FCPX naming conventions/terminology???

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Mickey G

Active member
Could someone please explain to me the logic in FCPX's terminology/naming conventions?*(Events, Projects, Compound clip)

I get what everything is and does but I just don't see how these terms are accurate to describe the roles/functions of these elements in a real world project.

EVENT-When I hear this word I think of a live "event" like a concert or even a wedding. In no way, shape or form can I see how this would describe a commercial, narrative, corporate, etc. PROJECT.

PROJECT-ok so this is now the term for timelines...When I hear the word "project" I think of all the elements that make up just that, a whole project. i.e. music, graphic files, photos, multiple sequences/timelines combined into one master, etc. I don't just think of one edited sequence (What FCPX now calls a "project")

COMPOUND CLIPS-ok so basically this describes nested sequences but we use these as different timelines/sequences...

I just don't get it...I don't think I'm just trying to hold on to old-school terminology, the naming conventions in place just made sense.*
I can't see sitting down with a director or client and hearing them say "open up the car chase compound clip", no they are going to say "open up the car chase sequence" or "open up the Dairy Board Milk project" not "the Dairy Board Milk event"

For the love of God, I'm just trying to see the logic in this...
 
event is nothing but final cut pro documents (capture scratch in older version of final cut pro. project refer to the fcp x project file, compound clip is just like nested sequence
 
Mickey G said:
Could someone please explain to me the logic in FCPX's terminology/naming conventions?*(Events, Projects, Compound clip)
I get what everything is and does but I just don't see how these terms are accurate to describe the roles/functions of these elements in a real world project.
EVENT-When I hear this word I think of a live "event" like a concert or even a wedding. In no way, shape or form can I see how this would describe a commercial, narrative, corporate, etc. PROJECT.
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It doesn’t.

Event - something that happens or is regarded as happening; an occurrence, especially one of some importance

So you have a video clip, a piece of music, a photo. None of them are really related to each other except in the creators mind. They are separate events until they are put in a sequence that is done in a….

Project - something that is contemplated, devised, or planned

So you plan an assembly of those various events to complete a project. When you have finished the project you export a completed movie.

Done.

PROJECT-ok so this is now the term for timelines...When I hear the word "project" I think of all the elements that make up just that, a whole project. i.e. music, graphic files, photos, multiple sequences/timelines combined into One Master, etc. I don't just think of one edited sequence (What FCPX now calls a "project")
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You should because you got it right. See above.

COMPOUND CLIPS-ok so basically this describes nested sequences but we use these as different timelines/sequences...
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Compound - made up of disparate or separate parts or elements (you answered your own question there.)

I just don't get it...I don't think I'm just trying to hold on to old-school terminology, the naming conventions in place just made sense.*
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Sounds to me like you are.

I can't see sitting down with a director or client and hearing them say "open up the car chase compound clip", no they are going to say "open up the car chase sequence" or "open up the Dairy Board Milk project" not "the Dairy Board Milk event"

For the love of God, I'm just trying to see the logic in this...
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I don’t think He has anything to do with this. And when did your client last ask to open the Dairy Milk bin? Maybe if they wanted something from the fridge. :tongue:
 
Yeah I don't see why you'd be expected to teach your client these new terms- I'm guessing they most want to see your cut and get a copy of it at some point when you're done working...

Noah
 
I don’t think He has anything to do with this. And when did your client last ask to open the Dairy Milk bin? Maybe if they wanted something from the fridge. :tongue:[/QUOTE]

Ha this was a "project" in FCP6 I had open while I was writing this post so that just came to mind.

All good points and a great explanation of the terminology. I don't know though, it just seems like change for the sake of change and no real reason for these changes. Maybe it's just me but I seem to have a mental block in grasping these new terms and the logic behind them that relates to media production.
 
NoahK said:
Yeah I don't see why you'd be expected to teach your client these new terms- I'm guessing they most want to see your cut and get a copy of it at some point when you're done working...

Noah
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I'm not expected to teach anyone any terms but its confusing when I am communicating with someone about an edit and we are speaking two different languages. To me the old terminology just stuck and made more sense.

In a lot of cases I completely finish myself and never have another person sit in the edit bay with me so I can call projects, events whatever Iwant but those times when I'm going through edits with a director or someone who isn't familiar with FCPX's terminology, I suspect the communication may get confusing.
 
Well....at first I was just like you.
Now I had already several PROJECTS that received the footage from various EVENTS. Heck, it´s confusing in the beginning and I agree the word EVENT is maybe not the best.

