Alvise Tedesco
Well-known member
..I remember a dance performance at a yoga center..
F55: F55 On My Dining Room Table
- Thread starter nsoltz
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..I remember a dance performance at a yoga center..
We're you there when my scarlet ruined a dance performance? Or just read about me bitching?
Alvise Tedesco
Well-known member
We're you there when my scarlet ruined a dance performance? Or just read about me bitching?
No no, I just read your original posts on reduser. I have a Scarlet too and I was then worried. I have had occasionally my problems too on close position long dialogues, but your yoga story was memorable (no offence obviously).
And comes to mind when you hear C500 and F55 aren't silent at all (although Mitch says F55 right now is improving)
Cheers
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bruceallen
Well-known member
OK, I have a bunch of questions... not sure how many can be answered with non-final hardware but I'd love it if you could answer them:
1. What does the color look like? I know the color filter array has the F65 wide gamut but that doesn't necessarily mean it handles subtle colors better. Is it like the F65? To me, F65 kicks ass in daylight, but tends towards RED-like skin tones in night / poor CRI conditions in all the test stuff I've seen. Canon, for example, has wider-band color filters in their DSLRs and very good processing that's why their stuff looks generally good in mixed lighting, I think.
2. Is the fan on the RAW recorder or on the body? EG is there a fan when you're NOT recording RAW - eg just to internal media? Darn that fan. I hate fans.
3. How does high speed stuff look? My guess is that up to 60p you will get awesome quality, then after that a slight increase in moire etc. Like with the FS700 in 120fps mode... even though it's 1080p it doesn't deliver 1080p worth of detail. Or is it better than the FS700's 120p mode?
eg scroll down to the charts here:
http://provideocoalition.com/awilt/story/high_speed_and_low_light_with_the_nex-fs700/
4. Dynamic range compared to Alexa of course
Thanks guys!
Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
1. What does the color look like? I know the color filter array has the F65 wide gamut but that doesn't necessarily mean it handles subtle colors better. Is it like the F65? To me, F65 kicks ass in daylight, but tends towards RED-like skin tones in night / poor CRI conditions in all the test stuff I've seen. Canon, for example, has wider-band color filters in their DSLRs and very good processing that's why their stuff looks generally good in mixed lighting, I think.
2. Is the fan on the RAW recorder or on the body? EG is there a fan when you're NOT recording RAW - eg just to internal media? Darn that fan. I hate fans.
3. How does high speed stuff look? My guess is that up to 60p you will get awesome quality, then after that a slight increase in moire etc. Like with the FS700 in 120fps mode... even though it's 1080p it doesn't deliver 1080p worth of detail. Or is it better than the FS700's 120p mode?
eg scroll down to the charts here:
http://provideocoalition.com/awilt/story/high_speed_and_low_light_with_the_nex-fs700/
4. Dynamic range compared to Alexa of course
Thanks guys!
Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
Hi Bruce
Based on very limited time with a pre-release camera, I'll give you some impressions. Since Timur and I joined on this quick look, I imagine he will chime in as well.
1) I would need more testing really to understand the color gamut and its possibilities a lot better. Remember that I am working with pre-release firmware, pre-release codecs and pre-release RawViewer app. Having said that, I think the colors in the one skin tone test we ran outdoors in 4K Raw looked very F65-like. Note that in all our tests, the only change we made to camera settings was too turn off sharpening. I think Sony applies too much sharpening by detault and as a result, I always keep sharpening off . Back on topic. seeing an F5 and F55 side by side tonight at Abel (the same F5 and F55 that I had the opportunity to test), I think the F55 has more accurate color rendition.
We only shot outdoors on a very cloudy day. I had wanted to set up some kinos indoors testing both daylight and indoor bulbs, but had to get the camera back too fast.
2) Fan is subject to new firmware. When the Raw Recorder was attached, fan on Raw recorder kicked in only after a bit of use of the Raw recorder. There are fans both on camera and on the raw recorder. I thought the fan on camera was pretty quiet. Fan on recorder is still subject to firmware changes but somewhat quiet. I honestly cannot say how much of an issue either or both fan will be. I think it is manageable. Real experience with a release camera will tell.
3) High speed was not implemented in the pre-relese firmware so we couldn't test it. That was very disappointing to me.
4) Dynamic range-- Again, we did not shoot a chart. Just eyeballing it, DR should equal or exceed Alexa.
Sorry I really don't have specifics but was up against time constraint as well as pre-relase everything.
Ned
Based on very limited time with a pre-release camera, I'll give you some impressions. Since Timur and I joined on this quick look, I imagine he will chime in as well.
