F3: Feature Requests for Firmware Upgrade on the Sony PMW-F3

I'd happily pay for 10-bit internal (even if it were only XAVC), but I suppose the benchmark price-wise has to be the $899 for the 4:4:4 upgrade plus around $3000 for the eventual ProRes 4:4:4 and 50p/60p recording on the Odyssey 7Q.

So at the moment it's about $3900 to get the absolute best out the F3. I'd definitely pay that to get that full functionality into the F3's internal recordings. But if it were any lower level of function (i.e. not 4:4:4 or not 50p/60p) the money would be better spent on the external option.
 
That's 4 people who would pay

morgan_moore said:
the interesting debacle is that Sony need to put 4k internal in the f5 to really want us to upgrade and not get a 700/o7q instead.
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I agree, with no 4K internal, it feels pointless, but wouldn't 4K internal make a big impact on F55 sales?
 
Well my next phone will probably have 4k internal so..

the cripple cams don't help the companies IMO. C500 for c100 money or f55 for f5 money think we would all be happy and they would be shifting a ton of stock. The first big corporate to realise this would do themselves a huge favour. I'm sure it is possible.
 
5 people would pay for an upgrade.

Jack Carter
MPB
Richard Allen Crook
Morgan Moore
Grug

As for 60p, I'm not too bothered myself, though it would be nice. Going external recorders, for me, I'd be more inclined to go for the PIX240i, just because it's simple, and it works. Hold on till NAB, I'm sure more 4444 recorders will come, perhaps Atomos will do something soon. I know paying for the 444 upgrade is annoying, but you do get a 32gb SxS card. It could be worse, the original price was way higher for the upgrade, and when the price was dropped, it pissed a lot of people off.
 
I hate to burst everyone's bubble, but many of the features you're requesting for the F3 are almost certainly not possible on the existing hardware, no matter how you rewrite the firmware/software.

Now before everyone jumps on me for saying that, please understand that with every technology cycle more and more features that were previously implemented fully in hardware are being implemented in firmware/software, and for good reason - gpu's are getting smaller, faster, with less battery drain, and less heat output.

But by principle, a general processing unit is less efficient than an equivalent dedicated hardware solution. The positive trade-off is that it's more flexible.

A couple years ago on this very forum the wishlist of either ProRes, DNxHD or just 50Mb 422 for the F3 was requested, discussed, and explored. Those familiar with the chips and hardware used in the F3 indicated that the encoder chip used wasn't capable of providing the 422 by itself, that a second encoder chip would be needed, and that then with firmware changes it might be possible to have 50Mb/422.

If you look at the way 420 and 422 work in terms of color sampling, you'll see that generating 422 data is quite literally twice as much work - and Sony only put the chip that was needed for the specified codec in the camera.

And as for 50p and 60p recording... those are possible now, with an external recorder.
 
I don't think anyone here thinks that everything can be done. I think most everybody understands that there are limitations with this camera. The point is, we are trying to get a list to Sony so that they could verify exactly what they can do and cannot do. Bring some finality and closure to the whole thing. As of right now, no disrespect intended, everyone can only speculate. If someone says they want their camera to make them a sandwich, I say lets add it to the list. Let's get it to Sony and hear from the horses mouth.
 
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Viddovation said:
Those familiar with the chips and hardware used in the F3 indicated that the encoder chip used wasn't capable of providing the 422 by itself, that a second encoder chip would be needed, and that then with firmware changes it might be possible to have 50Mb/422.
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I know nothing about the internal workings of a camera, but why can't they put in the 'Chip' from a PMW-300?

I have read Sony didn't add 422 as it would have made that camera bigger.

Viddovation, not that you need it with your set-up! :love4: But would you pay for a 10bit internal upgrade for your F3? If we could get enough numbers, you never know! See it as a bit of fun.

morgan_moore said:
the cripple cams don't help the companies IMO. C500 for c100 money or f55 for f5 money think we would all be happy and they would be shifting a ton of stock. The first big corporate to realise this would do themselves a huge favour. I'm sure it is possible.
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Blackmagic Production camera? Not my type of camera though. I've come to the decision, if Sony add 4k internal to the F5, I will buy one.
 
