FS7: Fellow Americans: Has Anyone Recently Entered England Without a Carnet?

nedcam

nedcam

Well-known member
I ask this question because I have been dragged out of my idyllic retirement to go to London and Paris to film a bicycle race, leaving on Monday. I'm bringing the minimum of gear (ENG camera, Osmo, Tripod...) listed for less than $20K, and the company I am dealing with for the carnet, a very large carnet company, is dragging this out and may be over the $500 pain threshold I have set. I need a Plan B.

I am not going to be reimbursed for the carnet's cost. Before retiring from my DP career in March 2017 I did extensive international traveling for four decades and I'd say we had carnets only about 25% of the time. Usually when a Fortune 100 or network was paying.

So, has anyone had any RECENT experience landing at Heathrow airport WITHOUT A CARNET, but with professionally looking gear, and NOT had a problem going through customs?

Thanks,

Ned
 
I think you will be basically rolling the dice.. you might get stopped or not.. the UK is a carnet country.. Im sure some people have got away with it.. but there must be some who didnt .. but why wont the prod co pay/reimburse for the carnet ..?? I,d be more worried about that.. they would jeopardize their whole shoot for $500.. ?
 
nedcam said:
I ask this question because I have been dragged out of my idyllic retirement to go to London and Paris to film a bicycle race, leaving on Monday. I'm bringing the minimum of gear (ENG camera, Osmo, Tripod...) listed for less than $20K, and the company I am dealing with for the carnet, a very large carnet company, is dragging this out and may be over the $500 pain threshold I have set. I need a Plan B.
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What are you covering?

Thought it might be this:
http://www.londonparisbikeride.co.uk/itinerary-L2PTDF.aspx

But you're leaving a little too late for that!

Anyway, as a big bike nerd (I did around ten thousand kilometers of cycling last year) am very jealous of your job to go film them!
 
My last few trips to Europe were all on low budg independent docs, typically with an F3 and a second, smaller camera together in the same black rollaboard bag. No carnets and no problems to report. But my last time at Heathrow was pre-Brexit, so not sure if things have changed since then.
 
nedcam said:
.

So, has anyone had any RECENT experience landing at Heathrow airport WITHOUT A CARNET, but with professionally looking gear, and NOT had a problem going through customs?

Thanks,

Ned
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Yes. Was filming on a doco in the UK last year. The regulations are still the same. You can get a "Temporary Admission on goods imported from outside the EU ." You can do it all online. It gets processed straight away. For the short time frame you have the best way is to "Apply online (sign in to, or set up a Government Gateway account)" These are the links you will need to follow:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/import-and-export-apply-for-temporary-admission-sp5

https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/gg/s.../form/application-for-temporary-admission/new

If you want to use the postal SP5 form you can look at the postal version here. Though I wouldn't looking at your Monday departure date.

https://public-online.hmrc.gov.uk/l...ations/SpecPersTax_A/1.0/SP5&template=SP5.xdp

You can then do your "SP5" application online. At the end of the filling in process you lodge your application and it gets approved, assuming all the necessary criteria is met. You then print out the required approval documentation. Print out numerous copies. When you arrive at Heathrow be prepared for a total lack of knowledge at the immigration counters. Go straight to the Customs counter/section and explain to them, and believe me you really do have to explain to them what you are doing. Unless you are lucky you will get a very slow moving customs official who will no have experience with this temporary admission form. It is important that they take one of the copies of the approval documentation that you printed out at the conclusion of the application process. Impress on the customs official that this MUST go through to HMRC (HM Revenue & Customs) head office. This point is very important!

To be 100% covered ask them nicely to stamp one of your copies 'for your records.' If required this copy helps acknowledge the fact that yes that you have been through the process as required. This is important because when you exit the UK you need to go through customs again and show your kit and for good measure a copy of the form you left at customs so they know what they are dealing with, a temporary import export situation. In addition I find if I show them the 'for my records' copy that I got stamped on arrival it helps them understand what is going on. They see the HMRC stamp and it dawns on them that this guy knows what's going on even if we don't. Again they are normally clueless as to what you are asking for. Sadly you have to step them through the process step by step. It's important they cross reference your export with the import form that was lodged at time of arrival in the UK. Finally ask them to stamp and sign a copy, 'for your records', that the equipment has been checked as going out and that all is approved. This last copy is just for you protection in case anything should occur down the line.

I find being firm and acting like you have done this numerous times before and that this is just the normal state of affairs for temporary import/export will make it easier for you... and them!! Customs officers who have no experience with this process will not want to show up their lack of knowledge and will take their lead from you the knowledgeable traveling cameraman. I use terms like "Hi guys. could you check my equipment for me and stamp one of these forms and forward it through to head office for me as they will be expecting it after my online temporary import /export application." Then thank them for their great service, or words to that effect. Lay it on a bit in other words. It works every time for me. Been through the process numerous times.

