Ian-T
Veteran
If I remember correctly (and please don't take this as gospel) once you hit play...the framerate drops and you get all that other mess on the screen. But when it is not recording...it's ok.
Finally saw GH2 footage first hand.. I am not upgrading. Staying with GH1.3
- Thread starter Blackout
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It's actually the other way. Live view mode has display icons and lower resolution due to 120hz sensor refresh rate in that mode. Once you hit "record" (not "play"), HDMI output is CLEAN of overlays. Still waiting for confirmation if in Cinema Mode the frame rate is 24 on HDMI stream, as it was on Phillip Bloom prototype copy. It will be amazing if somehow other 1080 modes have sensor's 50/60 fps progressive signal, but not holding my breath, as on prototypes the signal was interlaced. It would be amazing though.
ATL Media Group
Veteran
Well, I'm still selling my GH13 body (maybe kit) with two batteries by Dec after I finish one job on Nov 20th if anyone's interested. The GH2 would suit my shooting needs better as I need native 24p and long recordings. If my GH1 hacked could reliably shoot for an hour straight in 24pN mode I'd keep it as the pictures it produces are phenomenal.
How can you possibly find this footage usable? The macroblocking is much more than just noticeable on all areas with adjacent dynamic index: all yellow walls and lens glares! It's a mess!
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Ben_B
Veteran
Yeah, there's a fair amount of macro blocking in the leaves as well.
LOL! - I bow to your vastly superior eyesight
- personally, I thought it was a wonderful video.I understand the passion for perfect results - but, out in the real world, most people couldn't care less.
I reckon more than half the world gets its films (movies) down a telephone wire in a 350Mb mkv format
- and they watch 'em, and enjoy 'em every bit as much.It's the same with stills - the majority of people couldn't care less about super quality images. they take a Canon Ixus on holiday, snap away, and if they can recognise the results, then they're more than happy
Similar story with audio. The HiFi buff is almost extinct - submerged beneath an avalanche of highly compressed Mp3's - which still sound fine to 95% of listeners (including me, I should add)
By the fact that we're even participating in this forum, we're all pretty nerdy by general standards
- nothing wrong with that (at least, I don't think so) but the rest of the world just doesn't *care*.In fact, the GH2, and similar cams, are already far more than most of the world wants....
Ben_B
Veteran
I reckon more than half the world gets its films (movies) down a telephone wire in a 350Mb mkv format
I'm not sure why he says, "You'll think you have experienced it (the film) - but you will have been cheated"
Since most people who grab their films that way will not have paid any money, it's difficult to see how they've been cheated....
Having said that - I wasn't aware that people *were* watching films on their phones!.........boy! - am I out of touch!
Blackout
Veteran
I've seen this before.... and I completely agree and applaud Lynch for that clip.
When he says, "you've been cheated," he's not referring to if people paid for the movie or pirated it or any such thing, he is referring to the fact that they have been cheated out of the actual EXPERIENCE of the film, by watching it on a 3 or 4 inch device, and I completely agree with him! While youtube and all is fine for some fat kids being trapped in a bungee spring machine and ect - are you going to tell me that you could really and truly EXPERIENCE "STAR WARS" as it was intended for the first time or JAWS or any cinematic classics on a crappy little iphone? Come on man! No way!
Sure sure.. if you have seen the movie before or you're just killing time watching some stand up comedy or Conan while on a train, plane, or automobile.... ok sure, you can slightly entertain yourself - but real films or I guess we should cal them "movies" now since they aren't originating so much on film anymore - NEED A GOD DAMN BIG SCREEN for you to be fully immersed in it! I agree. I agree with all my heart.
And as to those of you who ripped Gunther's thing.... the master of it is absolutely stunning..... I just looked it it again trying to figure WTF!?!? you are talking about... thinking you were watching the vimeo instead of the download.. but then I downloaded it again and it has all this pulsing and stuff that I did not see before so I don't know if this is a higher compressed version or what the hell is going on but I assure you the un-recompressed version (or in more actuality I should say the first edit and native footage) is a masterpiece of beautiful GH1.3 images... vimeo sometimes re-encodes your videos if you don't pay and are not a 'premiere' member... so maybe that's what happened. I personally think vimeo sucks. Youtube 1080p encodes encodes surpassed vimeo encodes a long time ago, (and I am NOT saying youtube encodes are great either...just better than vimeo) still, in reality you need to see at least a 20 or 25mbit out from GH1 footage to avoid re compression issues.
Anyway..... this thread has been quite entertaining... but I'm going to sleep. I love you all, may all your film making dreams come true. These little things we are arguing over will all be absolutely things of the past within a year or so anyway so I find it funny when I catch myself getting so caught up in a techy frenzy....which is absolutely what happened.
We can make great stuff with any of these cams... and it's only going to get better and better exponentially! We all just get a little nutty sometimes... well at least I know I do...
But that's because my name is Blackout, and I am funky.
