F5: F5/55 Firmware Schedule

Douglas Villalba said:
I personally wouldn't buy any product where the features I need or want are not ready at the time I buy it.
Look at the FS700's 4k feature or the F3's S Log $4k down to $800 to FREE.
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True enough I guess.


Liam Hall said:
I think there are a few people in the FS700 forum who will disagree with you.
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Liam I havent been there lately, but what's the consensus... do you have a feel if anyone plans to blow $7000 to get their FS700 to shoot 4k RAW?
 
Liam Hall said:
I think there are a few people in the FS700 forum who will disagree with you.
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I know you're not personally feeling it, but this is what I'd say to them...(having even been unhappy myself with the details of the S-Log promotion)

-They never gave a timeline for the 4K recorder

-They never gave a price. In fact, they were notably vague on the whole thing

I myself read between the lines, and that's one reason why (amongst a few) I didn't ditch my F3 for the 700. I knew that recorder wouldn't show up until the successor to the F3 showed up (their new strategy with 4K having been revealed even by talking about a 4K add-on), and I knew anything less that $4K or $5K was unrealistic. That precedent in price was set by the AJA Quad announcement.

Folks are either going to be unhappy with how long and how much it takes to make their 700 4K-usable, or they're going to be unhappy with how much it takes to get their Scarlet 4K-usable. They're both around 15-17 grand, for starters.
 
Nate Weaver said:
I know you're not personally feeling it, but this is what I'd say to them...(having even been unhappy myself with the details of the S-Log promotion)

-They never gave a timeline for the 4K recorder

-They never gave a price. In fact, they were notably vague on the whole thing

I myself read between the lines, and that's one reason why (amongst a few) I didn't ditch my F3 for the 700. I knew that recorder wouldn't show up until the successor to the F3 showed up (their new strategy with 4K having been revealed even by talking about a 4K add-on), and I knew anything less that $4K or $5K was unrealistic. That precedent in price was set by the AJA Quad announcement.

Folks are either going to be unhappy with how long and how much it takes to make their 700 4K-usable, or they're going to be unhappy with how much it takes to get their Scarlet 4K-usable. They're both around 15-17 grand, for starters.
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Great posts, Nate. Thanks for the Version Up schedule - nice get. I love my C300, but eventually it looks like F5/55 land is where I'm headed...
 
The other point that I don't see, is that a 4K recorder wont make the FS700 a better camera than it is. As a camera, the F3 is much better. Can the FS700 even do S-log?

So adding a 4k recorder to a FS700 is a bit like adding a Ferrari engine to a Camaro. It will still not be a Ferrari. At that rate I would much more spring for a F5 instead.
 
I personally would prefer F5+AXS-5 for 4K over FS700+Adapter(model # is escaping me now)+AXS-5. However, to consider the other side of things-- the combination with the FS700 will be less expensive. If shooting in 4K, the absence of SLog is less relevant since the output would be raw from the sensor anyway.

Ned
 
HXR-IFR5

Let's not dismiss the FS700 just yet. It is extremely foreseeable you will be able to record 4k RAW out of the FS700 via single 3G without the Sony HXR module. Which is my guess as to why Sony is holding out on it (*firmware upgrade). They need to ship some F5/F55 before they circumvent themselves out of potential sales.... well as you know, its all very political. :happy:

So a FS700 +AJA Quad recorder = ~ $12,000. Not bad.

Not sure how 4k over single 3G is possible? Raw signals (which are still bayered) use much less data bandwidth over de-bayered signals and hence the FS700 will be able to output 12 bit RAW whereas most camera's providing outputs are either de-bayered in either RGB 444 or YCbCr 422 and need a lot more bandwidth, and that's in 2k.

Also don't forget by the time you are pulling off raw sensor data and working with that in 10-12 bits you are really paving the way for some flexiblity in post that can potentially yield images from a camera you'd never see under other normal circumstances. (debayering, codec, signal format conversion processes, etc..).
 
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nsoltz said:
I personally would prefer F5+AXS-5 for 4K over FS700+Adapter(model # is escaping me now)+AXS-5. However, to consider the other side of things-- the combination with the FS700 will be less expensive. If shooting in 4K, the absence of SLog is less relevant since the output would be raw from the sensor anyway.

Ned
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What I meant is that the F3 is the better camera, with or without 4K. 4K is just the hype of the moment and given so much importance over much more important things.
 
Adamsenoj said:
The other point that I don't see, is that a 4K recorder wont make the FS700 a better camera than it is. As a camera, the F3 is much better. Can the FS700 even do S-log?

So adding a 4k recorder to a FS700 is a bit like adding a Ferrari engine to a Camaro. It will still not be a Ferrari. At that rate I would much more spring for a F5 instead.
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Well I think the FS700 with 4k raw recorder would make it a better camera than it is. It's limits right now are bit-depth, codec, and signal coversion from RGB to YCbCr.

Any camera where you can record data directly off the sensor and store the data without compression or signal conversion is going to: increase the dynamic range of the camera, improve color sampling, improve image quality, and then add the benefit (or difference) of linear gamma recorded signals over log/curve based gammas and you're talking a completely different camera all together. (Look at what Andromeda did for the DVX100)

My bet is the the FS700 and 4k option will be a lot more powerful than most think and I will still consider it as a viable option for my 4k raw requirement if I don't end up selling my F3 and going to F5/F55.
 
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Here are the official timelines taken from Matt Allard's recent review on the F55:

JapaneseSonyF_Release-1.jpg
 
The XAVC will support 1080 60p at release. I can't read Japanese either but 60p was an option on my pre-release evaluation camera.

Ned
 
nsoltz said:
F55 WILL support XAVC 4K at release

Ned
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thanks... all I can read is... 2013 (Japanese writing) 12 (more Japanese writing)... so hard to tell .... thought I could send it to a friend... but he only speaks American Japanese... he can't read it...
 
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F5 will not do 2K raw at release. F5 will do raw to the AXS-5 device at release (and of course, it will only eventually do 2K XAVC internally).

Ned
 
F55 will eventually do 2K raw to recorder as well. I should have noted that in the post above. We are still awaiting a more official timetable from Sony US in English but would welcome anyone fluent in Japanese who could translate the slide posted in this thread.

Ned
 
The only thing apparent in the Japanese timetable is where it reads 2013 (9) and 2013 (12). Could that mean September and December? Who knows...
 
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