Filmschool Rant...

The, "I never let school get in the way of my education" quote comes from Mark Twain. I've been known to use it once or twice on disapproving members of extended family.

As a straight 'A' student that had some early connections at Yale, I ended up dropping out of High School to build a resort in Central America with my Dad, and then moving out at 19 to get a job as a professional illusionist in a Casino. I've continued performing and producing, and haven't looked back.

Though I live in a college city and have socialized with that group, I do miss some of what I perceive to be the community aspects of university. The friends, connections, and wild drunken experimental parties. Oh wait, maybe that's the movies.

I don't miss the degree, although I suppose if I lived in the U.S. or ever had to get a 'real' (normal) job, it would come in handy. I don't, however, see the majority of the brightest kids from my high-school class doing much with their newfound university degrees. Only a handful that went the extra mile and stayed in school for theirs masters or PHD, or ended up in an ivy league environment seem to be getting much mileage out of their majors or degrees.

As I've gotten into video and editing, and traveled back to the states I can see how it would be a lot of fun to go to say, USC film school, if I had some extra time and a couple hundred grand to blow. But I don't think it's necessary to live and succeed in life, and I don't regret my path...
 
How can it not work out? I don't really understand that mindset. It's sort of like, "I'll try this until I'm 30 and then I'll get a real job". That doesn't make any sense to me. If you do what you love, how can you give up on that? It's all about actively deciding what is important to you.
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I completely agree. My high school is ranked in the top 100 nationally, so everybody is expected to go to college. The question my friends' parents as me is, "Where are you going to college?" instead of, "What are you doing after high school?"

Anyway, most of these people inevitably ask me what my fallback is if film doesn't work out. I'd rather be a poor filmmaker my entire life than rich doing anything else; I don't want a fallback that will save me when my career isn't going well. Name five people who became something great while worrying about their fallback plan. The fallback argument is one of the most annoying that I've come across.

The most annoying argument ever though was from my grandma. It went something like this:
"You know, they say that college expands your mind. When I got my degree, I had to learn all kinds of other things like math, history, science... and the whole time I was wondering what the point was. Well, I found out that they're trying to expand your mind and make you a smarter and better person. ...but you're ok with only knowing one thing?" :furious3:
 
Drew Ott said:
I completely agree. My high school is ranked in the top 100 nationally, so everybody is expected to go to college. The question my friends' parents as me is, "Where are you going to college?" instead of, "What are you doing after high school?"
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The question should be: "what do you care enough about to dedicate yourself to?" People care more about what you are going to do instead of the person you want to be. It may seem like a slight difference, but it's huge to me.


Drew Ott said:
Name five people who became something great while worrying about their fallback plan. The fallback argument is one of the most annoying that I've come across.
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Perfect. If your goal matters to you, you'll never really quit. That is not a Pollyanna mentality. I don't mean that if you love baseball but have no legs you should hold out to play for the Yankees until you are 78. It means that if you love baseball, you can make a way to have that be a part of your life in a meaningful and financially profitable way. Maybe you will invent a prosthetic device that allows people to play at that level, or you become a GM, a coach or an equipment developer. Maybe you find a way to have a financial interest in a team.

Fall back? I'd rather fall forward.
 
Interesting that the "heaven sake" line got the most response out of my post. This line can include what you all have said but also meaning for the time being. I was able to get a private sector job that had nothing to do with filming and got it over the other canidates because I had a degree in something. This job held me until I was able to work on films. Otherwise I could have been stuck in retail.

But I feel you all got my main point in my post. I can complete see were you're coming from too.
 
Big Bad said:
Agreed. A bad experience at one lousy school doesn't mean they're all a waste of time.
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Absolutely. I don't think anyone is implying differently. College has many merits, some of which have nothing to do with academia.

One of the things that makes an educational system effective is also one of its inherent flaws. That being that they determine the context, relevance, order and amount of information that will be shared. That is a reasonable expectation since most educational experiences need to be built in a foundational way. It doesn't make sense to teach someone how parallel park if they don't know how to turn the car on.

But those criteria are set based on a perceived (and sometimes inaccurate or seemingly arbitrary) norm. They are not based on the individual students goals, skills, experiences or strengths. Institutions do not work that way.
 
How can it not work out?
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If you can't pay your expenses?