It is especially not really working as a term when you do a 30-second commercial.
But maybe it helps if you think you are building your demo-reel. Every shoot you had was an event. And the reel is your end-of-year project, not a mere sequence; it is indeed a project. You will be able to pull the best shots (marked via favourite tags and keywords) from all events into your reel without the need to import them again. Just plug you drives into your system.

So while it is not the best terminology for people with unique "projects" it makes a lot of sense for people who shoot footage that is used in more then one sequence or shoot over longer periods, like documentaries.

Compound clip: well, the compound clip goes further than the nested sequence I think. you can create a compound clip in your EVENT (let´s call it library, if you want). Then you can throw things in there without even having a sequence or timeline open!! When you sync two or more clips then FCPX will automatically create a synced-compound. So it is used in different ways than a simple nested clip in FCP7.
 
Mickey G said:
I'm not expected to teach anyone any terms but its confusing when I am communicating with someone about an edit and we are speaking two different languages. To me the old terminology just stuck and made more sense.

In a lot of cases I completely finish myself and never have another person sit in the edit bay with me so I can call projects, events whatever Iwant but those times when I'm going through edits with a director or someone who isn't familiar with FCPX's terminology, I suspect the communication may get confusing.
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Well we speak FCPX terminology here now.....it becomes second nature very quickly. After all the word sequence was not totally correct also. timeline is probably the best term for it. Apple though wants to negate the TIME and the LINE. After all FCPX is a database deep down. Metadata is referencing, but actually has no feeling for time.

So while I agree they could have left the terms in place, we very quickly got used to the new terms. And once you worked in FCPX and have to come back to FCP7 for some old stuff you don´t care what they called it in the last decade, as long as you never ever have to go back there......
 
Every NLE I've ever worked with has used differing and confusing terms to describe things. There is no "correct" way.
 
All great insight and responses.

I've completed well over 15-20 varying projects, events, whatever in FCPX now but the terminology just still seems kind of confusing to me. Especially when I have to have 4 FCPX related folders on the front end directory of my drive:

- FCPX Events
- FCPX (Events not in use)
- FCPX Projects
- FCPX (Projects not in use)

Is that the norm or am I doing something wrong?

Not to get off subject from this post but another thing I'm trying to figure out is if I wanted to share a project file to collaborate with someone out of state or just in another location, what exact files do I need to send them if they have all the associated media on they're own system? I figure this question somewhat relates to the topic in that I don't get the terminology of what I need to transfer to another person in another location. Project files, Event files WTH? Everything I've tried so far results in "files offline" and well since we can't reconnect offline files...

In previous versions of FCP we just needed that one .fcp project file (as long as they had all the media on they're system) which for a massive project would still be significantly small in file size and be able to send via email.
I'm finding FCPX to be a massive media (HD space) hog. The same types of projects that I did in FCP7 that would only grow to be maybe 150GB or now over 300GB in FCPX, I'm referring to everything associated with the project i.e. render files, smoothcam analysis, ProRes media, etc.
 
Mickey G said:
All great insight and responses. I've completed well over 15-20 varying projects, events, whatever in FCPX now but the terminology just still seems kind of confusing to me. Especially when I have to have 4 FCPX related folders on the front end directory of my drive:- FCPX Events- FCPX (Events not in use)- FCPX Projects- FCPX (Projects not in use)Is that the norm or am I doing something wrong?
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FCPX does have issue of "looking" at too many projects/events at once. In a better world with a 12core 16GB RAM machine, I suppose it's not a big deal. But the best way to think of it is you are using a workaround because your computer is limited in what it can handle. We use different virtual drives and use a mounting system. It works well.

Not to get off subject from this post but another thing I'm trying to figure out is if I wanted to share a project file to collaborate with someone out of state or just in another location, what exact files do I need to send them if they have all the associated media on they're own system? I figure this question somewhat relates to the topic in that I don't get the terminology of what I need to transfer to another person in another location. Project files, Event files WTH? Everything I've tried so far results in "files offline" and well since we can't reconnect offline files...
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Let's take a moment to get perspective. FCPX manages files and data for you so that you dont have to! Using FCPX and the "duplicate event" command to transfer your "raw footage" is much better than doing it via normal file swapping.

Transferring projects is SUPER simple. In the project selection window, click once on the project you want to move/copy. Then, select file on the toolbar and look over the options available. Duplicate project is probably your best option. You can then choose what you want to move with it, all events, used events, or no events, and also whether you want render files. It's a simple media manager.

