Filter Question - New in HDSLR video.

L

linx

New member
First of all hello. I am thinking of buying some ND filters for my 5DmkIII to start playing with video apart from stills and check out the ML Raw video capabilities. I own two lenses 24-105mm/f4.0L and 50mm/f1.2L and plan on buying the 70-200mm/f2.8L II. I was thinking about the Lee (or another) holder system with Tiffen's Water White filters (if that is even possible). The other option, as someone else noted (which is less expensive too) is to get the 77mm Tiffen WW (the HV indie kit most probably) screw ins, which fit my 24-105 and a wide variety other Canon L lenses, and use step up/down rings for the rest.

I was thinking about the screw ins because they are far easier to use, less bulky and cheaper but I'm worried about vignetting and other issues with the step up/down rings. I don't want to compromise image quality. While the filters with the holder system can be used on all lenses both current and future ones, can be stacked/used along with a polarizer and can be used with GND if I ever need it.

What's your opinion on this and if you have another suggestion for a holder system or filters please explain. I don't want a variable ND filter. Thanks in advance.



P.S. The budget for now is a bit tight ~500 euros but I put quality and longevity over price so a costlier alternative, if better, would definitely be my choice. Since I haven't ever considered cinematography and video in general before, you can state other options or alternatives I might have not even thought about.
P.S.2. Even though I am looking for 5dIII specific advice I think filters are not camera-dependent and that's why I post this question in General/Other, if it's better suited in Canon FF feel free to move it.
 
linx said:
The other option, as someone else noted (which is less expensive too) is to get the 77mm Tiffen WW (the HV indie kit most probably) screw ins, which fit my 24-105 and a wide variety other Canon L lenses, and use step up/down rings for the rest.
Click to expand...

I'd prefer this method so you can still use your lens hoods on the 70-200 and 24-105.
 
The lee system is a mile faster.

If you have a receiver ring on each lens you just pop the filter and box across in seconds - its a very impressive system (if you can source all the bits!)

Also the bellows if you spend out for that will shade the lens better.

One note on 77mm filters and canon - the new 16-35 is 82mm!

If you go for round filters certainly get to cover your biggest lens and step down rings for the rest.

The full lee system is this.. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...5_VH_85_Bellowed_Video_Hood_Filterholder.html

S
 
Last edited:
As long as you don't go for super-cheap resin filters or for not-super-expensive variable NDs, you're probably going to be ok. After exploring both those routes, I ended up with cheap Tiffen screw-ins (not even WW), and I'm very happy with them: painful to use, but IQ is fine (just a green cast that is easy to get rid of with custom WB)
http://www.similaar.com/foto/lenstests/lenstestsn.html
 
Sam - I agree with you conclusions that any solid glass ND seems OK - I just hate 'screwing around' on set and that is where the clip on system comes to the fore. Sam :)
 
That is fine if you are onboard with all the screwing.

Remember with a lens like the 16-35 it will probably vignette used with a step-down filter and a FULL FRAME camera

You can generally do a step down when using a fullframe lens on an S35/APS camera because the edge of the image is not used

S
 
I already own the 5dIII so the only suggestions I would like to receive would be for that model of camera. Other than that I would like the best image quality so I'm open for suggestions.
 
You mentioned that PB says 'step downs work' - I would be wary of that statement with a FF camera. That's all.

If you are only ever going to use 77 or smaller lenses then the kit you linked is perfect.

The far more expensive Lee filter system (a clip on matte box and 4X4 filters) will be quicker to change lenses than unscrewing a filter thread, but the image will be no better no worse.

S
 
morgan_moore said:
The far more expensive Lee filter system (a clip on matte box and 4X4 filters) will be quicker to change lenses than unscrewing a filter thread, but the image will be no better no worse.
Click to expand...

Not to disagree with Sam as he is correct that the drop in systems are faster to swap filters, but you may want to consider your own working style and the type of locations you'll be shooting. If you're doing more run and gun and trying to travel light and be unobtrusive, the matte boxes may be too bulky to carry and draw attention. It's not that one is wrong or right, just that it will ultimately depend on your situation. Horses for courses and all that.
 
As far as I see it, both solutions have their supporters so it's really hard deciding. I'll probably go for the screw ins for a "near future" solution and later on consider the matte box a holding system or something else. The question was mostly to avoid buying one then needing the other but as I see it, both have their uses. Other than which solution to go for would you have any recommendations about ND filters and/or holding systems?
 
When it comes to screw-in filters, you're really asking for trouble. If you're buying expensive screw-in filters, you're asking for trouble and loads of heartache.

The reason: crossed threads.

It happens with all filters, and sooner or later-- whether you're in a rush, or just didn't notice the speck of dust in the filter threads before you screwed it on-- it'll happen to you.

Sometimes you can unstick filters fused to your lens (or another filter) using various methods involving freezers, rubber bands, and black magic. You will experience indescribable joy when a stuck filter releases it's grip.

Other times, you'll ultimately have no other choice than to take a hacksaw and hammer to the stuck filter(s). You will swear off using filters every time this happens (yes, more than once).


That's not to say that you're way better off with 4x4 filters. You have the extra bulk of a mattebox (which usually means rods or extra weight hanging off the front of your lens), filter trays, and you'll have to pay extra special attention to handling full panes of glass (no filter housing to hold on to).


