F5: F5 vs F3 - what are the differences

eddavid

eddavid

Carbonite Member
Trying to see if getting the F5 is worth the price of the getting it with the f3 which may be close to 30k once you get the cards, 4k recorder, etc. Seeing the differences in the sensor, motion, signal to noise, all those things in terms of a comparison to the F3.

Does anyone know off the tops of their heads? Is the sensor different in the F5 than the F3. I assume all this knowledge is floating around the web more. I know it also has s-log2 - what is the advantages of that over s-log 1?

Also it's a little lighter and better made, and of course has a better internal codec.

I can't wait to try this thing out once it comes up . And maybe Sony could give a credit to people who purchases the s log at full price towards the camera. Wish on a star.



Here's what I pulled from B&H
Sony F3
Image Device Super 35mm Exmor CMOS Image Sensor (23.6 x 13.3 mm)
Picture Elements 1920 x 1080 (Effective)
Lens Mount Sony FZ
PL Mount (with supplied lens mount adapter)
Signal-to-Noise Ratio 63 dB (typical)
Horizontal Resolution Not specified by manufacturer
Sensitivity F11 @ 2000 lux, ISO 800, 89.9% Reflectance (typical)
Minimum Illumination Not specified by manufacturer
Signal System NTSC / PAL
Built-in Filters Neutral Density: CLEAR, 1/8, 1/64
LCD Monitor 3.5" Hybrid-type 16:9 Color LCD Monitor
Approx. 921,000 effective pixels
Speaker Mono
Viewfinder 0.45", Aspect Ratio 16:9
Shutter Speed 1/32 - 1/2000 sec
Slow Shutter (SLS): 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8-frame accumulation
Gain Selection -3, 0, 3, 6, 9, 12, 18 dB, AGC
White Balance Preset, Memory A, Memory B/ATW
Memory Card Slot ExpressCard/34 (x2)
Recording Format MPEG-2 Long GOP
HD HQ mode: VBR, maximum bit rate: 35 Mb/s, MPEG-2 MP@HL
HD SP mode: CBR, 25 Mb/s, MPEG-2 MP@H-14
SD mode: DVCAM

Audio:
Linear PCM (2ch, 16-bit, 48-kHz)
Frame Rates NTSC area:
HD HQ mode: 1920 x 1080/59.94i, 29.97p, 23.98p
1440 x 1080/59.94i, 29.97p, 23.98p
1280 x 720/59.94p, 29.97p, 23.98p
HD SP mode: 1440 x 1080/59.94i, 23.98p
SD mode: 720 x 480/59.94i, 29.97p
PAL area:
HD HQ mode: 1920 x 1080/50i, 25p
1440 x 1080/50i, 25p
1280 x 720/50p, 25p
HD SP mode: 1440 x 1080/50i
SD mode: 720 x 576/50i, 25p
Slow & Quick Motion Function
1 to 30 fps @ 1920 x 1080 (17 to 30 fps in dual-link mode)
1 to 60 fps @ 1280 x 720 (17 to 60 fps in dual-link mode)
Recording/Playback Time HQ Mode:
Approx. 100 min with SBP-32 (32 GB) memory card
Approx. 50 min with SBP-16 (16 GB) memory card
SP/SD Mode:
Approx. 140 min with SBP-32 (32 GB) memory card
Approx. 70 min with SBP-16 (16 GB) memory card
Audio Dynamic Range Not specified by manufacturer
Audio Signal Format 2-channel 16-bit, 48 kHz linear PCM uncompressed
Audio Frequency Response Not specified by manufacturer
Signal to Noise Ratio Not specified by manufacturer
Input and Output Connectors SDI: BNC (x1 Output)
Dual Link HD-SDI: BNC x2 (x1 Output)
Composite: BNC (x1 Output)
HDMI: HDMI Type A (x1 Output)
FireWire: IEEE 1394 6-pin (x1 Input/Output)
Line/Mic: 3-pin XLR (x2 Input)
Audio: RCA x2 (x1 Output)
Timecode: BNC (x1 Input, x1 Output)
Genlock: BNC (x1 Input)
USB: Standard A-Type (x1), Mini B-Type (x1)
Headphone: 3.5mm Stereo Mini (x1 Output)
Remote: 8-pin
DC Input: 4-pin XLR (male)
Power Requirements 12V DC
Power Consumption 24W (Typical)
Operating Temperature 32 - 104°F (0 - 40°C)
Dimensions (WxHxD) 5.9 x 7.4 x 8.3" (15.1 x 18.9 x 21 cm) (protrusion not included)
Weight 5.3 lb (2.4 kg) (camera only)








