F35 Beginners: Can I do handheld with it? (inc. how to mount it to a tripod)

JMtheDP

Veteran
The first time you lay eyes on an F35 your immediate thought might be "well, that's handheld out the window." It certainly was one of mine.

I was replacing a Sony F900 which, for those who don't know, is a camera that uses the shell and basic layout of a 2/3" broadcast camera. It was designed to make handheld as pleasurable as possible. I still miss it.

However, handheld with the F35, now I have had the time to work with it, is not so bad. Yes, the camera is heavy, BUT it can be quite well balanced which is a lot more than I can say for many DSLR/F3/etc rigs.

Most of the users on here have adapted third party solutions for other cameras to their F35s and I am not going to judge them - if something works for you, it works for you. I wanted to go down the "official" route as much as I could.

If you've read my other posts, you'll see this as a recurring theme, but the F35 works just like its 35mm counterparts. Fortunately, this is one area where the Panavision Genesis and the F35 differ. The Genesis uses Panavision mounts and the F35 uses ARRI ones. Handy, because you can't buy Panavision accessories.

The F35 should have a "riser plate" on the bottom of it. This is a metal plate, around 10mm thick. That is there to make sure the camera is the correct height to take an ARRI bridge plate and leave the lens port the correct distance from it. The F35 will accept a bridge plate from the ARRI 535 or 435. I have an ARRI BP-5 bridge plate, which was designed for the 535 and takes 19mm studio rods.

If you are not familiar with rods and bars, you can find research and information elsewhere but generally there are three standards - 15mm lightweight, 15mm studio and 19mm studio. I strongly recommend F35 users go with 19mm studio, it is very common and strong. 15mm lightweight are the next most common and easy to find parts for, but you'll need to make up a special bracket to get the F35 to take them (a few people bought cameras from places like Otto Nemenz which I believe had these on). 15mm studio I strongly advise against. I believe it is more common in the USA than Europe, but in the UK I have never encountered it. Whatever you pick, you need to make sure all your accessories fit it!

Now, once you have your bridge plate then you will require an ARRI dovetail plate. It is a long plate (usually between 12" and 18") which slots neatly into the bridge plate. This lets you mount and balance the camera. The dovetail plate gets screwed onto your tripod's quick release plate.

For handheld, if you have all of the above, I recommend buying two things: 1. A pair of moose bars (handlebars) and a shoulder support.

The moose bars are easily available. I use Ronford Baker ones. They cost about £250 - £300 but are an industry standard.

The shoulder support could be something simple like a towel, but I use a Ronford baker shoulder support that they developed for the RED. It is a long plate with a curved shoulder pad. It slides into the ARRI bridge plate in place of the dovetail and perches on your shoulder. It is designed to be able to "rock" side to side a little, so it takes account of your shoulder not always being level.

This solution works pretty well for me. I still don't recommend working like this on your own - it is best to get an assistant to lift/take away the camera from your shoulder. However, if you have a fairly balanced setup then this is actually not a bad setup for handheld at all. I have quite an unusual viewfinder system which is not as bad as it looks, but I do recommend anyone without a viewfinder to buy one - I personally find them infinitely better for handheld than a screen. But that's personal preference.

Anyway, here are some pictures for illustration and I hope this has been helpful.

F35 handholding.jpgF35 Handheld 2.jpg

On the left you can see me operating, that's a viewfinder not a brain sucker.

On the right, I am resting the camera on the tripod so hopefully you can see the shoulder pad a little better. Bewildered extra in WWII costume not required for handheld.
 
Just my 2 cents.
I keep hearing you guys complaining that the f35 (withou the hdcam deck) is heavy.
Well Sure it is heavy if you compare it against low end plastic cameras, but put it against any metal camera such as the Alexa, F65 or Red mx and it is the lightest set up of all at around 10 kgs.
 
Mac,

You're quite right. I meant to mention that one brilliant advantage of having a detachable recorder is you can put it elsewhere if you don't need it (A la Alexa M) and then the camera is positively light (too light for my tastes!)

I see the F35 as a replacement for 35mm cameras, in which case it is light, but the point of these threads is for people who may never have used ANY high-end camera, in which case the weight and bulk of it will be a bit of a shock.

I'm pretty sure even with the HDCAM SR deck on though it still weighs less than the D-21 ever did, or the ALEXA studio. Those optical finders are not light.
 
Perhaps my perspective will be of benefit to some who are new to this stuff. I surely was when I got my F35, so hopefully sharing my experiences/mistakes can help out anyone interested in getting into an F35. I'm not a professional DP/videographer, but I have a 20 year career in the film VFX animation biz and wanted to get back to making my own films again. I started with DSLRs, then moved to a Sony FS100, but wanted something better. I had no prior hands on experience with high end 35mm equipment. I've been on a number of film sets, but always as a VFX supervisor, never in the camera department.

