LOL! Mainstreetprod, cheers. I might just do that.
Just came back from Vitaly. I think we're going to
skype to try and hash this out.
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FINALLY!! AF100 HACK Pledge
- Thread starter dtzfilms
- Start date
LOL! Mainstreetprod, cheers. I might just do that.
Just came back from Vitaly. I think we're going to
skype to try and hash this out.
BobbyMurcerFan
Well-known member
That is the most amazing thing I've read in a long time!
Well, thank you BobbyMurcerFan!
You're not a literary agent by any chance?
I write Science Fiction Scripts and novels and I own a camera! LOL!
Pot now at $8,450.
What's it worth to you?
What's a hack worth?
electricpig
Well-known member
So I'd like to replace it with custom clip names.
pretty please...
Shooter
Veteran
Interesting and amusing how the thrust of the pledge thread is to raise a pile of money to appeal to someone who (assumedly/allegedly) has anti capitalistic motives!
Is it only me who sees this as ironical?
I sincerely hope you guys are successful but my interest is purely academic.
I am happy with what I work with (AF102) and the choices I have to fill in any deficiencies if they arise.
Is it only me who sees this as ironical?
I sincerely hope you guys are successful but my interest is purely academic.
I am happy with what I work with (AF102) and the choices I have to fill in any deficiencies if they arise.
Well said, Shooter. It is somewhat ironic. I think a lot of people are happy but would be happieR. Including yours truly. That's why I don't have a Samurai! I'm happy, but I take umbrage that my GH2 is crapping on my AF100.
I was told that VK said it would have cost Panny $2 in hardware to make the AF100 100Mbs capable and shooting to SD cards while Panny said it'd be $10,000.
Apparently, as I was told by a valued member here, the GH2 hack was somewhat intended to expose the prestidigitation on Panny's part.
I mean seriously, would you not love it if this puppy that you're happy with actually shot AVC-Intra 50 and 100??? Nah, they had to make that seem as if AVC-Intra was the sole domain of P2.
There's so much knowledge out here. From a PM, I just responded to, I've been given a glimpse of the road ahead, and should VK accept, we'll be able to avoid some pitfalls that were encountered during the GH2 hack. I'm going to let that person come forward and share it themselves though. It's valuable information and it's only befitting that we hear it from that insider.
I was told that VK said it would have cost Panny $2 in hardware to make the AF100 100Mbs capable and shooting to SD cards while Panny said it'd be $10,000.
Apparently, as I was told by a valued member here, the GH2 hack was somewhat intended to expose the prestidigitation on Panny's part.
I mean seriously, would you not love it if this puppy that you're happy with actually shot AVC-Intra 50 and 100??? Nah, they had to make that seem as if AVC-Intra was the sole domain of P2.
There's so much knowledge out here. From a PM, I just responded to, I've been given a glimpse of the road ahead, and should VK accept, we'll be able to avoid some pitfalls that were encountered during the GH2 hack. I'm going to let that person come forward and share it themselves though. It's valuable information and it's only befitting that we hear it from that insider.
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lol, you're right!
However, from what I gather from the GH1 (after encryption) and GH2 hacking history, it takes 2 Bodies (at least) to get the hack developement to actually start.
1) This body is a doner, it is taken apart, and the chips are analyzed, and the actual firmware ROM is pulled off and dumped.
2) This body is actually used for firmware developement and testing
Buying two AF100's costs money, even if you were to get two for $3000, that's $6k, Vitaley also needs money to live, either by working like the rest of us, or by hacking and having his life costs covered. He doesn't seem to be in it to get rich...
And anyone who is "getting thier hopes up", has to realize that even if you were to drop two AF100's off at his door step (which would be a must before he would even start looking at it), then there is no guarentees you would see anything for a LONG time. Consider this, the GH2 hack took how long to get to where it is now? That was after much developement on the GH1 after it was encrypted, which gave a starting point for GH2 hacks. The GH3 is nearly announced, and we're just starting to see the potential of the GH2. Also realize that Vitaley has a priority list of hacks that he's been looking at, the GF2 was the most recent, and I believe the GF3 is next on the list. He might be looking at the GX1 next as well. These are less work since a lot of the existing work can be built upon.