I'm pretty sure you can try to manually file swap the project folder in Finder, but I'd recommend using a disk image or some physical drive to duplicate the project to.Reconnecting is possible and super simple. If the same file was imported separately on the other end, when you select a project and have the inspector open, there is a button called "modify event references". Click this and FCPX intelligently reconnects everything for you (assuming the same files are in an event on that computer).

In previous versions of FCP we just needed that one .fcp project file (as long as they had all the media on they're system) which for a massive project would still be significantly small in file size and be able to send via email. I'm finding FCPX to be a massive media (HD space) hog. The same types of projects that I did in FCP7 that would only grow to be maybe 150GB or now over 300GB in FCPX, I'm referring to everything associated with the project i.e. render files, smoothcam analysis, ProRes media, etc.
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If you don't like or need all the extra stuff, turn some of those options off. You don't need to make optimized media. You don't need to leave background rendering on. These use drive space and are unnecessary.
 
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What the hell does "Bin" have to do with "folders"? What the hell does "Sequence" have to do with "Film"?
No NLE was ever logical using analog film terms for digital files.
 
These terms are all just carried over from iMovie, where they were first used in 2008. I'm a recently retired teacher, have used FCP since 2002, but have also done a few iMovie demos for educational conferences for Apple. I can teach a group of middle schoolers the basics of iMovie in about 15 minutes - adults take about an hour :-)

My take on Apple's (i.e. Randy Ubillos's) thinking is that the terms were designed for the way an amateur would approach this process. Most amateurs usually shoot footage of some event they have attended - a birthday party, a sporting event, a school event, a family trip, Christmas, etc. For them, Event is the most logical term to use for their raw footage. If you have still photos, audio, etc., to add from, say, that trip to California, those would also logically go in the California Summer 2011 Event.

Then think in terms of a personal project, like building a bookshelf in your basement. It's something you would create or assemble. In this case, making a movie is your project. You choose selected footage out of an Event, or even out of multiple Events, and build a movie. I always taught that Project just meant - Your Movie.

I had some ongoing projects to finish in FCP7 so I just started with FCPX about a month ago. I really like it and the transition has been very easy. I'm using the lynda.com tutorials. I'm still trying to train my fingers that they don't have to do Opt-R every time I pause :-)
 
An "Event" in math, linguistics, engineering, programming, etc, is when two or more variables or elements combine into a unique result.

For example, as the OP stated, a wedding can be an Event, and we call it that linguistically because it is when many people come together to create a unique "result" or "a collection of people that has the unique result of acting out a specific version of a pattern".

If you don't get that, get out of the film business.

Just as boarding my flight in 15 minutes is also an Event. Just as my posting this reply here is an Event.

So I see no confusion in using the term of Event as a unique collection of media assets.

We work on PRODUCTIONS in our field, not Projects. A film is a Production, let's work with that for a moment.

In FCPX we work in Timelines, not Sequences. Forget the terms Sequence and Project as you ever misused them in other NLE's before, let's work with that for a moment, also.

We have 3 types of Timelines: Clip, Compound, Project. I can use a Clip timeline to make corrections, adjustments, etc, to a specific clip.
Here's a perfect example.
http://www.fcp.co/forum/7-how-to-tutorials/2585-a-quick-audio-cleanup-tip
Very easy to understand.

I can use Compound timelines to combine multiple assets into a self contained container for many purposes. Very easy to understand. I will use Project timelines to ASSYMBLE my final collection of Clip and Compound timelines for final output. Very easy to understand.

What is so confusing?

Seems nit picky to me, considering we've been using confusing and misleading labels for things in NLE's for over a decade now.
 
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ddixon said:
My take on Apple's (i.e. Randy Ubillos's) thinking is that the terms were designed for the way an amateur would approach this process. Most amateurs usually shoot footage of some event they have attended - a birthday party, a sporting event, a school event, a family trip, Christmas, etc. For them, Event is the most logical term to use for their raw footage. If you have still photos, audio, etc., to add from, say, that trip to California, those would also logically go in the California Summer 2011 Event.
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This +1 Could not agree more.

Fact is noone outside of the FCPX ecosystem is going to use the term "Event" or "Compound Clip" in the way we now use the term "Sequence" and "Project". Whether or not these original terms were accurate or not doesn't really matter, they were in place and made sense to a lot of people. If I start referring to my commercial and narrative work to clients/directors as "Events" they are going to look at me like I lost it.