I don't know what it's like going out of the States but going out of Australia to avoid any questions on my return I go to the customs counter and ask them nicely to have a look at my list of equipment, which I have previously printed out on my letterhead, and ask them for a customs stamp and date on the list after they have looked at the equipment. They normally say to me "But this is not an official document?" I say that's fine it's just for my office records. Taking this step has avoided me having any issues with my own customs on return. Remember you have no record of your equipment having left your country have you, well not unless it's on a Carnet. Usually on return when I show customs that their own airport customs office saw the equipment and and stamped my list before I left lets them know I'm pretty much a bona fide good chappy:)

Follow the above and importantly pay very careful attention to the details you fill in online, having to redo the application again is an absolute pain, and all should go smoothly. Remember be firm but polite with the dopey customs people and the force will be with you.

Good luck.

Chris Young
 
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Thats sounds like a massive hassle.. why not just get a carnet.. thats what they are used to seeing and know about.. they never go through the whole thing.. just camera usually and maybe a lens.. takes no time at all..
 
Trying to get one done by Friday for a Monday flight would be impossible here in Oz. If you can get one in two days or so in the States that's brilliant.

We have had issues with Carnets. In Hawaii with a Carnet they made us pull all the kit then spread it all across the counters. Customs went through it piece by piece checking the numbers etc. We were there by invitation of the US Government and had full military security clearances issued by the US Navy as we were filming missile testing after sailing from Pearl Harbour. The US Navy guys with us couldn't help speed things up so it was just grin and bare it.

On another trip flying from Denver to Chicago then onto Toronto was a drama because that is normally considered a domestic route without a Carnet. Not for us though as they could not handle the Carnet in the domestic terminal at O'Hare. We had to grab a terminal bus and drive right across O'Hare to the customs office find a customs official and again go through the whole process of all kit out for examination. Twenty minutes later Customs were happy. They had their copy plus we had our stamped copies and back on the bus for another ten minute ride back to domestic. Just made the flight.

Doing it with the temporary import export deal for UK trips also means you don't have to post a bond or irrevocable letter of credit to cover the bond requirements. You avoid all the US requirements for getting a Carnet issued.

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/de...sion/L3RpbWUvMTUzMTkwNTM0NS9zaWQvWDdraDZaUm4=

From the US all you need to do is comply with the requirements listed at the link below using the CBP Form 4455. A much smoother process, much simpler than the whole Carnet rigmarole when you only have a couple of days to organize it.

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/368/kw/ATA carnet bond/related/1

Which ever way it's done good luck to the original poster.

Chris Young
 
Thanks everyone! Especially Chris Young. I will work on this today. If this carnet company wants more than $500 I won't get a carnet and just try to charm my way through.

This is a freebie I am doing to help my son, who is starting his own business of creating challenge events to raise money for charity. This is a group of bikers, not racing necessarily (thank God), I just termed it as such for abbreviation. So all money out on my part will not be reimbursed and it's getting near $4000, which would include a $500 carnet.

Their event culminates at the end of the Tour de France, which I have to sneak in without a press pass. The size of a full size ENG camera is a dead give away so I may need to buy stock footage later.

I'll let you know in a couple of weeks what happened.

Best,

Ned
 
They are understaffed at Heathrow at the moment, so you might squeeze through unnoticed, but I'd still advise getting a carnet.

Donny 123 said:
Thats sounds like a massive hassle.. why not just get a carnet.. thats what they are used to seeing and know about.. they never go through the whole thing.. just camera usually and maybe a lens.. takes no time at all..
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Last week in Mexico, they went through every single piece of my kit. Landing in UK they didn't check anything. They rarely do.
 
I highly recommend you follow Cy’s advice about entering the U.K.

And on the USA end; when traveling without a Carnet I always make a list, & get it stamped by US Customs before departure.
 
Liam Hall said:
They are understaffed at Heathrow at the moment, so you might squeeze through unnoticed, but I'd still advise getting a carnet.



Last week in Mexico, they went through every single piece of my kit. Landing in UK they didn't check anything. They rarely do.
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Yes UK Ive found to be pretty good at customs re carnets.. just the camera usually .. and sometimes nothing at all.. they just want to have a cup of tea..
 
OK OK OK I Bought the carnet, it was the minimum of $424. Great customer service. I just don't want to risk being stopped or turned back, that would be a big disappointment to my son. Besides, I get to write off a trip to jolly old England and France.

If British customs wanted to be bastards they could charge me 40% of the value. So although several local cameramen and soundmen have told me they have waltzed through Heathrow, I don't want to risk it. However, I will see if they even ASK me for it as I go through customs there.

About 30 years ago in Buenos Aires they confiscated all my gear at customs at the airport, they held it for me for a week but would not let me use it in their country. So I lost the first day of the shoot having to find a rental house and then shoot with substandard gear, 16mm in those days. Our fixer told us to give the agent $50, that he was fishing for a bribe, but my client thought we were being set up for an anti-American incident. They were still pissed we supported their military junta.