SONY F5

Sensor Type Super 35mm equivalent single-chip CMOS
Pixels Total: 11.6 MP
Effective: 8.9 MP
Sensitivity Luminance: 2000 lx, 89.9% reflectance
Video Gamma: T13 @24p (3200K light source)
S-Log2 Gamma: ISO 2000 (D55 light source)
Dynamic Range 14 stops
Signal to Noise Ratio 57dB (Video Gamma, 24p, Noise Suppression OFF)
Recording
Video Recording Format MPEG-2 Long GOP
HD 422 mode: CBR, 50 Mbps max, MPEG-2 422P@HL
Audio Recording Format Linear PCM (2 ch, 24-bit, 48-kHz)
Recording Modes XAVC 2K: 2048 x 1920 at 23.98p, 24p, 25p, 29.97p, 50p, 59.94p
XAVC HD: 1920 x 1080 at 23.98p, 25p, 29.97p, 50p, 59.94p
MPEG4 SStP: 1920 x 1080 at 23.98p, 24p, 25p, 29.97p
MPEG2 HD: 1920 x 1080 at 50i, 59.94i, 23.98p, 25p, 29.97p
MPEG2 HD: 1280 x 720 at 50p, 59.94p
Shutter Speed 1/24s to 1/6,000s
Shutter Angle 4.2 - 360°(electrical shutter)
Slow Shutter 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8 frame accumulation
Slow & Quick Motion Function XAVC HD/2K: 1-120p (NTSC) at 23.98p, 29.97p
XAVC HD/2K: 1-100p (PAL) at 25p
White Balance Preset (3200K, 4300K, 5500K), Memory, ATW
Gain -3, 0, 3, 6, 9, 12, 18 dB, AGC
Gamma Curve Standard (x6)
HG1, HG2, HG3, HG4, HG7 and HG8
S-Log2 Gamma
Interface
Memory Cards SxS (x2, ExpressCard 34 slots)
SD card slot (x1)
Video Output HD-Y or HD Sync (tri-level) V1.0
Analog Composite (VUP)
HD-SDI Output SDI 1/2 Line Output, SDI 3/4 Monitor Output (character on/off)
Timecode TC IN/OUT switchable (x1)
Genlock BNC input (x1)
HDMI A Type output (x1)
Audio Input: XLR-type 3-pin with Line/Mic/Mic +48V/AES/EBU selectable (x2, female)
Output: phono jack (CH-1, CH-2)
Headphone: Stereo mini jack (x1)
Speaker: monaural
USB USB device, Mini-B (x1)
USB host, type-A (x1)
Wi-Fi USB host, type-A (x1)
Shutter BNC (x1)
DC Output 4-pin (x1), 11 V to 17 V DC (MAX 2.0A) w/ battery adapter
Remote 8-pin (x1)
General
Lens Mount FZ-mount, PL-mount (with supplied adapter)
Built-in Filters Clear, 0.9 (1/8 ND), 1.8 (1/64 ND)
Power Requirements DC 12 V (11 V to 17.0 V)
Power Consumption Approx .24 W (while recording XAVC HD 60p, EVF Off, LCD monitor Off, HD-SDI On)
Battery Operating Time With BP-FL75: approximately 160 minutes
With BP-GL95A: approximately 230 minutes
Operating Temperature 32 ~ 104° F (0 ~ 40° C)
Storage Temperature -4° ~ +140° F (-20° ~ +60° C)
Dimensions Without protrusions: 7.13 x 7.88 x 12.25" (15.1 x 18.9 x 21 cm)
Weight Body only: 4.88 lb (2.2 kg)






