Filmschool Rant...

I'm not saying it's for everybody. I'm saying that most people I see who never went to college, seem to end up working at Burger King the rest of their lives.

As others have said, that silly piece of paper is indeed very important in today's world. Is that a good thing? Not really. But it's the truth.
 
This is off topic, but the reason why so many people who never went to college wind up working in menial, low-pay jobs is because we live in an all-or-nothing society. There is no viable third option for most people. I have been an educational advocate for years, and there is no doubt in my mind that, as a whole our educational system is set up to cater to what is considered "the norm". If you do not fit into that mold, you are cast aside. We teach conformity and standardization in an environment where true rewards come from innovation and creativity.

People who do not attend college are often looked down upon as being ignorant or stupid, but that is not always the case. It is often just that they have only two options (college or blue collar work), when neither is a good fit for them.

Some of the smartest, most effective and creative people I know never went to college. Some of the most obtuse, ignorant and ineffective people I know have walls papered with degrees.

I am not naive, and I know that our society rewards that precious and often over-rated piece of paper. I also know that, despite that, there are people who are better off putting that four years into something else.
 
Don't ignore technical academies. Automotive mechanics, Heating/AC technicians, lab techs, nurses and a host of other moderate- to well-paid occupations train via systems that sort of exist outside the all-or-nothing paradigm.
 
I'm about to graduate high school, and I'm not going to college.

I want to pursue film. I've been working for pay since my freshman year in high school in film/video and I've never been asked about a college degree. I can't imagine that as my resume grows, my (lack of) college diploma will become more important.

We've all heard of the famous directors who didn't go to film school. Sure, there are just as many who did go to film school, but the point is that there is no correlation between film school and successful filmmaking.

My decision really just came down to, "Will I make more progress in film school or outside of film school?" I decided I can make more progress outside. Most of the time when I'm talking with somebody who thinks I'm an idiot for not going to college, their main argument is either, "Everybody goes to college; only losers don't," or "You're going to be missing out on a ton of partying!"
 
Only one boss has ever asked me where I went to school. And oddly enough, he is someone for whom I don't plan to work, again.
 
I don't think you need to go to college, but I think that if you don't go and get some type of paper in something you might be hurting yourself. As example, our gaffer (though she works as a 1st AC most of the time). She had experience, she just didn't have the connections and couldn't get through many doors prior to getting a two year degree.

Just saying.

But at the same time, a lot of current grads are struggling to get a job too. So where does it balance out. Also, if film goes south and you can't make money there, where do you go?
 
Sad Max said:
Don't ignore technical academies. Automotive mechanics, Heating/AC technicians, lab techs, nurses and a host of other moderate- to well-paid occupations train via systems that sort of exist outside the all-or-nothing paradigm.
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I completely agree that those avenues exist. But I also think that they are often viewed as secondary choices. Meaning that the people who go to them are not viewed as smart people who chose those paths, but people who went there because they 'couldn't hack' college.

It's also interesting to me that a guy who got a degree, wears a suit and works as a corporate functionary is usually viewed as more of a success than someone who works with his hands. Often times the people who go to tech schools are incredibly bright, but they are hands-on learners who just don't do well in a university setting.
 
I graduated with a liberal studies degree about a year ago, but decided to be an editor. One year later, I decided to move on from editor to full fledged filmmaker.

It's funny how I decided to move on to films AFTER I graduated college.
 
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Jim Brennan said:
I completely agree that those avenues exist. But I also think that they are often viewed as secondary choices. Meaning that the people who go to them are not viewed as smart people who chose those paths, but people who went there because they 'couldn't hack' college.

It's also interesting to me that a guy who got a degree, wears a suit and works as a corporate functionary is usually viewed as more of a success than someone who works with his hands. Often times the people who go to tech schools are incredibly bright, but they are hands-on learners who just don't do well in a university setting.
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...or their interests just don't demand it. If I want to be a professional auto mechanic, why would I pursue that at a four-year college?
 
I've worked with 2 different people who graduated from NYU film school that didn't know sh*t... and I mean NOT SH*T... I'm talking stuff like "that 9' graphite pole is way too heavy... we'll use my 4' aluminum pole"...

Stuff like that... which of course... results in total disaster...

I've worked with guys that went to film-school who don't even know how or WHY to WB the cam...

I agree with Hudson... the best school is on a set. Get on the best projects you can... even for free... and stay out of the way as you do what you're told... and then use your eyes and ears to get the best [free] education you ever could.
 
Sad Max said:
Yeah. The idea that everybody ought to do a 4-year undergrad program is actually kind of pernicious.
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Pernicious: an SAT vocabulary word if I ever saw one.

But just to chime in here, I believe that the gist of this thread is reinforcing Howard Gardner's Theory of Multiple Intelligences. First developed in '83, educators have only begun to tap into its potential. Worksheets, lectures and textbooks don't work for everybody.

His eight areas of intelligence are:
Linguistic intelligence ("word smart"):
Logical-mathematical intelligence ("number/reasoning smart")
Spatial intelligence ("picture smart")
Bodily-Kinesthetic intelligence ("body smart")
Musical intelligence ("music smart")
Interpersonal intelligence ("people smart")
Intrapersonal intelligence ("self smart")
Naturalist intelligence ("nature smart")

A good filmmaker probably needs at least some strength in all eight areas.
 
Differentiated learning styles is something that mainstream education is only beginning to latch on to. I go to a national conference on Inclusive Education every year, and so many of those strategies are simple and concrete. But they are not widely embraced by an entrenched generation of teachers and administrators.