I'd rather have a degree in something than not have one at all in the event you had to work somewhere other than the film industry. A degree in film or television is still a degree in something. In an exceptionally competitive employment field, I'd say having a degree is pretty darn important.

(Speaking outside of film and television)
 
Depends a lot on what the degree is in though. I mean, having a Masters degree is pretty impressive, yes? But what if it was this Masters' degree?
http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE5223P820090303

:D

Back on track, college is what you make of it. If you're trying to get a job from someone else, no doubt having a degree can be enormously helpful. But if you know what it is that you want and you're going after it, a degree may or may not have value to you; I know several millionaires but I don't think I know any of them who bothered to get their degree (including billionaires like Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Jim Jannard, etc).

Depending on the debt load required, I can't think of anyone who would be better off with no degree, vs. with a degree, but if you're having to pay $40,000 per year then... well, that's a calculation each person has to make for themselves as to whether it's worth it to them.
 
Mattykins said:
If you can't pay your expenses?
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I'm not sure what you mean. I incurred more debt from student loans than I did from starting my production company.

And (I feel like I have to keep stressing this), I am not saying that college or a degree is bad. I am only saying it is not the right path for everyone, or everyone's ambitions.
 
Here's the argument that bothers me coming from the "anti-film school" people.

"Why would you spend money on film school? Just use that money to make some films."

Well first of all, I can't afford college. I'd be getting tons of loans to attend. Good luck getting the same loans and scholarships to experiment with making films. And how am I supposed to spend that money when I don't really know anything about making films?

What bothers me with that piece of advise is how people seem to say it, with complete certainty. You sound like irresponsible jerks. I'm not aiming this at anyone on the forum, by the way. I've just heard this so many times, said in the exact same way, that I'm completely sick of it. A change in tone would do wonders. How about saying "You could use that money to make films," instead of constantly saying, "USE THAT MONEY TO MAKE FILMS. I'M RIGHT AND YOU'RE WRONG."

I feel in my heart and mind, that going to film school is what I have to do to succeed. Could I do it by interning on sets? Probably, but I don't think that's the right way for me.

As for "How can it not work out?" This is one of the greatest things I've read in a long time. People don't seem to understand that if you truly have the passion for something and work hard at it, you WILL be successful. That success, of course, depends on what your own definition of success is.
 
I run away screaming whenever anybody thinks that they are right, you are wrong and they KNOW what's best for everyone.

Are you considering the Colorado Film School? I know you can't exactly commute from the Western Slope, but at least it's in state and they have a very hands on approach. I can put you in touch with some folks that have gone there or still attend if you want.
 
diego1235467 said:
People don't seem to understand that if you truly have the passion for something and work hard at it, you WILL be successful. That success, of course, depends on what your own definition of success is.
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Nice thing about a definition of success, is that one can always revise it to match performance.
 
diego1235467 said:
Here's the argument that bothers me coming from the "anti-film school" people.

"Why would you spend money on film school? Just use that money to make some films."

Well first of all, I can't afford college. I'd be getting tons of loans to attend. Good luck getting the same loans and scholarships to experiment with making films. And how am I supposed to spend that money when I don't really know anything about making films?

What bothers me with that piece of advise is how people seem to say it, with complete certainty. You sound like irresponsible jerks. I'm not aiming this at anyone on the forum, by the way. I've just heard this so many times, said in the exact same way, that I'm completely sick of it. A change in tone would do wonders. How about saying "You could use that money to make films," instead of constantly saying, "USE THAT MONEY TO MAKE FILMS. I'M RIGHT AND YOU'RE WRONG."

I feel in my heart and mind, that going to film school is what I have to do to succeed. Could I do it by interning on sets? Probably, but I don't think that's the right way for me.

As for "How can it not work out?" This is one of the greatest things I've read in a long time. People don't seem to understand that if you truly have the passion for something and work hard at it, you WILL be successful. That success, of course, depends on what your own definition of success is.
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Completely agree. While you do get a different (and possibly better) eduction on set of a film, film school gives you something else. BUT, and it's a big BUT (teehee), it depends on the film school.

Is it for everyone? No. Tarantino is probably the most well known director that DIDN'T go to film school, and he's the one that said "take all the money you were going to spend on school and make a film with it."

I don't completely agree with him. I think it depends on the person, and depends on the school.