Sony F55



Sensor
Sensor Type Super 35mm equivalent single-chip CMOS with global shutter
Pixels Total: 11.6 MP
Effective: 8.9 MP
Sensitivity Luminance: 2000 lx, 89.9% reflectance
Video Gamma: T11@24p (3200K light source)
S-Log2 Gamma: ISO 1250 (D55 Light source)
Dynamic Range 14 stops
Signal to Noise Ratio 57dB (Video Gamma, 24p, Noise Suppression OFF)
Recording
Video Recording Format MPEG-2 Long GOP
HD 422 mode: CBR, 50 Mbps max, MPEG-2 422P@HL
Audio Recording Format Linear PCM (2 ch, 24-bit, 48-kHz)
Recording Modes XAVC 4K: 4096 x 2160 at 23.98p, 25p, 29.97p, 50p, 59.94p
XAVC QFHD: 3840 x 2160 at 23.98p, 25p, 29.97p, 50p, 59.94p
XAVC 2K: 2048 x 1920 at 23.98p, 24p, 25p, 29.97p, 50p, 59.94p
XAVC HD: 1920 x 1080 at 23.98p, 25p, 29.97p, 50p, 59.94p
MPEG4 SStP: 1920 x 1080, 23.98p/24p/25p/29.97p
MPEG2 HD: 1920 x 1080 at 50i, 59.94i, 23.98p, 25p, 29.97p
MPEG2 HD: 1280 x 720 at 50p, 59.94p
Shutter Speed 1/24s to 1/6,000s
Shutter Angle 4.2 - 360°(electrical shutter)
Slow Shutter 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8 frame accumulation
Slow & Quick Motion Function XAVC 4K/QFHD: 1-60p (NTSC)
XAVC 4K/QFHD: 1-50p (PAL)
XAVC HD/2K: 1-180p (NTSC), 23.98p/29.97p with option
XAVC HD/2K: 1-150p (PAL), 25p with option
XAVC HD: 1-60p (NTSC)
XAVC HD: 1-50p (PAL)
White Balance Preset (3200K, 4300K, 5500K), Memory, ATW
Gain -3, 0, 3, 6, 9, 12, 18 dB, AGC
Gamma Curve Standard (x6)
HG1, HG2, HG3, HG4, HG7 and HG8
S-Log2 Gamma
Interface
Memory Cards SxS (x2, ExpressCard 34 slots)
SD card slot (x1)
Video Output HD-Y or HD Sync (tri-level) V1.0
Analog Composite (VUP)
HD-SDI Output HD mode: SDI 1/2 Line Output, SDI 3/4 Monitor Output (character on/off)
4K mode: SDI 1/2/3/4 Line Output (character on/off), HD-SDI/3G-SDI switchable
Timecode TC IN/OUT switchable (x1)
Genlock BNC input (x1)
HDMI A Type output (x1)
Audio Input: XLR-type 3-pin with Line/Mic/Mic +48V/AES/EBU selectable (x2, female)
Output: phono jack (CH-1, CH-2)
Headphone: Stereo mini jack (x1)
Speaker: monaural
USB USB device, Mini-B (x1)
USB host, type-A (x1)
Wi-Fi USB host, type-A (x1)
DC Output 4-pin (x1), 11 V to 17 V DC (MAX 2.0A) w/ battery adapter
Remote 8-pin (x1)
General
Lens Mount FZ-mount, PL-mount (with supplied adapter)
Built-in Filters Clear, 0.9 (1/8 ND), 1.8 (1/64 ND)
Power Requirements DC 12 V (11 V to 17.0 V)
Power Consumption Approx. 25 W (while recording XAVC 4K 60p, EVF Off, LCD monitor Off, 4K SDI On)
Battery Operating Time With BP-FL75: approximately 150 minutes
With BP-GL95A: approximately 210 minutes
Operating Temperature 32 ~ 104° F (0 ~ 40° C)
Storage Temperature -4° ~ +140° F (-20° ~ +60° C)
Dimensions Without protrusions: 7.13 x 7.88 x 12.25" (15.1 x 18.9 x 21 cm)
Weight Body only: 4.88 lb (2.2 kg)
 
Thanks but the article doesn't really say much about the difference between the sensor on the F5 and F3. Seems that the color science is similar?

To me it may not be worth the price of the upgrade - I'm now thinking of just keeping the F3s and having 2 Red One MXs and 2 BMCs as my next purchase, not opting for the F5 which would cost around 25k when all is said and done. Not really feeling that much different about the sample footage I've seen from the F55 vs stuff I am getting with the F3 - which is a camera workhorse that I love. There is a very distintive look in terms of motion that the cameras seem to share as well as color matrix.

