Feature next fall with Dvx100b is it worth it?

Adam J McKay

Adam J McKay

Veteran
Hey guys,

I am in the pre-production stages of a feature. I recently purchased 2 dvx100b's for my video production business. I am wondering if I would be able to get away with shooting a feature next fall with the dvx's or will distributors demand hd? It's a goal to be able to release it thearically, however I realise that it is unlikely. But on the off chance that it does get picked up, do you think that it would hold up, or just look to, dare a I say, amatureish, compared to all the other films ?

Just want to know your thoughts.
 
The DVX has made theatrical releases already, so that's not an issue. In regards to future proofing and how your film will look in a year, comparing to the other HD cameras...well, as long as it has a good story you should be fine. Are you going through your budget now, trying to decide?

-Kegan
 
I am in the process of deciding if I should shoot a feature with the dvx or go to film school. Which is going to be more beneficial? The descision is one that has been plaggueing me. And then ultimately, if I decide to shoot the feature it is then the question of will the dvx hold up, because alot of the stuff I see online looks like a really bad b movie. And I realise its the story that is the most important but at the same time I don't want to have something that looks like it was shot on a handycam. That said I also realise that if you take the time set up camera, shots, lights properly and a little color correction in post, it can very closely resemble 16mm film.

Descisions, descisions. I will also be looking for some actors and a few crew when the time comes, so if there is anyone in Northern Ontario and who might be interested let me know. I am also doing a few shorts for this years cinefest and could use some talented people for those as well.
 
zergtherobot said:
I am in the process of deciding if I should shoot a feature with the dvx or go to film school. Which is going to be more beneficial?
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Making a sucktacularly bad film will do nothing for you but put you in debt. And if you don't know what you're doing before starting, you WILL make a sucktacularly bad film (we all do).

Of course, going to a lousy film school will do little for you but put you in debt.

So the best answer is: go to a great film school. Don't try to make a film until you know what you're doing.

because alot of the stuff I see online looks like a really bad b movie.
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And that would likely be from people who didn't know what they were doing (see the pattern?) Go look at Iraq In Fragments, nominated for Best Picture in the documentary category and shot on a DVX100. If you know what you're doing, the camera won't be what holds you back! And if you don't know what you're doing, the camera won't bail you out.

How do you know that you know what you're doing? Make some shorts and enter them in film festivals; if you start winning the top prize at multiple festivals (especially BIG festivals, like SXSW) then yeah, you're probably ready. But if you're showing your work and nobody (other than your immediate family) thinks you're ready? Why push forward from there? Why not leap into studying instead?
 
Well your first post says you've already picked up 2 100b's so my advice is do both- make your feature while you're going to film school.
Don't get caught up thinking the first thing you create will be the end-all of projects. It's just a step in a long line of steps you'll take until you get good.
No matter how good you think your first script is, painful years or reality later you'll say "what was I thinking". It's the whole "experience" thing- It sucks but you just don't get to start at the top.
 
For every first-timer that actually gets it right (like the guy who made Primer), there are a 1,000, maybe 10,000 that get it wrong. I've seen those films, and they're excrutiating to watch.

Actually, I've seen a lot of spectacular short film makers take the next step and fail miserably on their first features. When it comes down to it, there are some skills that translate well between shorts and features (technical skills, mostly, and working with actors), and some don't (the plotting, pacing, and depth is world's apart, what makes a great short is not what makes a great feature).

That said, the only way to hone your skills is to make films. In film school, eventually, you might make a few films. You could also make some films with very little stakes to sharpen your skills. No budget, no pressure, no expectations.

Whatever gets you there, but reading your posts, it doesn't sound like your there yet.
 
Well really, film school only exists for the contacts. That's my opinion on it.

I am in school right now for film and cinema. Honestly I've learned more while being on professional sets than in school. The thing is with a full feature that you want to get theatrical release...you need a little bit more than a camera.

The era of the truly independent film is dead. Really you are going to be looking into pushing a million to 20 for a theatrical release film...not to mention the studio backing.