1) I would need more testing really to understand the color gamut and its possibilities a lot better. Remember that I am working with pre-release firmware, pre-release codecs and pre-release RawViewer app. Having said that, I think the colors in the one skin tone test we ran outdoors in 4K Raw looked very F65-like. Note that in all our tests, the only change we made to camera settings was too turn off sharpening. I think Sony applies too much sharpening by detault and as a result, I always keep sharpening off . Back on topic. seeing an F5 and F55 side by side tonight at Abel (the same F5 and F55 that I had the opportunity to test), I think the F55 has more accurate color rendition.
We only shot outdoors on a very cloudy day. I had wanted to set up some kinos indoors testing both daylight and indoor bulbs, but had to get the camera back too fast.
2) Fan is subject to new firmware. When the Raw Recorder was attached, fan on Raw recorder kicked in only after a bit of use of the Raw recorder. There are fans both on camera and on the raw recorder. I thought the fan on camera was pretty quiet. Fan on recorder is still subject to firmware changes but somewhat quiet. I honestly cannot say how much of an issue either or both fan will be. I think it is manageable. Real experience with a release camera will tell.
3) High speed was not implemented in the pre-relese firmware so we couldn't test it. That was very disappointing to me.
4) Dynamic range-- Again, we did not shoot a chart. Just eyeballing it, DR should equal or exceed Alexa.
Sorry I really don't have specifics but was up against time constraint as well as pre-relase everything.
Ned
Nate Weaver
Veteran
So wait, shooting S-Log mode is like doing it in a picture profile on the F3, where you have access to things like sharpening? Oy.
bruceallen
Well-known member
Thank you so much for doing this and for the cool report. Thanks also to whoever got you the cam to play with (Mitch?)...
Anyway, much beer is owed. Although, hey... you had an awesome camera on your desk!
BTW, not sure if it's mentioned elsewhere, but as Nate predicted... Resolve 9.1 just got released, with lots of F5 / F55 file format support
Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
Anyway, much beer is owed. Although, hey... you had an awesome camera on your desk!
BTW, not sure if it's mentioned elsewhere, but as Nate predicted... Resolve 9.1 just got released, with lots of F5 / F55 file format support
Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
The problem with getting even my usual 5 hours of sleep is during that period things happen like the release of Resolve 9.1. I knew it was coming with XAVC and Raw support, but I couldn't say anything.
Nate-- it's like the F3 with S-Log Gamma but not exactly. You cannot do a manual wb (Sony calls it Auto White Balance) while in SLog2, only when in a standard or hypergamma. Should you desire, you could tinker with a number of settings and create a custom scene file (that's the term now-- not picture profiles).
I think I may have mentioned somewhere in this thread that Timur and I turned off sharpening, but did nothing else in our tests.
I'll be doing a grade of some of the test shots-- when Tom Wong has the time he will do a real professional colorist grade.
Mitch and Andy did a wonderful job of explaining both cameras' functions at the Abel event. I did enjoy meeting several folks who have been posting on the board.
More to follow. Timur shot a dialog between the two of us looking at the camera and that should be available possibly even today. I'm going to get to footage most likely Saturday night.
Ned
Nate-- it's like the F3 with S-Log Gamma but not exactly. You cannot do a manual wb (Sony calls it Auto White Balance) while in SLog2, only when in a standard or hypergamma. Should you desire, you could tinker with a number of settings and create a custom scene file (that's the term now-- not picture profiles).
I think I may have mentioned somewhere in this thread that Timur and I turned off sharpening, but did nothing else in our tests.
I'll be doing a grade of some of the test shots-- when Tom Wong has the time he will do a real professional colorist grade.
Mitch and Andy did a wonderful job of explaining both cameras' functions at the Abel event. I did enjoy meeting several folks who have been posting on the board.
More to follow. Timur shot a dialog between the two of us looking at the camera and that should be available possibly even today. I'm going to get to footage most likely Saturday night.
Ned
Michelle Farrell
Member
Ned, It was great meeting you last night at Able. I brought my gaffer(who also DPs) and she said something that Ive been in denial as of late. I have STILL not seen anything that blows me away with these cameras and for the best of me can not figure out why they went through all this trouble for these 2 cameras but NEVER did send any monitor out from the F5. STRANGE! I am eagerly awaiting Ned's footage which he said that he turned off the sharpening and HOPING that this does wonders. I mean most of the footage looks good but not $25k - $50k incredible. I sometimes almost convince myself that the Sonys look as good as Red or Alexa but so far I have not seen that. Sorry, but thats how I feel.
PS and I REALLY want them to because I am in love with everything else about these Sonys
PS and I REALLY want them to because I am in love with everything else about these Sonys
Nate Weaver
Veteran
Michelle,
The camera needs to get in the hands of some really good people yet. The tech specs (latitude, resolution) of the camera is there, but the work is not, and it won't be there until end of summer at earliest.
The following though is my opinion only, and should be taken with a grain of salt:
Also of GREAT importance is a colorist who understands that Sony has not provided very good looking LUTs to the colorist community, and goes the extra mile to make things look their best.