I've been loving the looks I can get with the matrix off - so I'm curious to see sample footage this way that doesn't have that Sony "look".
 
Last edited:
I hear ya Ed, I still love the image from my F3, zero complaints in that department. Even if the F5 produced "only" the exact same image as the F3 plus the increased DR with Slog2 I'd be interested in it. The draw to the F5 for me is that it would be the F3 plus a 444 Gemini(compressed) built in, a FS700(at 120fps) built in. The myriad of internal codecs is huge as well, from 8bit xdcam HD to 10bit SR444, your covered. Right now I have no need for 4K but when the need does arise the RAW recorder can always be rented or bought down the line.

Thanks again for recommending Marshall to me, everything went great on the shoot.

-Bill
 
The sensors are different between all three cameras: F3, F5 and F55. The CFA between the F3 and F5 are similar if not the same, and geared towards REC709 while the F55 is geared towards exceeding film color gamut.

At a very high level the benefits of the F5 over the F3 are:

F5 will do higher bitrate recording internally for HD unlike the F3
F5 will do 4k RAW with AXS recorder
F5 does high frame rates
F5 does 2k XAVC in 10-bit in high bitrate

If you currently own RED, then I don't see the point of the F5 - especially if you already own a F3.
 
Star,
You seem to be really immersed in the features, science of all of this. How do you visualize the F55 vs Epic bullet list?
Thanks.
 
Yea F3 with Samurai is pretty good enough for my needs. Don't get me wrong - the F5 and F55 look amazing. But to me it's not worth the 25k to get there. The extra stop of dynamic range and the lower signal to noise ratio may be nice, as well as of course higher frame rates - but for well I guess around 20k with batteries and cards (if you don't get the add-on) --- hmmmm maybe if I sell the f3 then its a 10k upgrade. :)

But still, even that. Its a tough call. I went for the Red MX used because it was really at a great price point and its the resolution increase is really nice and the motion of the image is great. The skin tones out of the box even with Red Color3 don't really compare to the F3 with color matrix off and using s log. But the motion and resolution are really something special. Also the 2 minute boot time is pretty damn annonying :) But still the images out of the Red One have an organic quality to them that in my mind is really quite pleasing. And it's a heavier camera so handheld looks better and more like the film cameras we're used to seeing like the Arri 435

The one thing I wish for the F5 and F55 is an increase in perceived resolution. The motion of the cameras look similar to the F3- so that's pretty much it. Is it worth the 12k it would cost to sell a f3 and buy the f5. We'll see.
 
Nevermind - I think you can get the F3 up and running for around 17k. If I can sell my F3 for 8k - that's not that bad to get a nice internal codec, higher speed capability, increased dynamic range and more. Okay time to preorder.
 
eddavid said:
Nevermind - I think you can get the F3 up and running for around 17k. If I can sell my F3 for 8k - that's not that bad to get a nice internal codec, higher speed capability, increased dynamic range and more. Okay time to preorder.
Click to expand...

Yup, made a pre-order with Abel last month. Maybe we should all stagger when we put our F3's on the market so there isnt a flood and we actually only get 8K. As my F3 is my only S35 camera, I wont be selling till I get a phone call that the new F is in stock.
 
LeavingTheCandy said:
Star,
You seem to be really immersed in the features, science of all of this. How do you visualize the F55 vs Epic bullet list?
Thanks.
Click to expand...

Epic:
Rolling Shutter
5K raw
96fps Full-Frame 5K
300fps Cropped Sensor
12.5 stops DR
Good Colour (keeps improving)
RedMag Media
Loud Internal Fan
Redvolt Batteries
Handheld Ergonomics BAD
Cheaper

F55:
Global Shutter
4K raw, 4K 10-bit, 2K 10-bit, HD 10-bit
60fps Full-Frame 4K
240fps Full-Frame @ 2K raw
14 stops DR
Wider colour gamut than film
SxS Pro+ and AXS Media
Quiet Internal fan (with noisy raw recorder fan)
Integrated V-mount Battery System
Handheld Ergonomic (looks) GOOD
More Expensive


I'd say that covers the basics, the Epic is obviously the older camera - and in this digital day and age, that tends to make the difference performance-wise. Both cameras will make superlative image-making machines.
 