Some photographers say they shoot only with a naked lens, claiming it's for optimal image quality, but I think the real reason is to avoid the headache of having to deal with filters in the first place.

***

The truth is filters can be useful (especially NDs for video), so I ended up getting a set of 77mm Tiffen screw-in NDs. Yep, the ones that will one day get stuck on my lens.

After losing a CPL (thankfully not a very expensive one) to a speck of dust in the threads, I got a set of Xume magnetic adapters and immediately put an adapter on every one of my filters. It's not the cheapest solution, but I like it for three main reasons:


  1. No chance of crossed threads
  2. Maintains low bulk benefits of screw-in filters (over 4x4 filters + mattebox)
  3. Super fast to add and remove from lenses.

The magnets are strong enough to handle pretty much any filter and you can even stack filters up to a point (I'm guessing the magnets will give out if you stack too many filters).

In the past, I had filters, but hated to use them because I would have to go off to some corner while I screwed filters on. If it was just for a couple shots, it definitely wasn't worth it and I'd look for alternatives or just pass on the shot altogether. With the magnetic adapters, I can get the filters on and off really quickly, it's almost painless.

I'm not affiliated with Xume, just happy that I found a solution that works. If you go with screw-ins, get the adapters.
 
After all I decided to buy this Tiffen HV WW indie kit which is on sale for about 150 euro as a starting point. See how it goes from there and later decide on a matte box or a filter holder system. I'll definitely look into those Xume magnets. Seems quite flexible.
 
The Xume system is one of my favorite things I've ever bought. It is just ingenious.
My biggest recommendation, is to get the biggest screw in filter size you can. Then
step your lenses up to that size. I went with 82mm ND filters. Then bought 82mm Xume
lens adapters for all my lenses and 82mm filter holders for my filters. It is cheap and easy
to buy step up rings. Because the Xume system introduces 2 two extra rings, you can
get vignetting on wide angle lenses, hence the need for the biggest NDs you can find.
 
Jive said:
The reason: crossed threads.

It happens with all filters, and sooner or later-- whether you're in a rush, or just didn't notice the speck of dust in the filter threads before you screwed it on-- it'll happen to you.
Click to expand...

That Xume thing looks pretty cool.
I've been shooting since, well, before a lot of the current hot shots were even born, and I've yet to cross the threads on a filter (knock on wood). One guy I used to shoot with would overcrank the filter and have to use filter wrenches to get them off and even broke the bottom off a camera by over tightening the tripod plate. I guess it depends on your mechanical aptitude.
 
If you're having all that trouble with screw-in filters, you're doing something wrong. Probably, screwing them in too hard. They don't need to be strongly secured, just secured, they're not going anywhere.
Don't get me wrong, I hate screwing filters in, but I won't need anything with lower IQ, and a matte box is too big and too expensive for me, so I'll just have to live with that.

Except... xume what?? wow that's a neat solution
http://www.xumeadapters.com/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6HvQOozNg8
Still not perfect, though: this effectively doubles the width of each filter, so you'll be more likely to get vignetting. Specially if you're stacking filters, which I do relatively often (I need 6 steps of ND to shoot ISO 100 f/2.8 1/50s on a bright day, 8 if I want to go f/1.4 for some reason, and that usually means 1.2+0.6 or 1.2+0.9+0.3, which would vignette on just about any lens if you're using xume; you can solve this by buying stronger filters: with a 1.8 in the kit I could do f/2.8 with just one filter, and anything else with just two).

edit:
also: expensive! at $30 per lens plus $10 per filter, I'd be looking at $160 even if I'm ready to choose before the shoot which 4 lenses I want to get an adapter on. And I'm using 67mm filters, bigger ones are more expensive.
makes stacking filters even less of a solution, too, since you'd need another $30 adapter to be able to do that; so I would need to buy a 1.8 and $170 in xune gear; unlikely

edit2: or I could just get one lens adapter and 5 filter adapters (total $80) and a 1.8 filter, and consider "change screw-in adapter" as one more step of a lens change...
I'm getting a 3D printer in the coming months, will probably play "mini-matte-box designer" at some point
 
Last edited:
Samuel H said:
If you're having all that trouble with screw-in filters, you're doing something wrong.
Click to expand...

Ok - go out it minus 10, put on some gloves, it is the end of the day, the director is behind on the shot list, the light is going fast, pressure pressure pressure. If you can screw perfectly in such conditions you are a very cool cat indeed.

A set is not a lab.
 
I was looking for Tiffen Water White ND 82mm screw ins but I don't think there are other than the 77mm and in "panavision" size.
 
morgan_moore said:
Ok - go out it minus 10, put on some gloves, it is the end of the day, the director is behind on the shot list, the light is going fast, pressure pressure pressure. If you can screw perfectly in such conditions you are a very cool cat indeed.

A set is not a lab.
Click to expand...

OK, minus 10 does not happen often here in Spain, I'll give you that :)
 
I own both matte box with slide in filters, as well as screw on filters, and each type has their place. But, after over 35 years of using screw on filters, I have never cross threaded one. Asking for trouble? Please.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top