The AF100 is how old now, and he would likely have to start from scratch. Not only that, but there will be less assistance from the community for developeing the patches (settings) like there is with the GH2, cbrandin, driftood, etc... all spent countless hours trying to find stable settings that we all use today. Many of the advances came from not just tinkering but much research in AVC encoding and output testing.
Also, for people who think that they might get punch in focus assist, or 10bit. I wouldn't get your hopes up at all. All the Panasonic hacks to this point have all been tweaks of functions/data that already existed in the firmware. If there is an internal toggle that hasn't been enabled, that is able to be found for punch in, or 10bit, it may be found. If not, fat chance. This isn't magic lantern....
As for 4-2-2, maybe it's possible, afterall, it was possible on the GH-1, but in mjpg mode only, the AF100 only has one codec, and with it could come many limitations. I-frame is likely possible, higher bitrates for sure.
Oh, and one final thing, the GH2's hacks were amazing becuase not only did you get rid of compression mud, but it made the image so much more detailed. As someone else mentioned, the AF100 has a built in filter that optically softens the image, so don't expect the same imaging detail as the GH2 even if it were hacked. What you could expect would be less artifacting, better shadow detail, maybe less color banding, maybe smoother motion, maybe some more settings for tonal curve.
However, I'd love to see the hack done, just to see it's full potential, I dreamed of an AF100 years before it was announced. I just feel the AF200 may come along long before a hack that's stable enough to use in a professional enviroment, and it will take more than just $$ to get there, it will take many of you testing unstable settings as well.
And there we have it.
What it's going to take has become more distinct.
2 AF100s plus sustenance for VK or whoever decides to take on this project.
This is going to take $10,000+.
Two AFs shipped.
There was no way anyone was going to just jump in and do this on their own.
The first thing we've done here is show interest, that's our first accomplishment.
Congratulations. We'll see what happens next. I"ll keep us posted.
Keep those pledges coming though. We need them.
What's it worth?
What's this hack worth to you?
PS.
For very crucial information please send me an email to dtzfilms@gmail.com
What it's going to take has become more distinct.
2 AF100s plus sustenance for VK or whoever decides to take on this project.
This is going to take $10,000+.
Two AFs shipped.
There was no way anyone was going to just jump in and do this on their own.
The first thing we've done here is show interest, that's our first accomplishment.
Congratulations. We'll see what happens next. I"ll keep us posted.
Keep those pledges coming though. We need them.
What's it worth?
What's this hack worth to you?
PS.
For very crucial information please send me an email to dtzfilms@gmail.com
Panasonic said that the hack on the AF100 cannot be done because of the lack of a pathway to the components in question.
If they are so sure, why don't they supply Vitaly with 2 AF100 and we will pay him for the work. If they are right, it will cost them next to nothing to give Vitaly the AF100's, but if they know it can be done, of course they never will.
If they are so sure, why don't they supply Vitaly with 2 AF100 and we will pay him for the work. If they are right, it will cost them next to nothing to give Vitaly the AF100's, but if they know it can be done, of course they never will.
Allan Black
Veteran
None of the majors would do anything like that, it'd stuff up their 'trickle down technology' routine.
Cheers.
Very good point, Kenny_G, very good point.
So far here's how it stands:
1. Should Vitaly agree to come onboard - there'll be no laundry lists, shopping lists, etc.
I've been advised that it's insulting. We're trying to drag a reluctant horse to drink. Most likely the only
guarantee we may have, in the event of a successful hack, is an increased bitrate which in turn
would then indirectly cure the few limitations of the AF100. In essence the best we can hope for might be 50-100Mbs
2. It's highly unlikely that Panasonic will give Vitaly anything. They're not like Subaru giving Ali Afshar a bunch of Subarus STIs to go and modify.
The Impreza WRX STI was subaru's fastest/flagship - improvement on that increased Subie's stock, as does the GTR35 Nissan's. Unfortunately,
the AF100, though "revolutionary," is not Panny's flagship. If it could be improved without destroying their planned timelines, they'd probably
give VK their blessing in the form of deux AF100s. But as it has been intimated by a well-informed member here, the companies have colluded to
create a bottle-neck of sorts to enable them to sell higher end products with a "professional" badge. So it all comes down to this: for this to go anywhere,
we, yes WE, we have to get two AF100s to Vitaly, plus lunch money and a doctor's note. They have to be bought here in the US and shipped to him.
