy my intention to start a controversy, though I've been around this forum long enough to know better.
Yes I have read the Cineporter FAQ, since early July, so I've been following the saga (If you look closely you may even find one or two of my posts).
It will be the new year at least before I can afford either, so plenty of time to come to a decision.
Regards to all,
Dave
 
I've been shooting firestore for a couple of months now and haven't had a problem with FireWire disconnecting. Fan can get a little loud in a quiet room, but hey, now there's no need to unplug the fridge. Great product, though I've had some trouble getting FCP to remove the redundant frames, converting to 720pn on import. Checking "remove pulldown/redundant frames" under preferences in the p2 import window doesn't do a thing. FCP removes pulldown from 1080pA without a hitch. Running FCP 5.1.2. Also running latest update of 2.0 on firestore. All in all, glad I didn't wait for CinePorter, though thumbnails and HD playback out RGB would be nice.
 
I have actually found a way to keep the firewire cable secure when using my FS-100. I have the Varizoom Focus-Iris-Zoom for the HVX and of course it has two connectors. The controller connectors are adjacent to the firewire port. It is a very tight fit to get all 3 cables connected and that keeps the firewire cable secure!

Ned Soltz
 
I think me too that FS-100 is a good product. Now I know that I will don't buy cineporter... Too long, too late . Next month I buy FS-100 !!!
 
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