But what frustrates me is always using Tarantino as an example for not going to film school. Perhaps there are others, but you know what? Tarantino didn't go, but I can name at least a dozen of the "masters" out there that DID go to film school. You can also see it in their work, they're masters because their foundation was strong to begin with. They learned what they learned by making their own films, sure, but it's not like going to film school ruined their chances like everyone makes it out to be. If anything it only helped them.

But the thing I HATE the most, is the stigma that comes with student filmmakers. It's like "student film" means the lowest of the low. A "student filmmaker" is automatically inexperienced and doesn't know anything. Sure there are lots that fit into that bill, but not everyone. Personally, I think all filmmaking is like that, you have loads of bad people that know nothing, and those few that shine.
 
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But the thing I HATE the most, is the stigma that comes with student filmmakers. It's like "student film" means the lowest of the low. A "student filmmaker" is automatically inexperienced and doesn't know anything. Sure there are lots that fit into that bill, but not everyone. I think that's found in Indy film making as well.
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Ummm, I thought you went to film school, no?.... you'll find this isn't a stigma but the god given truth. Even most grad students are just as bad or worse... why are you upset that people think 'film student' means inexperienced when

a) it is the truth about the vast vast majority
b) inexperience is practically the definition of being a beginner, a student.

The only place you'll find 'film students' who the vast majority of students are above and beyond average is American Film Institute... and you'll find rotten eggs in the bunch there. All other schools that I know of in the USA is 80% average or below, 20% talented. Don't think it's an unfair assumption. Film students, all in all, make horrible films... but that is their given right. They are LEARNING... I dare you to do anything they do on a professional job and you most likely won't find yourself on the next day's call sheet. The point being it's a safe place to make mistakes and learn... try to get out on professional sets without similar experience and you'll find it much less forgiving. Perhaps that is a catalyst to advance you further? It isn't until senior year or jr year (if lucky) that any film student will produce noteworthy material... that is unless it's viral 'fun' and CNN needs a fluff piece.


To the OP...I say take all the money you would have spent in school, put it into a film and hire me as cinematographer.... see? Everybody wins. :evil:
 
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How does being on a set teach you how to tell a story?

How does being on a set teach you how to direct?

How does being on a set teach you ... anything ... other than how to work as a set crewmember?
 
I'm not sure what you mean. I incurred more debt from student loans than I did from starting my production company.
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I'm only saying that if you went and bought gear and you couldn't make ends meet, then what? Not saying it will happen, but it's a real possibility. What if you change your mind and don't want to be a film maker anymore? What if you wanted to get an office job? What if you couldn't get work?

There is a lot more to the equation than simply student debt > production debt, henceforth production costs = production work, whereas student debt = lost opportunity and lost production work, and thus production work = livable wage. What if production work ≠ livable wage?

And I think Barry said it best.

That's it for me in this thread.
 
Ryan Patrick O'Hara said:
Ummm, I thought you went to film school, no?.... you'll find this isn't a stigma but the god given truth. Even most grad students are just as bad or worse... why are you upset that people think 'film student' means inexperienced when

a) it is the truth about the vast vast majority
b) inexperience is practically the definition of being a beginner, a student.

The only place you'll find 'film students' who the vast majority of students are above and beyond average is American Film Institute... and you'll find rotten eggs in the bunch there. All other schools that I know of in the USA is 80% average or below, 20% talented. Don't think it's an unfair assumption. Film students, all in all, make horrible films... but that is their given right. They are LEARNING... I dare you to do anything they do on a professional job and you most likely won't find yourself on the next day's call sheet. The point being it's a safe place to make mistakes and learn... try to get out on professional sets without similar experience and you'll find it much less forgiving. Perhaps that is a catalyst to advance you further? It isn't until senior year or jr year (if lucky) that any film student will produce noteworthy material... that is unless it's viral 'fun' and CNN needs a fluff piece.


To the OP...I say take all the money you would have spent in school, put it into a film and hire me as cinematographer.... see? Everybody wins. :evil:
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You're right. Maybe 'inexperienced' isn't the right word, more... sour, distasteful. Like throwing around a bad word. It makes me feel embarrassed to be in film school and people in the industry (and mainly people on these boards) talk about "student films" or "student filmmakers" in such a negative light, making me not want to be a part of that group. I feel like I want to seperate myself from "student filmmakers."

It's like student filmmaker's are lepers. "stay away!"
 
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