Are we willing, prepared and ready to do that?
The discussion about how to forward donations to VK are ongoing at the moment. I believe we have a solution but until we get a positive response from VK, it's pointless taking that to the next step. Let me just say, that's the least of our worries.
In short, I need to know what we're willing to do. I can't go in and say yes, we're willing and able to give 2 AF100s and lunch money, unless we truly are. We go in knowing the risk. We go in knowing that some of the things we wish for may not be possible.
I can almost bet that without the hack, the AF200 will, when it comes out, have AVC-Intra 50-100, 4:2:2. 10 bit. I said "almost."
With the hack, I'm dead sure, that'll be the starting point of new features on the AF200. There'll have to be a response to lure AF100 users into upgrading.
So that's what's at stake. Beefing up our current camera, and possibly influencing the successor.
That's how it stands.
Do we go quietly into the night? Or do we push forward in this unified front??
What's this worth? Please chime in, shall we proceed?
It's up to us, the few, the proud, LOL, the AF100 Marines!!
So far here's how it stands:
1. Should Vitaly agree to come onboard - there'll be no laundry lists, shopping lists, etc.
I've been advised that it's insulting. We're trying to drag a reluctant horse to drink. Most likely the only
guarantee we may have, in the event of a successful hack, is an increased bitrate which in turn
would then indirectly cure the few limitations of the AF100. In essence the best we can hope for might be 50-100Mbs
2. It's highly unlikely that Panasonic will give Vitaly anything. They're not like Subaru giving Ali Afshar a bunch of Subarus STIs to go and modify.
The Impreza WRX STI was subaru's fastest/flagship - improvement on that increased Subie's stock, as does the GTR35 Nissan's. Unfortunately,
the AF100, though "revolutionary," is not Panny's flagship. If it could be improved without destroying their planned timelines, they'd probably
give VK their blessing in the form of deux AF100s. But as it has been intimated by a well-informed member here, the companies have colluded to
create a bottle-neck of sorts to enable them to sell higher end products with a "professional" badge. So it all comes down to this: for this to go anywhere,
we, yes WE, we have to get two AF100s to Vitaly, plus lunch money and a doctor's note. They have to be bought here in the US and shipped to him.
Are we willing, prepared and ready to do that?
The discussion about how to forward donations to VK are ongoing at the moment. I believe we have a solution but until we get a positive response from VK, it's pointless taking that to the next step. Let me just say, that's the least of our worries.
In short, I need to know what we're willing to do. I can't go in and say yes, we're willing and able to give 2 AF100s and lunch money, unless we truly are. We go in knowing the risk. We go in knowing that some of the things we wish for may not be possible.
I can almost bet that without the hack, the AF200 will, when it comes out, have AVC-Intra 50-100, 4:2:2. 10 bit. I said "almost."
With the hack, I'm dead sure, that'll be the starting point of new features on the AF200. There'll have to be a response to lure AF100 users into upgrading.
So that's what's at stake. Beefing up our current camera, and possibly influencing the successor.
That's how it stands.
Do we go quietly into the night? Or do we push forward in this unified front??
What's this worth? Please chime in, shall we proceed?
It's up to us, the few, the proud, LOL, the AF100 Marines!!
Shooter
Veteran
Makes the bitrate specs on a real live Samurai look pretty impressive... if thats all you are expecting of a hacked AF100.
Not sure what the "indirect cure of the few AF100 limitations" means though?
http://atomos.com/samurai/techspecs.xml
10-bit AVC-Intra at 4k and up to 120fps on Class 6 SD cards, 14 stops of DR, 20 hours of battery life, and a 1.5 crop compared to full frame.
rogar-Evil(DBG):Read between the lines. The purpose of my post was to, on the one hand, encourage us, yet on the other, temper our expectations.
David W. Jones
Veteran
Ahh, good cop bad cop. See it on law and order all the time. Think I'll lawyer up now.
