Finally saw GH2 footage first hand.. I am not upgrading. Staying with GH1.3

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Blackout said:
With all your lenses?

It never happens on a SanDisk extreme card but I don't want to spend the money. The transcend 32 and now 64 gig class 10s are such a better value.... the only time the lock up happens is with some strange bug on a completely locked shot of high detail with the pancake 20mm, never with the kit lens.... and it is very very rare.. has not happened to me in months either.
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Yes with all of my lenses... The difference though is that I don't have 24p checked. Once I turned this off I never had another error.

EDIT: Oh and I should note that I don't have the 20mm so maybe that's why.
 
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Cavemandude said:
Here we go again, blame it on the GH1's exclusive characteristic to have variable performing parts in it and not anything else that could be causing differences in performance. How about that nobody is ever shooting the same exact image (which is the main reason) and that there are fake SD cards out there that are slower than the real ones.

Randy
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I said "perhaps"

perhaps....

Don't jump down my throat. God everyone needs to stop being so touchy touchy here. It it obviously a combination of things that can cause this for some people while others rarely or never experience it. It can be variances in the camera build, variances in the cards.... I don't think it should have anything to do with the image because after you set your bitrate to the max and find out it works.. it works... yes yes I know there are some spikes in 24pn but I have been fine with them and the spikes to me don't effect image quality and the convenience of 24pn is SO important to me.
 
Blackout said:
Don't jump down my throat. God everyone needs to stop being so touchy touchy here. It it obviously a combination of things that can cause this for some people while others rarely or never experience it. It can be variances in the camera build, variances in the cards.... I don't think it should have anything to do with the image because after you set your bitrate to the max and find out it works.. it works... yes yes I know there are some spikes in 24pn but I have been fine with them and the spikes to me don't effect image quality and the convenience of 24pn is SO important to me.
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There are many "unknown unknows" when it comes to 24pN patch. We just don't know what makes it fall apart. Plain and simple. Specific patch setting values and their combination, amount of detail in the scene, type of motion (or lack thereof), type of cards used, type of lens used, focus mode employed all seem to have an effect. What we do know is that not enabling 24pN significantly increases reliability, which is why lpowell's AVCHD patches do not enable it.
 
svecher said:
There are many "unknown unknows" when it comes to 24pN patch. We just don't know what makes it fall apart. Plain and simple. Specific patch setting values and their combination, amount of detail in the scene, type of motion (or lack thereof), type of cards used, type of lens used, focus mode employed all seem to have an effect. What we do know is that not enabling 24pN significantly increases reliability, which is why lpowell's AVCHD patches do not enable it.
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Understandable - but it has been a GODSEND for me. I can't imagine going back to having to ALWAYS neoscene. For whatever reason I am not having any problems with it (knock on molded plastic). So whatever secret leprechauns that exist inside my camera where I am not having as many problems as others... let me buy them a drink.
 
Blackout said:
Understandable - but it has been a GODSEND for me. I can't imagine going back to having to ALWAYS neoscene. For whatever reason I am not having any problems with it (knock on molded plastic). So whatever secret leprechauns that exist inside my camera where I am not having as many problems as others... let me buy them a drink.
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from what I understand setting the gop to 2 will minimize 24pn anomalies(192 packets) but will increase freezes and crashes. can someone verify that.
 
Isaac that is an awesome post. let's see how people will slag this... Also from a credible source and not just opinons.
 
In blackouts defense, he could have just seen 24L mode (low bit rate) or just some footage from a bad preproduction unit.
 
dabeave said:
from what I understand setting the gop to 2 will minimize 24pn anomalies(192 packets) but will increase freezes and crashes. can someone verify that.
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In my testing, AVCHD GOP-lengths shorter than 3 were highly unstable. I was unable to find any combination of settings that would make the Native 24p patch work reliably. Even when 24pN videos record and play back without apparent error, they may nevertheless contain corrupted or empty frames which will make the video appear to pause briefly for their duration.

In my experience, the most troublesome component in the GH1 recording system is the SD card. The camera is sensitive to formatting and fragmentation of the card's memory map. I'd recommend using the GH1 to do a fresh format of each SD card before every critical shoot. When reliability is a serious concern, use only the highest quality SD cards you can find and verify.
 
Isaac is so right about opinions. That's the state of news today and hence this forum. Maybe it's the rise of the blog that's also contributed to this effect. Either way, it's nice to see Hunter's stills and get more proof that Barry has been right. I still have to defend the 150 to people as if I haven't shot with it for 2 years and never really ran into any serious issues other than my own user errors...

