Finding RELIABLE PEOPLE!!!

Just because you pay somebody, doesn't make them skilled or reliable. I agree that you should find a way to make your positions paid, because it is time consuming if nothing else. Rely on resumes and call the people they have worked with.
 
MattinSTL said:
They say there's no free lunch... but that's not entirely true, some people on occasion can get away with stealing one... which is why older guys are hesitant to put their steak on your plate when they already know there's no money.
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Awesome.
:thumbsup:

If only it fit on a tshirt.
 
Capt Quirk said:
Just because you pay somebody, doesn't make them skilled or reliable.
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That's true. But I suspect that most skilled, reliable people are more likely to be interested in a paying gig, than a non-paying one. And if you're paying, you at least can apply some standards to their performance.
 
MattinSTL said:
I've given my time, gear, and skills to a couple different student filmmakers on two different occasions and it was totally taken for granted... they didn't even have the sense of obligation or responsibility to send me a copy of the finished product or even let me know what they did with it. Even if a project turns out to be junk you still want to know what happened after you donate time and gear.
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Then that be fair, you do get the odd ass out there that give student filmmakers a bad name.
 
Arson said:
16 year olds with no experience will totally look up to, and work for, a 17 year old with no experience.

Do whatever you can with whoever you can recruit and if your work is good enough then people be dying to work for you... or pay them if you're not brilliant.
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Yeah...I got one guy like that luckily, nice guy. But you would be surprised how rare it is to find any 16 year old filmmakers around here. It seems like only when people get to college and they actually have it as a major and HAVE to get some work done do they start pursuing it.
 
Actors will do a lot for credit. Unless you're entering Sundance you probably won't find a crew who will work for credit. You may be able to find an audiophile or a photographer who could help, though...

DVX User answer: throw money at it! (Hint: $5.50 an hour isn't enough to make movies in high school...)
 
The fact that you see paying fellow human beings to work for you as "throwing money at it!" demonstrates you don't understand humans or what motivates them.

I was a high schooler, I saved up money and I paid for the gas and food of high school students and cable access volunteers to help me make my movies. One of my movies earned me a full ride scholarship to NYU.

At $5.50 an hour at 20 hours a week you can save up enough to do a project with a thousand dollar budget in 3 months. That's easily enough to pay 4-5 people for 2 days of production, to rent a DVX100 and to spend some money on costumes & props.
 
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salils said:
Yeah...I got one guy like that luckily, nice guy. But you would be surprised how rare it is to find any 16 year old filmmakers around here. It seems like only when people get to college and they actually have it as a major and HAVE to get some work done do they start pursuing it.
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Salils -

If you're serious about this craft, I'll explain what I did when I was your age.

1.) I started a theatre company when I was 14. This gave me access to actors and it forced me to write short plays, direct them and get in the habit of directing actors. The actors were from high schools throughout Portland. It was damn near impossible to hold the theatre company together because most people are inherently flakey. At the time, I thought it was because we were high schoolers and "when I grew up" people would become more responsible. I learned later that high schoolers really are adults...I was more responsible than my fellow "drama geeks" and always would be. I had to join professional circles to find people who were like me, who cared deeply about this craft...so, in the meantime, just accept that your going to deal with a lot of flakes.

2.) After 1 year of running a theatre company my father realized this wasn't a passing fancy and began taking my career seriously. He drove me to our local cable access station. I began taking classes and using their gear to make shorts.

3.) I would make 2-3 "quickee shorts" every month throughout my Sophomore and Junior year of High School. Some were fake commercials. A few were documentaries about my home town. Most were narrative-style music videos. The goal with each project was to focus on one thing that I could improve upon in the next project.

4.) Every 4-5 months I would do a larger scale project. This was a project I'd spend money on. I'd save money from my minimum-wage job at McDonalds and make a much more ambitious project. Perhaps it would take 2-3 weekends to shoot. I recruited actors from my old theatre company and from my high school drama department...and I usually made them be the crew! We didn't know any better, so I told them when they weren't on camera they had to help with the gear. I also had volunteers from the cable access station. I paid for everyone's gas and provided food.