That sounds anemic enough. 100Mbps is barely enough bitrate for 4:2:0 8-bit GOP-1 on the GH2. But I do wish you wouldn't suggest (to Panasonic, or anyone else listening) that AVC-Intra 50 would be acceptable on an updated AF100. The last thing I'd want to see is a downgrade to 1440x1080 HDV resolution!
LOL! Maybe it does sound anemic, I wouldn't know. Again, the purpose of the post was to keep expectations from running wild. But I won't mention it, if you won't,
- I'm not qualified for that gobble-de-gook stuff. I'm just a writer with a camera that I like lot but like a little less with my GH2 on hand, LOL! But I'll come out and play...What you can tag onto that is this: the AF200 will have at least "a minimum" of AVC-Intra 50-100. Possibly go on to AVC-Intra 200? How's that sound? Will whatever comes be enough for everyone? I doubt you're gonna be happy with whatever comes out, lpowell. We currently have 24Mps, right? Is that half 1440x1080 HDV resolution? I don't know. Dunno, but even now, a certain percentage of folk are happy with 24Mbs and don't care to hack. All I'm saying is that there'd be even more people who would be happy if the current AF100 had come out with AVC-Intra 50/100. Isn't that double and good enough for web destined projects? And isn't the AVC-Intra 100 on the HPX250 possibly good enough, as extolled, for chromakey and theatrical release projects? I'm sure I read that somewhere. And I'm willing to bet the successor to the AF100 won't come out with anything less, and possibly MORE, especially if we succeed in hacking this darling. Not everyone is going to be pleased, lpowell. But no, I'm not prescribing AVC-Intra 50 as enough, lol.
All I need to know now is if I we're all onboard with getting 2 AF100s and lunch money. I know that, boom, I'll carry on taking the advice I'm getting in emails and PMs to carry on with the campaign.
Matter of fact, it might be better to just go ahead and operate with the implied consent of the positive posters and should VK agree, we take it from there and raise the ducats, right?
And do give allowances, I'm not at all qualified to peep and rate and rave about what's good, so expect errors but let's keep the thread on track, get the hack.
I'll drop by VK's doorstep tomorrow. He hasn't said yes or no yet. So... I guess, if we get him to "name his price," we take it from there.
Thanks for the emails and the PMs. Cheers.
Chime in.
Rolf Silber
Veteran
10-bit AVC-Intra at 4k and up to 120fps on Class 6 SD cards, 14 stops of DR, 20 hours of battery life, and a 1.5 crop compared to full frame.
Only acceptable if it produces a good espresso too.....
the reason id hack my gh2 is because its avchd implementation is incomplete. it doesnt have cabac.
af100 on the other hand has a completely implemented avchd codec. if i wanted something from the af100 it would be something significant like 4:2:2 which imo has small chance of happening.
af100 on the other hand has a completely implemented avchd codec. if i wanted something from the af100 it would be something significant like 4:2:2 which imo has small chance of happening.
Shooter
Veteran
@dtzfilms
You appear to be confusing bitrate and resolution. (in your response to Ipowell)
High bitrate and high resolution are both related to high Image Quality... but they are independent of each other..until they come together as a data file. The combination of both will accrue into file size... and that is where compression becomes a factor.
You state that you wish to keep expectations of any AF100 hack realistic but then you continue to speculate what a hypothetical AF200 will offer with some degree of certainty. You have even lowered your own expectation of what the hack may achieve.
Sorry but... (and with all due respect) ...I now think this entire thread is becoming a figment of your imagination as to need for it and a degree of obsessive compulsiveness for something outside the realms of the purpose and design of the more than capable AF100.
You appear to be confusing bitrate and resolution. (in your response to Ipowell)
High bitrate and high resolution are both related to high Image Quality... but they are independent of each other..until they come together as a data file. The combination of both will accrue into file size... and that is where compression becomes a factor.
You state that you wish to keep expectations of any AF100 hack realistic but then you continue to speculate what a hypothetical AF200 will offer with some degree of certainty. You have even lowered your own expectation of what the hack may achieve.
Sorry but... (and with all due respect) ...I now think this entire thread is becoming a figment of your imagination as to need for it and a degree of obsessive compulsiveness for something outside the realms of the purpose and design of the more than capable AF100.