Filmmaking...

[Petanque]

Standard-def footage has been projected theatrically and looked fine to the audience. Don't worry about it.

We've shot stuff on the UNhacked GH1 with its awful codec, and projected on a reasonably large screen, and it looked fan-frickin'-tastic.

If I was in the position you're in, I would have no hesitation whatsoever - I would use the 1080/24p mode.

Thanks Barry, wasn't worried about the upscale at all, just looking for a convincing argument to use mjpeg, but if lpowell isn't making one, that's the end of it for me.

In another thread, someone is quoting you recommending a 1 to 1 ratio for shooting a more filmic look, ie: 30p at 1/30. Is he/she quoting you correctly?

 

[Indyreel]

We've shot stuff on the UNhacked GH1 with its awful codec, and projected on a reasonably large screen, and it looked fan-frickin'-tastic.

If I was in the position you're in, I would have no hesitation whatsoever - I would use the 1080/24p mode.

Barry,

I am shooting a feature film using the gh1 UNhacked. I've shot three quarters of the film and am realizing how good the hack is.

I have a huge action sequence coming up (low light/moon beams/fast pans, etc) and want to know if the hack will be worth it?

 

[Svart]

Barry,

I am shooting a feature film using the gh1 UNhacked. I've shot three quarters of the film and am realizing how good the hack is.

I have a huge action sequence coming up (low light/moon beams/fast pans, etc) and want to know if the hack will be worth it?

You've asked this in a bunch of threads so lets get this answered. There wouldn't be so much fanfare and excitement over the hack if it didn't improve things greatly.

Low light = no change
Moon beams = no change
Fast pans = no change in skew, improved codec breakup.

Yes the hack is worth it IF you are also ready to understand that it's a hack and things can go wrong with it and that you need to do some testing with your camera and cards to make sure you can handle what you want.

I suggest:

No native 24p
"C" settings

On good class 10 cards (panasonic gold, sandisk, Patriot LX, etc). Adata and other budget cards do not work as well as advertised in my own testing.

 

[Indyreel]

You've asked this in a bunch of threads so lets get this answered. There wouldn't be so much fanfare and excitement over the hack if it didn't improve things greatly.

Thanks Svart,

The reason I'm asking from different angles is because everyone has a different opinion. i.e. your comment in a different thread which said that native 24p had strange problems like missing P frames> That scares me, so I want to be absolutely sure that this is the right thing to do (at this stage of my film)

 

[Svart]

The Native 24p thing is a known issue. Some people can live with it, I can't. I found it to fail pretty often for my cards and camera in certain circumstances with the "card speed" lockup, and then there is the strange file structure problems. Those two pretty much kill that for me since I have been shooting stuff off/on randomly for an indie film with very hectic schedules and have no time for do-overs. Absolute reliability is key for my situation. Other folks have been fine with the occasional error. That's their prerogative.

 

[Indyreel]

The Native 24p thing is a known issue. Some people can live with it, I can't. I found it to fail pretty often for my cards and camera in certain circumstances with the "card speed" lockup, and then there is the strange file structure problems. Those two pretty much kill that for me since I have been shooting stuff off/on randomly for an indie film with very hectic schedules and have no time for do-overs. Absolute reliability is key for my situation. Other folks have been fine with the occasional error. That's their prerogative.

Are the double I frames and missing P frames occasional? And (this is the big one) will these errors render your footage useless for any professional application?

 

[Svart]

Not necessarily. I think that you probably won't *see* the problems while watching but and editing program might have problems, especially when doing things like coloring/filters.

 

[Lpowell]

Are the double I frames and missing P frames occasional? And (this is the big one) will these errors render your footage useless for any professional application?

Technically speaking, yes, the footage is spoiled. Corrupted frames occur sporatically in Native 24p recordings, but often enough to render it unreliable. Even when the footage appears to play back normally, it may contain empty frames that will make the video appear to pause for one or more frames from time to time.

 

[wturber]

I haven't tried the latest hacks, but I've yet to see any AVCHD output that manages to avoind posterization (aka banding) as well as MJPEG. You can minimize it a bit by shooting at a higher ISO and let the extra noise act as a dithering agent, but posterization of mildly gradated monochrome tones is a problem for AVCHD in the GH1.

Also there were two other problems that were relatively mild, but still worth considering. You really don't want to bump up shadows in AVCHD. In fact, I'm generally inclined to suggest shooting a bit flat and then dropping the shadows a bit in post. The AVCHD CODEC (last time I looked at least) tosses out lots of info in the shadows. And the final little fly in the ointment is the pulsing of certain fine details.

So, as far as I'm concerned, it depends a lot on the shot. If the shots include a lot of clear blue skies, AVCHD might disapoint. But if there are clouds in those skies. You'll be fine. If you have a static shot with some occasional fine detail, the "pulsing" might show up. But if you are moving the camera or zooming, it would be hard to find and notice. And if you are shooting a moody piece with lots of dark shadows, you might be limited in how much you can tweak your shots in post with AVCHD.

1080p 24 does have a clear detail and resolution advantage. So I understand the desire to use it. But there are "gotchas" and the only way to really know what to use requires that you try the various patches and CODECS with a variety of shots and develope a sense of what to expect.

Oh, and BTW, the guy that talked about a 4.6 screen being OK for 1080p but not OK for a 46 foot screen was leaving out a huge factor ... viewing distance. Further, perceived image quality is significantly impacted by the presence of noise and grain. So a clean, low noise 1080p frame will typically be perceived as having a higher quality than a noisy or grainy image that actually has more picture detail. This is partly why early digital SLRs were able to supplant film so nearly completely long before most were really competitive in terms of picture detail.

 

[larryfine451]

I am re-iterating this from another thread
I know I am "the Heretic" but I like 720p 60p low GOP for its flexibilty , cleanliness and stability ...and it looks better on my 12' screen than any of the 1080p setting on my camera ...

Maybe both my cameras are broken but I get too much noise in Mjpeg and 1080 looks too edgy to me ..like a sharpening filter is on ..the same way that 7d and 5d look fuzzy to me I am sticking with 720 till I guess af100 with nanaoflash

does an else prefer 720p on this camera ?




I think it is this camera's strength .... lets see what GH2 does...

Larry

 

[Petanque]

I am re-iterating this from another thread
I know I am "the Heretic" but I like 720p 60p low GOP for its flexibilty , cleanliness and stability ...and it looks better on my 12' screen than any of the 1080p setting on my camera ...

Maybe both my cameras are broken but I get too much noise in Mjpeg and 1080 looks too edgy to me ..like a sharpening filter is on ..the same way that 7d and 5d look fuzzy to me I am sticking with 720 till I guess af100 with nanaoflash

does an else prefer 720p on this camera ?




I think it is this camera's strength .... lets see what GH2 does...

Larry

Hi Larry, I've been fiddling with lpowell's patch, and have found that that "edginess" and overly sharp image in FHD can be tempered by shooting at 1/30. I know all about the 180 degree rule, but for me, this is the sweet spot.