I welcome change and simplicity but not change for the sake of change, these new terms just seem out of place and I just don't see a point to these changes other than to bring Final Cut Pro more in line with the iMovie crowd (for better or worse)
We can try and spin these definitions of these words to fit within the post-production world but I just don't make the connection sorry. Will this prevent me from using FCPX? No, Is this nitpicky? maybe but I just feel like I spent the past 7 or so years of my life learning a language and now Apple decides that language is now useless and comes up with a new one…I'm just asking why??

A lot of things Apple has done with FCPX and most of the things they do as a company I'm usually like "oh yes, I see the light, genius, why didn't anyone else do that?" This new terminology not so much...
 
Let's take a moment to get perspective. FCPX manages files and data for you so that you dont have to! Using FCPX and the "duplicate event" command to transfer your "raw footage" is much better than doing it via normal file swapping.

Transferring projects is SUPER simple. In the project selection window, click once on the project you want to move/copy. Then, select file on the toolbar and look over the options available. Duplicate project is probably your best option. You can then choose what you want to move with it, all events, used events, or no events, and also whether you want render files. It's a simple media manager.

I'm pretty sure you can try to manually file swap the project folder in Finder, but I'd recommend using a disk image or some physical drive to duplicate the project to.Reconnecting is possible and super simple. If the same file was imported separately on the other end, when you select a project and have the inspector open, there is a button called "modify event references". Click this and FCPX intelligently reconnects everything for you (assuming the same files are in an event on that computer).
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I agree, transferring an entire project to another drive or computer is way easier and more manageable in FCPX than in any previous FCP. My question is if another person already has the media files on they're machine, what do I need to send them so they can see my event as its been catalogued and then see my edits up to that point? Let's say they are in another state and transferring massive amounts of data is out the question. Alls I'd like to do is send a small project file ala FCP5,6,7 etc.

If you don't like or need all the extra stuff, turn some of those options off. You don't need to make optimized media. You don't need to leave background rendering on. These use drive space and are unnecessary.
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I don't have any of that stuff turned on, I keep all that auto analysis stuff turned off but when its all said and done, "Events" in FCPX are taking up massive amounts of storage space compared to similar "Projects" in FCP6,7. I can't figure out why. I'm just referencing to pre-made ProRes clips and not copying to the events folder. The same way I do in FCP7. Also I keep BG render turned off and do a manuel render when I'm ready, same as I do in FCP7 so again I don't get why X seems to be such a media hog but every project just chews up disk space. Maybe I have something turned on thats creating more files but I've triple checked everything, maybe its just the nature of FCPX idk
 
First of all, I never tried to "spin these definitions of these words", I gave factual, straight definitions.

Since you're running the FCSvr database underneath every Event and Project, yes, it eats up more space, but I'm not seeing tons of space being eaten up. But yes, the database is holding a lot more information, it's a real database, not just an xml file like before, and it's holding many features and metadata we don't have access to yet at this time, so it's going to eat up some space.

As for optical flow, I've applied it to the same clip in Motion 4, 5, and FCP X, and it's the same amount of space used up.

The most important thing to remember is, you can't try to use FCP X like you used FCP legacy versions, or you'll simply not get it. It is what it is, the terms are what they are, the workflow is what it is.
 
I'm not seeing FCP X "hog" all that much space with the project database files, and the extra space it does use for the database and other functions, I'm glad it does.

Here's what I don't get, if you ask a question in a very aggressive, negative way, then attack the factual answer, why use FCP X? You obviously have major problems with it, so my advice would be to move to MC or PPro.

FCP X is what it is, learn it and love using it, or move on to something else. I don't understand the going on and on and on and on after 6 months about what folks don't like about it. Make a decision and stick with it.

"Why" is a linguistically loaded question that is open ended with no solid answer. What's the point in asking it. FCP X is what Apple made it to be. Like it or leave it, it's very simple.
 
Mickey G said:
If I start referring to my commercial and narrative work to clients/directors as "Events" they are going to look at me like I lost it.
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In my experience non-editors don't know what the **** anyways, so why would this be a concern? If I show my timeline to someone I am not going to give them a detailed play-by-play of what's happening, I just play it and people understand they are watching edited video. "And he opens up the bin, opens up the sequence, hits play, timecode start!"

All these terms are entirely arbitrary and I could call it a blargle and nobody would care as long as the work was still good.
 
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