Life will be a bit nicer when all of these opinions are put to rest and it's time for footage examples and such. It's also so speculative when people are watching things on mac monitors. If I were to do an image assesment it wouldn't be with jsut a plain computer monitor or my laptop screen.... but that's digressing.
 
Guys, as I said, if I were allowed to have taken the footage with me I would have. I was not. The wide shots of native clips I posted on here for everyone to see are not 'opinions' they are native .MTS files from the gh1.3 jobless d setting hack with 24pn checked, and most everyone was blown away with the city scenes... well I did the same thing in central park, and in my eyes it was not 'opinion' to me.. AT THE TIME of my tests - whatever GH2 I had definitely was muddy in a lot of areas and the GH1.3 was not... I just had no way of proving it to you, but the other GH2 clips that were posted did show a lot of problems with high amounts of movement and corroborated what I had seen.

That being said, panasonic delayed the GH2 release... I saw the other thread... and while it is only stills, and it has been processed through another codec which I really don't like, I want to see the native files and I want to see them in full motion - the other test does look good. So perhaps I did have a preproduction model and things have been improved, but the negative tone about it has never been needed. As I said... when the thing really comes out, if it's really better than the hacked GH1.3 under the circumstances I need it for I just buy it. There was and there IS no need to get upset or defensive about what I wrote - it was done in good spirits to report on what I experienced. The title of the post was "I finally saw the GH2 with my own eyes and I (important word) I.... am not upgrading.. staying with gh1.3"

The title was not "GH2 is crap, absolutely - you , and no one else should upgrade" I told no one what to do, I said what I experienced and what I thought at the time of my experience, and that's the best any of us can do.

I really hope the GH2 blows my GH1.3 out of the water, why would anyone hope for less image quality? Plus.. the cam is cheap! I could buy it no problem, so my observations were not based on 'me wanting my hacked gh1's to be better cause that's what I currently have." I have no brand loyalty whatsoever... I have quality loyalty.

So you can sit here and "I told you so" all you want if it makes you feel better. I was reporting on what I saw, and what I experienced, AT THE TIME.. this is now almost a month later.... in this current world things change at the speed of thought.

I still really want to see the native files though... stills don't do it for me, but they do look promising.

- Blackout
 
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You posted GH13 files, and yes they look good but that's already a given. The problem is that you strongly defended with no GH2 footage for people to make their own opinion. I am just trying to put a little more balance into this 36 page thread until more footage and further comparisons crop up. I have gotten great footage out of my GH13, but I am open minded and if I can get great stuff from the GH2 with audio meters and HDMI I will snag one when they're available.
 
Isaac_Brody said:
You posted GH13 files, and yes they look good but that's already a given. The problem is that you strongly defended with no GH2 footage for people to make their own opinion. I am just trying to put a little more balance into this 36 page thread until more footage and further comparisons crop up. I have gotten great footage out of my GH13, but I am open minded and if I can get great stuff from the GH2 with audio meters and HDMI I will snag one when they're available.
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No more good is going to come from this thread therefore I am locking it. Oh wait....
 
I am open minded too....if the GH2 is better I'll be the first to say it. It did look better in just locked down shots and I did post that. Also, just because something is a GH13 file - it is not a given that it will look good! I have seen plenty of crap GH1.3 hack files... Hack doesn't = instant greatness... you can put all sorts of horrible numbers in there and do damage and also, you have to know how to shoot and set up the camera on top of that.

I know it would have been super duper cool if I could have posted the GH2 files up as well but they would not let me put my own card in or take the files. Those were the rules... so maybe it was a pre production model and that's why. I asked this, but I was not told a definite answer.

The test in the other thread looks promising but it also looks off to me... I have stills from my GH1.3 and they are super sharp.... while those almost look blurry...

Again... please tell him to post up the NATIVE files of each camera to let everyone see with their own eyes natively. Prores and the process of extracting stills alters the image.
 
Justyn said:
Isaac is so right about opinions... Either way, it's nice to see Hunter's stills and get more proof that Barry has been right.
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Indeed, but I think it's a bit premature to take Hunter's stills as "proof" of your's or anyone else's opinions. In my view, the problems I pointed out in Hunter's tests invalidate any conclusion one might draw at this point:

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?230620-GH2-Tests-%28with-a-gh13-perspective%29&p=2174519&viewfull=1#post2174519
 
hunter richards said:
In blackouts defense, he could have just seen 24L mode (low bit rate) or just some footage from a bad preproduction unit.
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Hunter... please, for the love of corndogs, if you actually have both cameras please post the native files of both of them so we can all see. If you e-mail them to me I will host them and pay for the ridiculous amount of bandwidth they will get hit with as everyone here downloads them. How did you get your GH2? I was not allowed to take it home or take my own SD card home. Obviously you were...
 
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