The company that I dealt with which helped me by getting me the minimum cost is:

https://www.atacarnet.com

I highly recommend them. But I'm pissed I'm out the money.

Best regards from the land of no alarm clocks: Retirement!

Ned
 
" However, I will see if they even ASK me for it as I go through customs there. "

You will have to go through the RED goods to declare anyway.. its more like you have to tell them.. than they ask you ....
 
nedcam said:
I'll let you know in a couple of weeks what happened.
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Great stuff that you are covered and set now. Whenever we are filming in the UK and Europe we normally have two cameras, lenses, lights, soft boxes, sound kits, sticks etc etc and the total cost is often in excess of $100K plus it's a big kit. I wouldn't risk trying to get that lot into Europe without a Carnet. The UK that's a different matter with their temp import / export deal it works and works fine.

Yes let us know how you go. Always good to get the latest feedback on customs experiences. I learned from the experienced who went before me. Feedback is always useful.

Happy shooting!

Chris Young.
 
Your far more likely to have problems with the ever changing lithium battery regs.. airline/security staff still quite often dont know them.. or have to call in their supervisor ..and even they are sometimes ignorant of the facts.. get one on a bad day and its really frustrating and time consuming ..
 
Donny 123 said:
Your far more likely to have problems with the ever changing lithium battery regs.. airline/security staff still quite often dont know them.. or have to call in their supervisor ..and even they are sometimes ignorant of the facts.. get one on a bad day and its really frustrating and time consuming ..
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... and expensive too because they end directly in the bin if you don't want to stay on the ground and accompany your batteries.
 
UPDATE FROM THE OP:

I am back from the trip and here's what I found: You really should get a Carnet to enter at Heathrow. I went to the red door, he did his certification or whatever they do. I then asked, "Did I really need to have a Carnet to get in the UK? Would the Her Majesty Revenue & Customs Form sufficed?" His answer boiled down to: "Depends who is on duty." In sum, if you don't want to risk not being allowed in, get a Carnet. I valued the gear low at $17K so I was charged the minimum of $424. I see no reason to value used gear too high, that would make the cost of the Carnet higher for no reason.

When I re-entered the US they were so busy and overworked they just waived me through, even though I had a large ENG camera on a shoulder strap, I looked like a network news guy.

Lastly, I researched what was current on the lithium battery issue. I use Anton Bauers with a meter window. By draining them to less than 1/3rd power I was able to check them in baggage according to the rules, so drain your batts before packing and they can't hassle you.

Oh, one more thing. I had to move soooo fast, jumping out of a van over 100 times to film the cyclists, I had no time for the tripod, a heavy Sachtler 20. The camera is too heavy for a monopod. In sum, I wish I had brought a Steady Bag because I found myself kneeling a lot with the camera on the pavement. Fast bikes look cool from low, they were told to always barely miss me. I am glad I brought an adult size servo zoom lens, no way I could have done this with still lenses. Also, it was the hottest summer since 1976, making it harder but I got telephoto heat shimmers.

See ya,

Ned
 
"Lastly, I researched what was current on the lithium battery issue. I use Anton Bauers with a meter window. By draining them to less than 1/3rd power I was able to check them in baggage according to the rules, so drain your batts before packing and they can't hassle you.
"
Really ..I thought that was for cargo flights only.. and required more paper work.. and strict packaging requirements.. which airline. . I,ll never fly with them.. :)
 
Pretty sure that's cargo flights, too. Yikes.

Last couple of trips to the UK I just used the (Free) U.S. customs certificate of registration and had no issues. Just had them stamp it on the way in and out. They always seem confused about what it is but stamp it anyway. Did my US entry at Dublin on the way out.
I usually reserve the carnets for more dicey destinations that are carnet countries.

Enjoy your retirement, Ned!


Edit: The U.S. preclearance was at Dublin, not Heathrow. The certificate of registration for U.S. citizens is Customs form 4455. I've used it many times for U.S. friendly countries like Italy, France and the UK. I would NOT attempt to use it for Canada these days.
 
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From IATA copied off the inter web
"The aircraft manufacturers’ have concerns that if “large quantities” of lithium ion batteries are involved in a fire that the Halon used in the fire suppression system in aircraft cargo compartments may not be capable of suppressing the fire. Consequently They Have Recommended That Airlines Not Carry Lithium Ion Batteries As Cargo On Passenger Aircraft Until safer methods have been implemented. They also recommend that airlines perform a safety risk assessment before they decide to carry lithium batteries as cargo to determine appropriate mitigation measures".

AFAIK .. no lithium batts are allowed in the cargo of passenger planes ..only cargo planes with a ton of requirements on packaging .. much as I hate the Nazi checking A hole.. I think that was pretty errant if they let you checkin your batts and they could have faced a huge fine.. they let do you that twice.. from Heathrow too..?.. if it was only a 30% rule thats what everyone would do..
 
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