5.) By the time I was a senior I'd completed about 20 "quickee" projects and 2-3 major projects. Now, my focus was to complete one major, ambitious 10 minute movie for my application to NYU. I made a vampire movie. We shot for several weekends on equipment that is incredibly primitive by today's standards. I spent weeks in the cable access editing bay (editing on a home computer was still 15 years away). I spent time crafting professional opening and closing credits, mixing the audio to the best of my ability and making additional copies (because S-VHS was rather fragile.)

6.) I sent a copy to NYU and got a full ride scholarship.

I didn't live in LA or New York. I lived in Clackamas, Oregon. Everyone thought I was weird. My friends would say things like "When are your movies going to look like real movies?" as if comparing my $200.00 short to Raiders Of The Lost Ark was a fair comparison. My parents were completely opposed to what I was doing. I had crappy gear. No one believed in me. It was always a struggle...

...and that's why I say to any young person trying to make movies "You better have grit. This craft will crush anyone who is prone to giving up. Stop making excuses. Grab a camera and do it. Shoot every day. Shoot all the time. Get so comfortable with the language of cinema that when you finally do have a budget you know exactly what you're doing. And if the only thing you can focus on is that you have a minimum wage job and few resources, then the real problem is your own attitude."

Now, I'm an art director for a video game company. I earn a fantastic salary. Prodigi, Inc. has two growing divisions: a motion picture equipment rental company and a technology division to develop cutting-edge film gear. I have a short film that's winning film festivals. I've directed James Earl Jones, Mark Hamill, Curtis Armstrong and many other celebrities. I'm not famous, but I'm one step away from financial independence and being able to make movies every day for the rest of my life...and none of it would have been possible if I hadn't have been incredibly serious as a high schooler.
 
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Prodigi Pictures said:
"You better have grit. This craft will crush anyone who is prone to giving up. "
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Yep. I started doing theater design work and shooting small projects in junior high school and high school, and took my last semester to intern in production at a local tv station, and wound up with a partial scholarship to the Newhouse School at Syracuse University. No matter how horrendous any given failure might have been, I treated it as a starting point from which not to make the same mistakes. And my family mostly thought that I was nuts, too. I still remember my father coming downstairs, where I was working on a paying project, and asking "wait a minute...you're getting paid to do this?" (after which he never again second-guessed my professional judgment...)

I'm serious, in saying that the key to success is being too dumb to know when to quit.
 
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Sad Max said:
I still remember my father coming downstairs, where I was working on a paying project, and asking "wait a minute...you're getting paid to do this?"
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What's funny is that kind of reaction seems to never end sometimes.
I've been working in this field for going on 12 years now (from the first paying gig).

When I went home to visit last time I showed my parents a copy of the newest show we were working on -
the first words out of my mom's mouth when it was over was "so someone's paying you to make this?"

:thumbsup:

Ahhhh parents.
 
Prodigi Pictures said:
Salils -

If you're serious about this craft, I'll explain what I did when I was your age.

1.) I started a theatre company when I was 14. This gave me access to actors and it forced me to write short plays, direct them and get in the habit of directing actors. The actors were from high schools throughout Portland. It was damn near impossible to hold the theatre company together because most people are inherently flakey. At the time, I thought it was because we were high schoolers and "when I grew up" people would become more responsible. I learned later that high schoolers really are adults...I was more responsible than my fellow "drama geeks" and always would be. I had to join professional circles to find people who were like me, who cared deeply about this craft...so, in the meantime, just accept that your going to deal with a lot of flakes.

2.) After 1 year of running a theatre company my father realized this wasn't a passing fancy and began taking my career seriously. He drove me to our local cable access station. I began taking classes and using their gear to make shorts.

3.) I would make 2-3 "quickee shorts" every month throughout my Sophomore and Junior year of High School. Some were fake commercials. A few were documentaries about my home town. Most were narrative-style music videos. The goal with each project was to focus on one thing that I could improve upon in the next project.

4.) Every 4-5 months I would do a larger scale project. This was a project I'd spend money on. I'd save money from my minimum-wage job at McDonalds and make a much more ambitious project. Perhaps it would take 2-3 weekends to shoot. I recruited actors from my old theatre company and from my high school drama department...and I usually made them be the crew! We didn't know any better, so I told them when they weren't on camera they had to help with the gear. I also had volunteers from the cable access station. I paid for everyone's gas and provided food.