When I first got my F35 I tried making it work on lightweight 15mm rail mounted accessories and systems. I've since switched everything over to a 19mm studio Arri style dovetail set up and I echo James' recommendations for this approach. In the end going "heavy" made the camera better balanced and ultimately easier to use for longer stretches. I use an Arri style doveplate shoulder mount as well (adjustable shoulder pad underneath, camera slides back and forth on the rail for balance/positioning). At 12 kilos (26lbs) fully kitted out it weighs about 2x as much as my Sony FS100 shoulder mounted rig did, but it balances so much better due to the flexibility of the system. My adult daughter sometimes operates for me on shoots and even she said that while the F35 is heavier, it's easier to use for longer stretches due to the proper balancing. 19mm systems aren't that much more expensive than good quality 15mm lightweight ones. And if you're a savvy shopper you can pick up used namebrand items that are a little scuffed up from use, but they still have a lot of tread on the tires, so to speak.

I'll try and post some pics of my various configs in a bit.
 
Thanks Keith - some pics of your rig would be great. I have had similar issues with an F3 setup I've been using recently, which does not have a viewfinder. The positioning of the shoulder mount in relation to the LCD means you either have the LCD an inch away from your eyes or it is so far forward your shoulder isn't supporting it, your arms are.

I should stress also that one of the great benefits of moving to a system like the F35 is that most of the accessories and lenses you buy should last for life - 35mm is not going away anytime soon.
 
As requested, here are some pix of my rig set up for sticks and handheld/shoulder.

First, just the basics. I have a cheese with an after market handle on the top, a second top Otto half cheese with a single 15mm rail hole and extra mounting holes. The battery plate is on a third Otto cheese on the back. No IF box. Right now I'm just recording the monitor out.
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Here it is with everything and the kitchen sink. I put the Samurai on top when I work on sticks. If I need an assistant I turn it around so they can pull focus from it. You can see the battery plate set up better in this one.
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Here you can see my 15mm based FF on a 19 to 15 adapter.
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I have a refurbished Hocus wireless FF coming in a few weeks. When that comes I'll retire the manual FF since this setup is too cluttered for my tastes.

This is the riser plate James mentions in his post. It gets the camera to the right height for 19mm rail accessories.
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Here's the handheld configuration. I put the Samurai in the back so the camera isn't so tall & top heavy. It's on a lockable swing arm that attaches onto the 19mm rails. (I hate Noga arms with a pure, undeniable passion.)
DSC_4004.JPG DSC_4003.JPG

If you look closely in several of these pics you'll see my hacked down power cord. It's ugly, but it does the job and it didn't cost me anything.

For really low mode I'll strip everything and just go cam body, handle and Samurai. No pics of that, sorry. Forgot.

Hope this is interesting/useful.
 
Thanks a lot, Keith! Care to elaborate on the shoulder support? Does it slide onto the dovetail? And is that an official Arri bridge plate, or third-party?
 
Thanks Keith for sharing. That RED 18-50 is a really good lens for the money, I had one to begin with although sadly mine was full of mould so I sent it straight back! Rocking the Standard Speeds now and won't look back.
 
Hey mlysbakken-- the shoulder set up is a Tilta Arri dovetail. The handles attahc to the front, the shoulde rpad is adjustable forward and back. The main bridge is just an Arri style dovetail, so the camera just slides onto it like it does onto a tripod with a dovetail bridge. The dovetail plate on the camera (the one with the 19mm rail slots) is also a Tilta. They make good stuff and the price is reasonable. It all works together nicely and it's very quick and easy to go from sticks to shoulder. Slide it off one, slide it onto the other.

James, I agree on the 18-50 value. I'd love me some proper real glass some day, but I need to be somewhat careful about budgets and all. I figure if I get into a production that really needs that level of optics I'll rent for now. I might try and pick up an old Angie 20-120 to get some more reach and for a more vintage look, but I doubt I'd use it much for handheld.
 
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Does anyone know if the red dovetail (made to work with the Red bottom plate) will work with the Arri standard sliding plate. Although a shoulder pad off the rods is nice, one that slid into the sliding plate would be closer to the camera. I have been considering several options like yours keith, but I might just go with nothing but rods for a while and a foam pad on my shoulder, The pad built into the f65 is nice because it actually gets the camera weight down around your shoulder and chest. Red's are much lighter so the rigs don't feel as awkward until you put a camera like a F35 and the camera weight starts to feel like its sitting too far up.

I have seen many ENG operators who could balance rigs on their shoulder, and in turn hold the rather heavy rig for hours.