TheMacB said:
I love this.
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I heard that from a multi millionaire who never finished 6th grade. He made the comment when telling the story of his son's teacher being outraged that he was going to pull the kid out of school for week to go with him on a business trip to Europe.


I am not against college or film school. I actually worked with guys from the Colorado Film School last Spring and Summer that knew their way around a set. You just have to know what you want, then determine what the best way is for you (with your skills, strengths and weaknesses) to achieve that. If college is a part of that, great. Just don't do it because you think you're supposed to.
 
I respectfully disagree with the "school isn't for everyone" saying. There are so many options, different schools, ways of teaching, ways of learning, 4 yr schools, 2 yrs schools, part time schools, online schools. There is something for everyone and nothing to hold you back but yourself.

Yes, people can go through a VERY successful life and never have gotten a degree, but you just cut your odds down to reaching that goal. Say, heaven for bid, film doesn't work out for you, you have your degree to fall back on. I have seen people that truly deserve a promotion but don't qualify because someone has a degree and was working there 2 years less than you. I am currently working with someone who can't get a pay raise because he doesn't have a degree (no joke and yes it’s a film job). Now he is at school part time to get it.

Once you have your degree, no one can take it from you. I strongly stand by my original statement. Lets keep those opportunities open.
 
It's all respectful :)

I don't think that anyone is implying that having a degree is bad. It certainly can be leverage in the workplace. In my opinion, often unfairly so. It is a lazy and often ineffective way to judge someone's potential. I understand that some careers should and do require a documented knowledge base and skill set. I wouldn't want to go to a 'doctor' who said "Trust me. I don't have a degree, but I know what I am doing"

The difference of opinion stems from whether or not higher education is the best place to put your efforts in order to achieve your goals. I submit that answer will vary with the person and the place they want to get to. I only have my own experiences to draw from, but the price that I was paying (not just financially) was absolutely not worth what I was getting (or would have gotten) by continuing. I was asked to leave classes because I questioned professors too much. I do not do well in enclosed, lecture environments. I often need to fidget, move and multi task to maximize my capacity. I prefer discussion and interaction to passive listening. My college experience was the antithesis of the way my brain works. And there was nothing about conforming to that educational model that would have helped me in my current field. I realize that many people have a different experience in college. But after 6 tries at 4 different schools (state university, community college and trade/tech school) in 2 different states over almost 20 years my experience had minimal variance from what I am describing. I don't feel like that was all money and time wasted, but I do feel like those assets could have been placed more effectively.

And keep in mind that despite the dedication and passion of many professors, higher education is an industry that feeds on your fears and perceived inadequacies. How many radio commercials tell you that you need to go back to school? It feeds a never ending cycle. I did an event shoot last year in a big hotel ballroom. This company had flown in recruiters from all over the country to give them a weekend event and awards banquet for their performance in getting people to attend their colleges. This was a parent company of many private colleges whose names you might know. This one event cost them over $250,000 to reward their recruiters. The banquet was like rock concert with two big screens, a light crew, two tech directors and 4 camera operators. What does that tell you?

I'm not saying higher ed is a nefarious conspiracy. But you have to examine the motives of everyone involved in creating a need that may not always exist.

I also always have to smile when people say things like

"Say, heaven for bid, film doesn't work out for you, you have your degree to fall back on."

How can it not work out? I don't really understand that mindset. It's sort of like, "I'll try this until I'm 30 and then I'll get a real job". That doesn't make any sense to me. If you do what you love, how can you give up on that? It's all about actively deciding what is important to you.

I set out to be a writer, which morphed into me becoming a filmmaker. Have I made anything anyone has ever heard of, or sold a script? Nope. But that doesn't mean it hasn't worked out. I'm still working at those things, but in the meantime I have created a production company that has found a great niche working with educational and non-profit agencies. I write, shoot and edit stuff that matters a great deal to me.

College was not for me and I have no regrets about not getting a degree.
 
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I agree with Jim in that institutional learning is not considerate of the individual, and i wish we lived in a world where a portfolio would do more than credentials.

I would personally go even farther (just personally) and say that I think its more bogus than legit on a scale.

But I disagree with believing one can be exempt from the basics. It is never a bad idea to keep freshening up. I someday hope to go to filmschool, I will be in my thirties, and will still want to go through the whole thing.

I've been into audio and drawing/animation (cel) for years and years and years, and still never object to a lesson or course in the most absolute of basics.

What is sound, is still an exciting question, as is what is drawing.

I am constantly surprised at how much I can use from it, or how much slips amidst the details.

Never beat down the basics of your field. Screw college. My take.

Practically, however, you can play it so you gain more than you lose in that atmosphere. If they don't know about Follow Focus, hook them up with a smile I say.

T
 
Wow a whole other pgae came up in the time i did that post. I'm finding Jim's logic the most I can relate to. And have just smiled at the 'degree to fall back on'.
 
jordandov said:
Pernicious: an SAT vocabulary word if I ever saw one.
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Have they dropped the difficulty level of the SATs? I guess they've probably been obliged to.

lhdor said:
Say, heaven for bid, film doesn't work out for you, you have your degree to fall back on.
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Not if you got a film degree...
lhdor said:
I am currently working with someone who can't get a pay raise because he doesn't have a degree (no joke and yes it’s a film job)
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I assume that he's in the corporate/business sector of the industry; no one on the creative/technical side gives a hoot what paper you hang on your wall (save for technical certifications in very specific and narrow specialties like data admin, systems maintenance, hardware operation, etc). Corporate isn't exactly a 'film job;' it's merely corporate-type work that happens to be done for a production entity...
 
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