Film look shooting in HD

C

cdavison2009

Member
Anyone have suggestions on how to create a film look while shooting with the HMC150 in HD? We are shooting at 24p but the images are so clear and sharp that it still looks like documentary video and not cinematic film. I know we can fool with it in Post but am wondering if anyone has suggestions for in-camera solutions? Most all of our footage is shot outdoors and/or uses natural light.
Any and all advice most appreciated.
 
Hmmm.... I'd say to start: read up here, or get Barry's HVX book and read there, about depth-of-field, and how to manipulate it with just the bare camera. Then, if you are in the mood and have the $$, take it a step farther with a 35mm adapter.

In brief, to narrow the depth of field with the camera alone, keep the iris wide open (use ND filters as necessary to achieve this) and stay on the long end of the zoom (move the camera away from the subject to do this). Then you'll get something closer to a cinematic selective focus. A 35mm adapter will give you more flexible and extensive options to reduce depth of field, but adds a lot of effort, cost, and complexity.
 
Try the cinematic file scene setting? I think its should give you the look. And there is always magic bullet looks.
 
ullanta said:
Hmmm.... I'd say to start: read up here, or get Barry's HVX book and read there, about depth-of-field, and how to manipulate it with just the bare camera. Then, if you are in the mood and have the $$, take it a step farther with a 35mm adapter.

In brief, to narrow the depth of field with the camera alone, keep the iris wide open (use ND filters as necessary to achieve this) and stay on the long end of the zoom (move the camera away from the subject to do this). Then you'll get something closer to a cinematic selective focus. A 35mm adapter will give you more flexible and extensive options to reduce depth of field, but adds a lot of effort, cost, and complexity.
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Great idea! Now that you mention it, in addition to being 30fps, another thing that makes video look like video is that everything is in focus all at once so will definitely pull back the camera and zoom in for selective focus. I'm familiar with the ND filters for reducing the amount of incoming light but how does keeping the iris aperture wide help with selective focus?
 
TheDingo said:
Make sure that you absolutely love the in-camera look you are using, because it might prove difficult to change it after your video has been shot.

For a fairly inexpensive post solution take a look at the NewBlueFx "Film Effects" plug-in : $160

http://www.newbluefx.com/film-effects.html
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Thanks for the lead, will try to shoot it right on-set but it's still good to know that there are plug-ins and other post solutions available if we f it up.
 
Skilled said:
Try the cinematic file scene setting? I think its should give you the look. And there is always magic bullet looks.
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The manual says that the F5 SCENE CINE V is for "movie-like scenes where the contrast is to be emphasized" and the F6 SCENE CINE D is for "movie-like scenes where the dynamic range is to be emphasized" - have you used either of these settings, wondering what the difference is between them? Thanks!
 
cdavison2009 said:
how does keeping the iris aperture wide help with selective focus?
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The wider the aperture the shorter the DOF (areas that remains in acceptable focus).

Unfortunately, there's no "cinematic" scene setting that will magically give the footage that movie look. There just isn't. And I discourage people from using Magic Bullet since extreme color grading can usually hide poor cinematography, and you won't learn anything that way.

The main difference between those two scene files are in the gamma curve. To put it simply, any part of an image can be divided into three main areas: the highlight, the midtone and the shadow depending on their luminance values. CineV emphasize contrast, meaning that the shadow area is "crushed" so that grey becomes black. Cine-D emphasize dynamic range so the highlight and the shadow area are "stretched", resulting in a lower contrast (milky) image, but with more informations captured.

The way to make your movie looks like film is to learn how to light or to use existing lights to your advantage. Good locations and compositions are critical in this. Trust me, HD resolution isn't the problem. Real film are projected at 2k resolution and you don't see any complaints there.
 
Get someone who knows how to light/control light even in outdoor situations with bounce/fill/negative fill and then get someone who knows location/set design. I promise, these will be the two largest things in your quest for the "film look."
 
Huy Vu said:
The wider the aperture the shorter the DOF (areas that remains in acceptable focus).

Unfortunately, there's no "cinematic" scene setting that will magically give the footage that movie look. There just isn't. And I discourage people from using Magic Bullet since extreme color grading can usually hide poor cinematography, and you won't learn anything that way.

The main difference between those two scene files are in the gamma curve. To put it simply, any part of an image can be divided into three main areas: the highlight, the midtone and the shadow depending on their luminance values. CineV emphasize contrast, meaning that the shadow area is "crushed" so that grey becomes black. Cine-D emphasize dynamic range so the highlight and the shadow area are "stretched", resulting in a lower contrast (milky) image, but with more informations captured.

The way to make your movie looks like film is to learn how to light or to use existing lights to your advantage. Good locations and compositions are critical in this. Trust me, HD resolution isn't the problem. Real film are projected at 2k resolution and you don't see any complaints there.
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Thanks Huy, will keep the aperture wide open in the low (natural) light, what shutter speed would you recommend? If I use 1/24 then I'll check the zebra function to make sure no parts of the scene are overexposed.
 
ullanta said:
Some discussions of aperture vs. DOF:

http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/depth-of-field.htm

http://www.hp.com/united-states/consumer/digital_photography/take_better_photos/tips/depth.html

http://photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=0006DG

and... ditto on Huy's point about the lighting. Even outdoors, proper use of bounce lighting, etc., will make a real difference... but there's a reason that lighting is generally what the most time is spent on on a film set or location!
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Thanks for the links. Bought some directional lights with diffusers today, already have some reflector boards. Also thinking to perhaps up the color temperature to give everything a bluish hue, will fit the dark/creepy look we are going for.
 
Hey I'm jumping in here late, but was wondering about peoples experiences with Magic Bullet looks. Is it worth it? From what I understand, it's pretty much just a collection of filters that you could get in After Effects with more time and experience? I've heard good things about MBlooks, any bad?
 
I thinks its only bad when you just pop the presets and leave it as is.
especially the glows.
To get the most out MB your gonna have to play around with the settings , especially in AE it can get really powerfull.
 
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denzlite said:
Hey I'm jumping in here late, but was wondering about peoples experiences with Magic Bullet looks. Is it worth it? From what I understand, it's pretty much just a collection of filters that you could get in After Effects with more time and experience? I've heard good things about MBlooks, any bad?
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Haven't tried Magic Bullet but based on two test screenings, we did manage to get a film look shooting on the HMC-150. We did it by leaving the aperture wide open, by framing things in thirds (subject usually frame left or right, not center) and by using manual focus so that not everything in the shot is all in focus at the same time. It looked pretty good in-camera and then during post we saturated the color a bit more, darkened the frames in places and reduced the contrast by about 15% to give it a softer, filmic look.
 
It you're used to using oldschool glass filters in your camera you could probably relate to the Tiffen digital plugins for post, they have some great filters... I used them a lot, here's the link http://www.tiffen.com/dfx_Purchase2.html

I also like Magic Bullet, but they usually take longer to render... the tiffen work just great!
 
MB is great for quick "film look" CC but renders pretty slow. If you can learn some basic color correction on your own in your editing system that will make a big difference. Also like everyone else is saying, lighting is huge to getting that pro film look no matter what you are shooting on. The HMC can get amazing footage if you take your time with it. Also there is always a 35mm adapter. An adapter on a great HD cam like the HMC gets you real close to film.
 
Skilled said:
Well post it up...lets see it!
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Would that I could, entered the film into consideration for a film festival and they demand premiere exclusivity plus no distribution, online or theatrical. Could share a hi-res frame capture if I could figure out how to share images in this forum.
 
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