5.) By the time I was a senior I'd completed about 20 "quickee" projects and 2-3 major projects. Now, my focus was to complete one major, ambitious 10 minute movie for my application to NYU. I made a vampire movie. We shot for several weekends on equipment that is incredibly primitive by today's standards. I spent weeks in the cable access editing bay (editing on a home computer was still 15 years away). I spent time crafting professional opening and closing credits, mixing the audio to the best of my ability and making additional copies (because S-VHS was rather fragile.)

6.) I sent a copy to NYU and got a full ride scholarship.

I didn't live in LA or New York. I lived in Clackamas, Oregon. Everyone thought I was weird. My friends would say things like "When are your movies going to look like real movies?" as if comparing my $200.00 short to Raiders Of The Lost Ark was a fair comparison. My parents were completely opposed to what I was doing. I had crappy gear. No one believed in me. It was always a struggle...

...and that's why I say to any young person trying to make movies "You better have grit. This craft will crush anyone who is prone to giving up. Stop making excuses. Grab a camera and do it. Shoot every day. Shoot all the time. Get so comfortable with the language of cinema that when you finally do have a budget you know exactly what you're doing. And if the only thing you can focus on is that you have a minimum wage job and few resources, then the real problem is your own attitude."

Now, I'm an art director for a video game company. I earn a fantastic salary. Prodigi, Inc. has two growing divisions: a motion picture equipment rental company and a technology division to develop cutting-edge film gear. I have a short film that's winning film festivals. I've directed James Earl Jones, Mark Hamill, Curtis Armstrong and many other celebrities. I'm not famous, but I'm one step away from financial independence and being able to make movies every day for the rest of my life...and none of it would have been possible if I hadn't have been incredibly serious as a high schooler.
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Wowww incredible story!!! That's my dream right there^

You were really lucky for starting up that theatre company...my main problem is just scheduling really. Getting the right people together at the right time. I've been working on trying to get a film scheduled & shot for a month of summer vacation now. It gets rediculous.
 
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Does your school have plays?

Get involved, even if it's just to film the play. I've had so much of my life changed over the last year from doing that.

Creative people naturally attract creative people. My friends are all amazingly talented people, and luckily I know a ridiculous amount of great (imo) actors, musicians, singers, and handy kids.

You've also gotta kinda understand that your friends are 17 too. I had a week long nonstop film schedule planned for something, and it took me a few days to understand that I cant do that. Everyone still needs to see their families at night, even if you don't have to. I guess that's all part of gaining a sense of professionalism.

Reading more of what you're writing I'm in the exact same position as you. We wrote the script, and while doing it for one scene I explained "if we do this, we are going to need to be in the city at 4:30 in the morning to avoid rush hour, so don't commit if you don't mean it." Hopefully they took me saying that seriously.

The first few days of filming were a bit rocky to say the least, especially when some uninvited distractions showed up (girls.) I'm sort of getting a better hold of it, only a few weeks later. Take some time to figure the people out.

For instance, I have one friend who is an ego maniac. To keep him on track, all I have to do is say "you gave me your word." I have another friend who I bring along just to flirt with and distract the cousin/set photographer of a third friend, who is not allowed to eat while we film because he instantly goes to sleep afterwards. It's actually sorta fun, subliminally controlling the minds of them all.

The only actual suggestion I can give you is to mess around every so often., and let them see what you have to deal with. In one particular shot, I had the set photographer/friend's cousin/major distraction behind me, and she (being a photographer) understood how complicated a shot is when you have to change your aperture from open to f16, switch your white balance, switch the channel your mic is on, and still pan the camera. Now she's a little more cooperative.

I also made a fake trailer as a short side project with my friends. It made what would've been a hell day of filming much better, because they saw it, laughed, and felt more optimistic about everything. I also did it because whenever I'm not feeling so happy about the way a project is going, the only way to get myself back on track is to go and edit something.

Hope this rant helped.
 
You almost never find reliable people, unfortunately. I'm 16 years, I haven't made many films, but I sure has planned many films. Reliable people is hard to find, it's just that way it is. I've had to live with this for a long time. Good luck!
 
I seem to have keen people coming out my arse at the moment. But they have no experience. That stories cool.
 
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