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@Framerate:
I don't know what country you live in, but here in Portugal fiber optics covers nearly 65% of domestic spots, nearly everyone has 20+Mbps bandwidth and no one I know watches any downloaded movie in anything less than 1080p. And when these files get are smaller than 10GB and macroblocking starts to appear, every single one in the rooms gets upset and clearly sees it as some kind of inferior HD. And I'm talking about regular people, by all means far from professional in these areas.
As flat screens get bigger and cheaper, expectations get higher!
I don't know what country you live in, but here in Portugal fiber optics covers nearly 65% of domestic spots, nearly everyone has 20+Mbps bandwidth and no one I know watches any downloaded movie in anything less than 1080p. And when these files get are smaller than 10GB and macroblocking starts to appear, every single one in the rooms gets upset and clearly sees it as some kind of inferior HD. And I'm talking about regular people, by all means far from professional in these areas.
As flat screens get bigger and cheaper, expectations get higher!
That may be... Do you have the original version. Can you upload it somewhere?
Blackout
Veteran
If you watched it on vimeo.... you think you watched it, but you didn't.. you were cheated. It's such a sadness...If you think you watched the hacked GH1.3s glory on your f&^#ng vimeo account.... :nads:
and yes I do have a huge file of it somewhere, Gunther where are you!?!? Chime in! Save your masterpiece from the evil clutches of the GH2 evil hoard!
Justyn
Veteran
Sounds like Blackout is seeing what he wants to see, or what he's hoping to see. Why not hold conclusions till it is out and people have the camera. I remember all of this mess about the HVX being so noisy it was unusable.... Once you got it and tweeked it, it wasn't as noisy and certainly decent enough to use. Now, by comparison it's like a sea of wiggly worms... but that's just how things are.
I also think that some of the fan boys calling the GH13 the best camera for under 10K were drinking the koolaid. It's not just about the end results but about the practicality and the process and how it interfaces with a person's shooting style and aethetics...
All in all, this is all just hot gas!
I also think that some of the fan boys calling the GH13 the best camera for under 10K were drinking the koolaid. It's not just about the end results but about the practicality and the process and how it interfaces with a person's shooting style and aethetics...
All in all, this is all just hot gas!
Blackout
Veteran
BTW that was HUMOR guys.. joke joke... I am playing.... reference to the David Lynch video..... really one must read this whole thread or one will be entirely lost and think one or the other of us is actually mean... so here.. where is that sign...
Blackout
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If I was seeing what I wanted to see, then I would be posting glowing reviews of the GH2, cause that's what I wanted to see... really and honestly... that's what I wanted to see. Again I don't think you read the whole thread and I don't blame you it's pretty insane at this point but I am not an 'anything' fanboy except of the best image for most economical cost fanboy. If you look at my old threads I went with a Canon 7D first and then sold it and got a GH1... I wasn't truly happy with either for a while but sometimes.. wow, could you get some magic. Then the hack came and everything changed. I can afford to buy 3 GH2s or 1 af-100 and some lenses... I have made more money with the GH1.3 than any other camera I have owned, it has paid for itself in spades. That being said, again, it has its issues, but at least to what I saw, its issues were less than the codec mud issues still present in the GH2 I played with. That's what I saw.. that's what I'm saying, all else is just play time I had no idea this thread would become so absolutely polarizing.... I am not a spy.... (well maybe I do have a top hat like the spy piece from stratego)...
Had I posted some over the top glowing review of the GH2 saying how it absolutely blew away the GH1.3 hack I would probably be being attacked for that by such GH1 fanboys... such is the nature of this place.
I posted my reviews of the original HVX200 and I did not like it, it WAS noisy, it was soft and smushy on the big screen, I did not like the odd way it got it's resolution or it's odd scaling and lack of true 1080p.... I then saw a vast improvement in the HVX200a and HPX170 and had those for a short time, but I have never been a fan of P2 and so I sold them (stupidly before the hack) but then post hack I found myself using the GH1.3 all the time, and every client has been happy. I have supported myself in NYC and saved up some money to do my own films... all is well in the world.
Should a camera come out tomorrow that is in the same price range and beats the GH1.3 image to my eyes and satisfaction.... then all three GH1.3s get sold and I buy whatever the hell brand that is. You can throw a lens on a 2X-L robot and record the image to 8-track tapes and I wouldn't care... if it produces a better 1080 24p image for the price or close, I'll buy it.
So I fart in your general direction mr hot gas, but tis a friendly fart, that smells of high bitrate and lacks any scent of mud.
- Blackout
Uwe Lansing
Veteran
Thank you richtrav! No mud at all. I suppose we´ll see some telling comparisons between GH1, GH13 and GH2 in a couple of weeks. What I saw so far: the 1080i50/60 mode has quite a lot of artifacts and mud. It seems that panny didnt´really change it. But the 1080p24p footage with 24mbps is definitely beating the GH1 and perhaps on par with the Gh13 - but without doubt we need more really good footage shot by guys who know what they are doing and of course with the right in-camera settings...
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