It's like asking Chevy to make your old Corvette easily accept the new 6.2L motor, because their newest models have it.
While the engine may drop in, you have ECU, wiring, and accessory issues.
If manufacturers had to stick with current platforms, we'd still have riding in Model T's and shooting on 3/4".

I had a VERY early F3, paid full price, paid full price for the SLOG (yes, it ticked me off) but I expect NO more Sony love for it. :(
 
F3 upgrades are not going to happen. Time to move on. Shoot, enjoy and earn from the F3 or buy F5/55. It remains a great camera and I'm still producing some beautiful images with it. But nothing more coming for it.

Ned
 
nsoltz said:
F3 upgrades are not going to happen. Time to move on. Shoot, enjoy and earn from the F3 or buy F5/55. It remains a great camera and I'm still producing some beautiful images with it. But nothing more coming for it.

Ned
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Totally agree. Beautiful images. Frankly up until the most recent development of internal Prores, I saw no reason to pick up an F5.
 
I was quite certain the F3 was largely based on an EX3 (hence XDCAM) but if the EX3 is 50mbps 422 then why in the world would Sony not provision this in the F3 at all?
 
starcentral said:
I was quite certain the F3 was largely based on an EX3 (hence XDCAM) but if the EX3 is 50mbps 422 then why in the world would Sony not provision this in the F3 at all?
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They were trying to protect both their shoulder-mount news cams and their flagship F35 at the time. The original presentations I went to on it made this pretty clear. "Why not 50Mbps for broadcasters?" "Oh, the PDW700 and our complete XDCAM disc-based workflow is better for broadcast work", "Then why 35Mbps for cinema work?" "Oh, you can pair it with our ridiculously expensive and awkwardly-sized recorder to act as a b-cam for the F35".

Then the C300 came round and totally cut its lunch.
 
Good explanation, makes sense.

Funny how many people think RED got many manufacturers to sing a different tune but look at this example with the F3, Sony still protecting markets with the F3 right up to 2012 when the new F was announced.
 
I still think we will get another firmware update, nothing amazing, but something. The EX3 just received a firmware update for a chromatic abbreviation fix.

I read in a interview with a Sony Tech/designer, he said they left the 50mbps out as it would have made the camera bigger (2 chips?). I can't find the interview now, I was doing research on the PMW-300 (I think).

Look at the positive, If I want a second F3, it's like the price of HVR-V1E now, insane. And it's new http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SONY-PMW-...ctronics_Video_Camcorders&hash=item27dfc3c958

Dennis, are you using the Sony OLED viewfinder on your 55? If so, any comments? I would love that thing on the F3!

Does anybody know what the 'SPARE' port is for on the F3? Ahhh.... 3D
 
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Sometimes it's hard to discern between absolute certainty and speculation. Many of you guys are speaking with absolute certainty that nothing can be done. I agree though...i am one of those who thinks they have moved on from the camera. But the point of this is to get a list together so that we can at least talk to Sony and get a response. If you guys speculating actually have some inside knowledge from Sony then please divulge it to us. But even still, I think it's still very feasible to get a response from Sony directly and put this to bed finally. And I mean this in the nicest possible way, but let's at least try for a response from Sony and not put this to bed just yet. :)
 
OLED all the way baby for the pretty colours and resolution... but the LCD is better if you wish to just flip it up and use as a mini 2" monitoring screen - you can't do that with the OLED.
 
Richard Allen Crook said:
Sometimes it's hard to discern between absolute certainty and speculation. Many of you guys are speaking with absolute certainty that nothing can be done. I agree though...i am one of those who thinks they have moved on from the camera. But the point of this is to get a list together so that we can at least talk to Sony and get a response. If you guys speculating actually have some inside knowledge from Sony then please divulge it to us. But even still, I think it's still very feasible to get a response from Sony directly and put this to bed finally. And I mean this in the nicest possible way, but let's at least try for a response from Sony and not put this to bed just yet. :)
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i can't prove that god doesn't exist. and i wouldn't want to if i could.

still . . . .

Sony has no more interest in telling you that they've abandoned the F3 than they have in supporting it.
 
You are correct, the internal recording is XDCAM-EX which is 35 Mbps 420. The output from the HD-SDI is 10 bit uncompressed 422. Dennis is still fundamentally correct in my view about the F3, in many ways being part of the EX platform
 
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