Thanks for the sensible comparison. About the only thing I see on the F55 that excites me is more DR and wider color gamut.
What about post-workflow? How will Sony RAW be debayered/processed?
 
Grug said:

Epic:
Rolling Shutter
5K raw
96fps Full-Frame 5K
300fps Cropped Sensor
12.5 stops DR
Good Colour (keeps improving)
RedMag Media
Loud Internal Fan
Redvolt Batteries
Handheld Ergonomics BAD
Cheaper

F55:
Global Shutter
4K raw, 4K 10-bit, 2K 10-bit, HD 10-bit
60fps Full-Frame 4K
240fps Full-Frame @ 2K raw
14 stops DR
Wider colour gamut than film
SxS Pro+ and AXS Media
Quiet Internal fan (with noisy raw recorder fan)
Integrated V-mount Battery System
Handheld Ergonomic (looks) GOOD
More Expensive


I'd say that covers the basics, the Epic is obviously the older camera - and in this digital day and age, that tends to make the difference performance-wise. Both cameras will make superlative image-making machines.
Click to expand...

Well that list is not completely accurate or telling anyways.... You don't have raw build-in in the F55. That will set up back 6k dollars. But then you don't have XAVCHD in the RED cam, which I guess you could achieve with a semi in-expensive recorder....
DR of the Epic might be 12.5 for now, but for 6k dollars, you'll be hitting 16.5 stops instead with the Dragon sensor (true DR to be determined... there's probably minor issues in both ends of that projected 16.5).

What to do what to do....
 
An interesting thread started here eddavid, thanks. I'm looking forward to reading other F3 owners opinions now the dust created by the introduction of the new F cameras is settling down somewhat.
As I've said before in earlier posts in other threads as attractive as the F5 and F55 would be if I didn't already own a F3 I personally do not see a realistic enough reason to take what I believe would be quite a hit on selling the camera and make the expensive trade up to the F5/55. I can see the trade in / selling price of used F3's really sinking lower than it would truly be worth to let them go. Probably better to keep them as a B camera.
Yes to have 4K would be useful, sometimes, not too many times for me though right now. There's a project we hope to shoot later in 2013 and I am debating whether to rent a 4K camera for that film, or to fall back on my tried and true Aaton Xtera and shoot on film with 4K transfer / timing. There's advantages and disadvantages either way.
But to buy a 4K capable camera and hope that there would be enough work for that capability beyond what my F3 / PIX 240 setup currently produces isn't on the cards......
 
LeavingTheCandy said:
Thanks for the sensible comparison. About the only thing I see on the F55 that excites me is more DR and wider color gamut.
What about post-workflow? How will Sony RAW be debayered/processed?
Click to expand...

Global shutter. Very few cameras have this at all. Certainly not the Epic, Scarlet, Red MX, F5, F3, C300 or anything else in that price range. Imaging getting rid of motion artifacts.

Put the DR and color on top of that, and then add in better internal codecs. Like many F3 owners though I'm not in a position to pony up the money and will stay with the F3 for now.
 
If one has the budget, the jump from the F3 to F55 would be a no brainer. Global Shutter and Color Gamut are the big factors.

A factor to consider in jumping from F3 to F5 is the ability for many of us to shoot a more compact rig. With the multiople high-quality codecs, I personally would have no need for external recorder. I love the Pix240 and the Samurai (a bit less than the Pix), but great not to have another device on camera and drawing power. I could sell the Pix and put money toward some SxS Pro+ cards. But to me F3 to F5 is a close call. If you (and clients) are happy with the HD images you get from the F3 whether to SxS cards or external recorder, maybe go with the F3 a bit longer. It's not like the big leap we made when going from our PD170's or DVX100's or Betacams to our first HD venture.

My more radical thought-- everyone seems to apply good conventional business logic. "If my clients ask for it..." How about a little Steve Jobs logic-- Tell them what they need. Better yet, show them what they need. Let's say you buy the F5 and have a typical client HD shoot. Rent the 4K raw recorder and some cards. Shoot it in 4K and show them what you can do with windowing the 4K image or the added resolution even when delivering HD. And then you hype 4K concluding you pitch with "well, this is a premium product and it commands a premium rate." Won't work all the time, but might be a competitive risk worth taking. I know it's hard to say in a difficult, competitive market but maybe it's not best to chase the bottom all the time.