The way I would characterize Sony currently is that they have incredible specs where they count. Noise (because it impacts latitude and gradability), resolution, understanding and delivery of bit depth. But they fall short on their "aesthetic eye". Canon, Red, Arri, all have very eyes with GREAT taste tweaking their image somewhere in the development process, and also realize their post tools effect that final image (this comment more about Arri & Red). Sony on the other hand provides tons of workflow tools, but I have yet to see official S-Log LUTs from them. Red has famously tweaked their debayering software in an aesthetic sense over and over. I seriously doubt Sony will be doing the same thing for their raw decoding.
In summary, from my experience with my F3, I can tell you the specs are there. It will just take more work and a better eye to get the best image.
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Im writing a blog about it. My honest opinions will be in there. Should be done today some time.
Mitch Gross
Veteran
No problem. We showed the F55 last night sporting a battery mount adapter and a large AB mount brick.
Mitch Gross
Veteran
OK, I have a bunch of questions... not sure how many can be answered with non-final hardware but I'd love it if you could answer them:
1. What does the color look like? I know the color filter array has the F65 wide gamut but that doesn't necessarily mean it handles subtle colors better. Is it like the F65? To me, F65 kicks ass in daylight, but tends towards RED-like skin tones in night / poor CRI conditions in all the test stuff I've seen. Canon, for example, has wider-band color filters in their DSLRs and very good processing that's why their stuff looks generally good in mixed lighting, I think.
2. Is the fan on the RAW recorder or on the body? EG is there a fan when you're NOT recording RAW - eg just to internal media? Darn that fan. I hate fans.
3. How does high speed stuff look? My guess is that up to 60p you will get awesome quality, then after that a slight increase in moire etc. Like with the FS700 in 120fps mode... even though it's 1080p it doesn't deliver 1080p worth of detail. Or is it better than the FS700's 120p mode?
eg scroll down to the charts here:
http://provideocoalition.com/awilt/story/high_speed_and_low_light_with_the_nex-fs700/
4. Dynamic range compared to Alexa of course
Thanks guys!
Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
1 - As noted, these cameras are rototypes and cannot be used as judges of what will be possible with the final release product. That will arrive in just a couple of weeks. I can say that what I've seen so far yields excellent color response, particularly in fleshtones.
2 - Fans are on both. Currently the noise factor is because they wanted to protect the prototypes. The production units should rarely if ever put out noise from the fans. Fun fact: One of the protos had a glitch last night and we shut down the fan completely. Then we kept the camera running for hours into the evening. No problem.
3 - High speed is not yet enabled.
4 - Again, prototypes. Different manufacturers map their chips differently, so numbers are meaningless beyond a certain point. But I would say that currently there is a tiny bit more usable range (to my taste) in the Alexa. A lot more than in the Red cameras.
Mitch Gross
Veteran
Ned, It was great meeting you last night at Able. I brought my gaffer(who also DPs) and she said something that Ive been in denial as of late. I have STILL not seen anything that blows me away with these cameras and for the best of me can not figure out why they went through all this trouble for these 2 cameras but NEVER did send any monitor out from the F5. STRANGE! I am eagerly awaiting Ned's footage which he said that he turned off the sharpening and HOPING that this does wonders. I mean most of the footage looks good but not $25k - $50k incredible. I sometimes almost convince myself that the Sonys look as good as Red or Alexa but so far I have not seen that. Sorry, but thats how I feel.
PS and I REALLY want them to because I am in love with everything else about these Sonys
I honestly do not feel that any of the material put out there yet by Sony does the cameras justice. There's a great deal of quality and capability available.
Nate Weaver
Veteran
Vehemently agree. The Dig/Steve Lawes thing is about the only thing that comes close I think.
I simply hope that some bigger jobs take a chance on it sooner rather than later.
Michelle Farrell
Member
For the first time I am back to the "Red camp(cant afford Alexa)" BUT if these Sonys can produce visuals as in something simple as the Winter's Bone trailer(no need for Spiderman/super FX crazy stuff) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE_X2pDRXyY - it would be a no brainer for Sony. I LOVE the look and feel of Winters Bone and personally could not tell the difference form film. My fingers are crossed for the new Sonys for they can solve a lot of problems. I guess more will be revealed.
hscully
Veteran
Pretty sure Winter's Bone was shot on a Red One. I thought Dig was beautiful. I thought the highlights in the coffee shop scene were really really great. I'm sure some of the stuff they did, like the bar scenes and the dark room were there just to show you how you can push the footage around. I'm really looking forward to these cameras and what they can do.
Liam Hall
Veteran
I was by told a Sony big cheese HFR will be enabled before end June.
My question for you Mitch is any idea on how quickly these cameras will come off the production line? I think Sony will sell shed loads of these if they can get them out to market.
Mitch Gross
Veteran
Winter's Bone was shot on a RED One rented from AbelCine.