Shooting for a film fest is a different story. But really it comes down to knowing how the system works of pre, production, and post production. How to work with a crew and the talent. How to make memorable experiences on film.

Best of luck to you either way.
 
film scool

film scool

On the note of film school, I was looking at the prices of going to a good school, say NYU, and they are absoultely rediculous. Then I seen some workshops offered by the new york film academy in L.A. But paying 5000+ for a 4 week session of networking seems insane.

I am hoping to have some new stuff done in the next little while and now that I know this site exists I will post it up and see what people think.

thanks for the opinions
 
Barry_Green said:
Making a sucktacularly bad film will do nothing for you but put you in debt. And if you don't know what you're doing before starting, you WILL make a sucktacularly bad film (we all do).
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I can tell you from my own experience that this is what will most likely happen. I attempted a feature before I knew what I was doing, and it was sucktacular! The thing about it though -- I learned a lot by making mistakes. I didn't come out at the end with a film that I was happy with, but I learned so much that the experience was completely worth it. Please bear in mind that I only spent a few thousand. I would not recommend that you spend $5,000+ on a first film, whether short or feature length.

As others have said, do some short films. At first you might feel anxious to get to that feature idea, but just stick with the shorts.

As for film school -- it is not going to be cheap, no matter where you go. And if you want to go to a good film school, be prepared for steep prices. That is just the way it goes. I was in the same boat as you, and decided that in the long run, film school was just too costly for me. I went the self-study route. No way is right or wrong, just be aware of each decisions advantages and disadvantages.

Another thing to think about is that you don't have to completely throw away the notion of taking structured classes on film. There are workshops you can take. You can always combine self study with some classes or workshops. Also, don't forget about DVD learning courses like the Hollywood Camera Work series.

Now, of course you need to actually make some sort of a film to learn the process. Whether you go to film school or decide to study on your own. Filmmaking can be learned without film school. You have to be extremely disciplined -- as in you may need a drill sgt. to constantly be pushing you to read books on the subject, watch films in an academic mindset, get out everyday and shoot or practice lighting and camera techniques. It really becomes like a religion. So having a girlfriend, friends, a social life, job, etc. becomes very difficult if you are into your craft. The irony is that you need to still have connections with these people and society so that you can tell stories that reflect back on our world in a meaningful way.

Is the DVX100 capable of shooting a quality film? YES. The important question, is the filmmaker capable of putting together a competent and organized production that results in a quality film?

Also, if you do some shorts, by the time you are ready for a feature you will possibly be ready to upgrade to HD anyways. I wouldn't worry about it now.
 
Well, if you are in high school - go to college.

Not necessarily a film school per se, but you want a degree in something. In the event that the film thing tanks (odds are it will), you want something to fall back on insofar as a communications degree or something along those lines.

I recommend you go to some school and not bypass it entirely. Consider a liberal arts college. That piece of paper is entirely worth it.
 
Mr.Green knows exactly what he is talking about. A good film is a good film no matter what format it was shot on.
 
It seems to me that everyone is different. (duh?) Most people have obstacles blocking their goals: be it lack of talent, lack of money, or whatnot.

For me, I've never really had a hard time making films that people like. I studied on my own, and turned down filmschool after my cousin (and two other friends) went. They made very poor movies, and their creativity just died. They touted everything their profs said as fact, even though much of it was subjective. (Citizen Kane is the best movie and everyone knows that....)

And she went to a VERY good school. Film school does not seem to be what it was in the 70s. I also was fortunate to have some simple connections to "the industry," through my father. They haven't helped me with work, but taught me alot. One thing being that many professionals do not like film school graduates. This may or may not be pervasive, just a consistent experience in my dealings.

THAT SAID, some people do very well in school and learn better with instruction.

The point is simply that everyone needs to study, the question is whether it's by yourself or in an institution.

My obstacles have always been ill-health. That is what keeps me from my goals. I'm a very good autodidact, and was homeschooled for the better part of my childhood, so I naturally take to study in solitude.