Ned
 
If the workflow becomes just as easy as prores/dnxhd files that you get from a F3/recorder combo I see great benefit to switch to the F5. It makes the whole shooting experience better with a less bulky camera. Frankly I see very little to complain about when it comes to IQ on the F3 and if I made the switch I wouldn't expect the F5 to give me noticeable better looking images. But a more compact camera body and less stuff to bring is always better and might help you to get more shots out of a shoot.

I would wait and see how users feels about the F5 and how footage looks before making a serious decision.
 
Hi,

im in the same boat not exactly knowing what to do... ;-)
my F3 is hands down a wonderful camera. SLog perfect, with a samurai nice with FCPX.

F5: well, at first i didn't consider it at all, because of rolling shutter, etc..
still frame rates and the ability to loose the samurai would be nice, and if you get some decent money for the F3 not a too
expensive upgrade (probably for the price of a fs700 if you use generic V-mounts and a cheaper viewfinder)

F55: i wish i wish i had bought it from creativeventures.be their intro price was 18.995 Euros, 4.0000(!) less than it is now.
that would have made the difference between the f5 and f55 around 6.000euros only. for that price i'd buy it now right away.
now for 10.000 difference it's a different story. sounds strange, but that's more of a psychological price border for me...

hands down the f55 is a worthy update, the f5 not so much in my opinion.
the client won't pay the difference, in a year the next big thing will be 'round the corner...

so, maybe i won't update.
probably.

still i'd love to have one ;-)))

one also has to consider that the f55 needs the raw recorder to work with all the frame rates. that makes it even more "expensive"...
180frames vs 120 frames isn't that much of a deal when comparing the f5 to the f55 with their internal capabilities...
i highly doubt that the color gammut would make a huge difference to me.
global shutter would. definitely. but htat's not worth 10.000.- dollars.
 
eddavid said:
Yea F3 with Samurai is pretty good enough for my needs. Don't get me wrong - the F5 and F55 look amazing. But to me it's not worth the 25k to get there. The extra stop of dynamic range and the lower signal to noise ratio may be nice, as well as of course higher frame rates - but for well I guess around 20k with batteries and cards (if you don't get the add-on) --- hmmmm maybe if I sell the f3 then its a 10k upgrade. :)

But still, even that. Its a tough call. I went for the Red MX used because it was really at a great price point and its the resolution increase is really nice and the motion of the image is great. The skin tones out of the box even with Red Color3 don't really compare to the F3 with color matrix off and using s log. But the motion and resolution are really something special. Also the 2 minute boot time is pretty damn annonying :) But still the images out of the Red One have an organic quality to them that in my mind is really quite pleasing. And it's a heavier camera so handheld looks better and more like the film cameras we're used to seeing like the Arri 435

The one thing I wish for the F5 and F55 is an increase in perceived resolution. The motion of the cameras look similar to the F3- so that's pretty much it. Is it worth the 12k it would cost to sell a f3 and buy the f5. We'll see.
Click to expand...

Ed, sadly it's going to be more than a 10k upgrade as you'll have real issues selling your F3 at the moment - no one wants them - I was offered 4K plus tax here in the UK - I spent 13k on it last November!
 
I plan on F55 with F3 as second cam and a ongoing marketing tool, to educate clients on the benifits on Sony's CineAlta line. Like Ned said, I am always trying to sell myself and camera. I feel that this will prob be the last 35mm sensor camera I will need. 4k, GS, etc, and the image looks outstanding.
5k dragon, 8k.....to me, its all way too much overkill and 8k is pretty much the peak. We now have cameras and projectors that are surpassing our human eyesite. I think the F55 will age nicely, and the image and work flow will be pleasing for most. There will always be spec freaks but just look at what we have. now Alexa, Sony, Red, they all look great.
 
I think the single most important factor in moving up from an F3 for me would be to have higher frame rates.
I love the DR and even Prores422HQ out of a Samurai is certainly enough to grade from.
However, the thing I most often need is to shoot a sequence in 60 or 120 FP/s at full HD.
I cannot think of a single project of mine recently where that option would not have come in handy at one point or another.
More often that not I end up using a RED for this. But I am not a fan of it's skin tones or roll-off.
Sure would be nice to have it all in one camera.
 
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