Somewheres way back Hunter put a Cabrio 19-90 on his F35. To me this was the perfect F35 handheld, ditch all rods and the F35 bottom plate and just use the lens handle and a small pad under the body.
 
I remember trying to put that old red shoulder plate on an arri baseplate- no dice. Maybe with a bit of shaving with a file it would fit.

(p.s. that shoulder mount feels horrible- you may be better off making your own!)
 
Thanks Hunter for the reply. I just got an old aaton handle from Sweeden in the mail, very hard to find by itself. I am waiting for the 19mm dogbone and arri/aaton rosette adapter to put her on the F35 but I thought the handle might feel small for the F35 because it came from a smaller 16mm cam, but the handle seems to be just the right size for the F35. I will post some photos once I get it together but I may just stick with a small pad on the rods.
 
I tried testing out some shoulder mounted shooting without the shoulder pad (just the rails on a towel). It wasn't too bad from a comfort stand point. It did get the whole camera about an inch lower than with the pad, but it wasn't a huge difference in balance- at least not to me. So I'll probably stick with the shoulder pad because I felt like it gave me a little extra lateral support on my shoulder slope. Ultimately it felt like six of one, half a dozen of the other.
 
http://www.gecko-cam.com/sales/brands/tangohead/blue-handle-system/ these guys sell a small arri to aaton rosette which is the secret to connecting to any rod connector. Hard to find genuine aaton handles outside the camera package, I see people selling older aatons without the handles and i wonder if they've been pillaged. I got lucky and got a good deal on a LTR handle that had the square rod, cheaper because others want the 15mm round rod bracket version. In this case I wanted to use a 19mm rod setup so that part doesn't matter.

Keith, I really dig the footage you shot outside your car in the snow. I love the way the camera shows the detail and texture of nature. It's actually a very quick camera to pull out of the bag, turn on and be recording eng style. I really need to get my cables on the inside as bumping the SDI has been the biggest headache.

I found a seller who would give me a 2 and 1/2 inch Hyperdeck cable to go straight from the hyper deck to my F35 port without any extra slack but a small loop. That combined with leaving the D-tap splitter and power cable extra in the lid and just running the ends out to the hyper deck and the DP4, it cleans up nice. Except now I want a right angle 11 pin lemo instead of the one I've got sticking far out of the side of the camera. I found the plug, but, the mods and accessories for the F35 are never-ending, better to spend my time shooting for a while.
 
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Thanks for the kind word on the footage. I was so happy to be able to grab that. The highlight detail is crazy in the data. In post I messed around with the footage by pulling the gamma/offset down to expose for the clouds instead of the by and all that subtlety in the cloud density was there. So cool.

I managed to get me some nice coiled SDI cables with right angles to them and they're so great to work with. I can tuck them up against the body and not have cables all looped out. They're about a foot long when not stretched out, but they can comfortably stretch out to 3 feet. The Hyperdeck's BNC connectors are so slight, they never made me feel comfortable. If BMD just made standard BNC connectors for the Hyperdeck I'd probably pick up another one for those run & run situations. As it is I seriously thought of grabbing a used NanoFlash for the run & gun days, mainly for the size. But the file formats and codecs of that unit would nerf the camera's abilities. Really the Hyperdeck is just about the perfect size and capability, but I just wish it was sturdier. I'd pay a reasonable premium for a Hyperdeck that was built out better.
 
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Got the short hyper deck cable with the right end on it. I would have to use a right angle to reach the lower monitor out. I drilled some notches in my plate so the excess cable can be stored under the lid. Now the 12v comes off the side, goes up under the lid to the quad d-tap and I put the extra hdmi up there too. Now all the cables are on the back of my camera except for the two that come out the side for the EVF. I know this is a bit off topic of the handheld thread but my handheld was getting messed up by cables running all over so I thought I'd show my solution.

I tried spray painting my top plate gray and ended up sanding it off. I will probably have to anodize the aluminum to make it look nice.
 
I still have it, but haven't used in ages, because I only use it when the shoot has handheld and tripod. Most recent shots were all on sticks, so I just used the 15mm baseplate from that I got from bandpro.

The lamparte+tilta rig was great for what it costs. The weakest part is the union between the rig and the sony VCT14 qickrelease. But I think that is to be expected anyway?
 
I tried spray painting my top plate gray and ended up sanding it off. I will probably have to anodize the aluminum to make it look nice.

Nice work! Anodizing is great but if it ends up being too pricey and you just want it black, there is this product called "Plastidip" which is a thick rubberized paint (used for tool handles)- people also use it for the ever popular matte colored car finishes. Pretty cheap stuff actually and looks decent.
 
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