No route is better or worse; just better or worse FOR YOU. I gave you a bit of my story simply because if you find something in common there, perhaps it may help your decision.

Here's where I get on my high horse. Learn as much as you humanly can, no matter what route you take. Few people become successful through laziness. And most people are lazy. Especially people with aspiration for film or music, or any liberal art. Hard work is mandatory, and so is questioning everything.

If you do decide on film school, for the love of God, take your profs with a grain of salt. (Or possibly 8000mgs or more.)

And also--this is something that is not said enough--have fun. Anyone can take a 9 to 5 job with limit to their satisfaction, if you're bothering with the risk, the work, and the experience of a creative art, make sure it's fun.

The last thing I'll say, and bear in mind all of this is opinion only, with this point more so... What do you have to say? Is this just a job for you because you enjoy it? Or, do you realistically feel that you have something to contribute to the history of film. I've always approached things with a certain mantra, "many people can make good action films, comedies, or commonplace content meant soley to entertain. What can I do better than anyone else?" or "What can I make that no one else has made."

I suppose this is a comment on originality. And I'm not saying to avoid this path because you may want to approach it as a job and make formulaic content. There's nothing wrong with that. But answering that question will help you with the film school question.

If your answer is the latter and you wish to make quality mainstream content than film school is more likely to bode well with you. IMHO.

Whatever you chose, good luck, and welcome to one of the most interesting and dynamic professions in the world.
 
Thanks

Thanks

Thanks for all the replies. I agree with alot of what was said here. And I love making films because for a brief moment I can show people the world through my eyes. They can share with me how I feel and see things. My goal in filmmaking, albeit a huge goal, is to have a film screened at Cannes. Not to win an oscar, not to make 10 million a picture, but to have a film screened at cannes. I hope to be able to make enough money to live comfortbaly with my films, however if I don't I have video production and photography to pick up the slack.

The most popular film I have happens to be a mic test that went a little too far. I posted it up in the screengrab section.

Thanks for all the responses, good to know im not the only one to fight this battle.
 
Since you live in Ontario, why not see if the film schools in Toronto--like Humber--have someting to offer you.
 
Do the college thing. You will have many opportunities to shoot in both formats, and possibly soon come to the decision that everything shot in HD looks way better on a CRT than Plasma or LCD. Motion blur aside, footage from a DVX should have legs for quite a few years with newer versions of flat panel CRT's around the corner. :)
 
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I did look into humber, I have been looking for years into various schools. I personally find that doing a quick youtube search will show what caliber of films people are producing. And the vancouver filmschool is by far the best in Canada, but again, I dont have 50+ thousand to spend on someone else telling me how they make movies. If they were that succesful wouldnt they still be doing that? The head of film production at Humber, not doubting his ability, has some production credits from the 1980's. I am sorry but film in the 80's is alot different then film today. And again, 40+ thousand for the 3 years it going to take to do that. Wouldnt it be better off to spend 40-50 thousand on a freakish amount of short films and maybe an extreme low budget feature? I personally am a self teacher. I have read the Filmmaker's handbook, which if anyone hasn't I recomend. It has near all the technical knowledge you would ever want. I am currently doing the dvd film school which is helping understand different camera moves and blocking.

I am at a point where I think, in a 3 year program like humber, I dont know how much they would teach me in the first year to year and half.

" This is a NLE system". Thanks.

But again, like I have said before, this is something I have been struggling with for a long time, because granted you would learn something at filmschool and your guranteed to network with people who have similar interests, but is it worth all the money? When I look at some of the people that inspire me, very few went to film school, or if they did they dropped out and made films on their own. Smith, Rodriguez, Tarrantino, wertmueller, Reitman (granted his father was a director ). Its just a hard descision with mixed opinions. Especially in this day and age when " you have to go to post secondary in order to be successful" " What you want to be an artist? Well you know the mine is hiring" Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

Thanks for listening to my rant,
 
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