F3 or used Red One MX: pros and cons?

Yeah, I would assume that. Its not a problem with Sony as in Sony Corporation Global, but merely Sony Hong-Kong. They are terrible, but are were I need to buy to get a serviceable unit with warranty. Its really hard for me to come out with 22.8K (!) fo an F3 SLOG enabled with no lenses, 2 batteries and a charger from Sony HK that first, leaves me hanging on for more than 35 minutes on an international call (which they completely forgot), or that, after redialing, asks me to leave my contact information and email, only to not call back or communicate again. To add insult to injury, when a big volume broadcast equipment buyer friend of mine from HK called them with the same enquiry, they immediate replied. There's no Sony Broadcast Macau and we have to suck up with Sony Hong-Kong with that unique "attitude". So what would you do in my position? (Sorry for the rant, needed to vent.)
 
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I think pre/post sale service is very important, especially where you are based. I also shoot in alot of places that are hard to access and it is a godsend to know you have good service to fall back onto (luckily I have been treated well by both Sony and Panasonic over the years).

I was put off buying a RED One due to the fact that, for some years, you had to send the camera/parts back for repair, quite a logistical headache, even from Europe... doesn't this concern you (if you go the RED route)?

We are ok now, as they have opened RED UK... but I think Asia would still have to go via LA?
 
Yes, I think so. At least currently I think that's how the local owners are dealing with. Its something to consider. But I'm the type of guy that would ratter prefer good service while having to pay more with shipping than have to suck up to bad service and attitude but have the convenience of "Local" support and cheaper maintenance...
 
Can someone confirm that Scarlet will now ONLY be 2/3rd, and that the S35 and FF35 versions have been renamed to Epic-S... so when and how much for Epic-S.
 
stockfuel;2425695 I was put off buying a RED One due to the fact that said:
With DHL/FedEx it all depends on RED turnaround...I have heard the occasional horror story with Sony....waiting for parts for 6 - 8 weeks. And have had similar experience myself in the US with Hasselblad.

RED does seem to be very proactive in responding to their owners.

I guess you can have a good or a bad experience based on timing with any company. That is why most pros have backups...sometimes multiple.

Bob
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starcentral said:
Can someone confirm that Scarlet will now ONLY be 2/3rd, and that the S35 and FF35 versions have been renamed to Epic-S... so when and how much for Epic-S.
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At this point only God and JJ and Jarred Land....at least two of them have said no more discussion until product is shipping.

Your guess is as valid as anyone else's at this point.

Bob
 
starcentral said:
Can someone confirm that Scarlet will now ONLY be 2/3rd, and that the S35 and FF35 versions have been renamed to Epic-S
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Months ago that change was made; Scarlet was to be 2/3" and what was originally going to be the Scarlet S35 moved into the Epic line. No formal name as far as I remember, but a name that was tossed around was "Epic-S".

... so when and how much for Epic-S.
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Nobody knows.
 
I'm just trying to catch up on RED nomenclature more than anything... the stuff gives me a headache.

Epic-M - hand made pre-production Epic-X model. No spec difference. (Buy now for $58k)
Epic-X - assembly line ready for prime time Epic model. (To get one, all stages and their brother must take place in sequence)

So WTF is EPIC S35 brain then when referring to Stage 3.5 "trade in your RED One and get Epic S35 Brain..."

What is that one?

(**Sorry off topic I know, I know...)
 
Geez guys, I dunno. I was set on dropping $17k (with taxes) for the F3 (non SLOG for now) and some basic accessories but with the EPIC-'S' (S35 scarlet rebranded whatever its called) coming out after all Epic-X stages are shipped (?maybe this year?) it could mean for "around" the same price I'm shooting 4k instead of 2k with all the same benefits and features of raw shooting.

The full Epic-X is around $28k (once it is available to non-stage peoples), the non-high-frame-rate version of it with HDRx (scarlet rebranded) is rummoured to be around the price of the F3 w. SLOG, $17k without taxes (back to the number stockfuel had guessed in another thread).

Surely whether or not you need 4k it does not make sense to drop the same or nearly same cash on a plain old F3.
 
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Don't forget about this and a decent RAID box with 8 drive bays or more. I would be solely tempted to get a RED EPIC if I were about to buy but don't underestimate the workflow pre-requisites. I'm sure you've thought about it.

There is also the new stance that RED has issued on talking about it's future products. In that whole discussion, in my mind, it has thrown into question the whole reality of the EPIC-S. I'm not convinced it will ship. I think they may be walking away from the whole notion of going for the lower end of their existing market. This move has been in the works since the beginning of the year.
 
Yeah but with F3 & SLOG you still need some way to record it. Something like this is $9000 added to the overall cost of the F3 w. SLOG.

Storage/editing will be an issue with any raw file based editing workflow, so not really a major factor here.
 
The r3d files on the old Red's are only about 30-35 MB/S. No need for an 8 drive raid. Red files play natively at 1/2 resolution on a decent PC with PP CS5.5 with color and DVE effects, etc. with a $300 graphics card. The only time you take a hit is when you render out your finished video and that can be done in batch more with Adobe media encoder so you can do other things at the same time.

Now if want to convert to DPX, etc. and play in real time, then yes, you will need a decent raid.
 
It seems there are a few of us caught in the price range of F3 / Epic-S, but not quite at the epic-x / alexa level.

It all boils down to whether you are happy shooting with what you have and waiting for the carrot of the epic-s, that.. let's face it, may never come to light. I'm ok, for now, using the kit I have and renting... i'll wait and see what RED, Canon etc come up with until I need more.

If you have something to shoot though, I think the F3 is a great option and should hold it's price well enough.
 
I don't buy into "the carrot" marketing. I make decisions based upon what my needs and client wishes are TODAY and TOMORROW. (not next Neveruary). I see all of these cameras having a life-cycle of about 1 year and usable for 2 years.. After that, it's a boat-anchor. If I'm looking to "invest", I'll put the $'s into glass and put the best camera I can afford AND is available on the back of it. ;-)
 
starcentral said:
Geez guys, I dunno. I was set on dropping $17k (with taxes) for the F3 (non SLOG for now) and some basic accessories but with the EPIC-'S' (S35 scarlet rebranded whatever its called) coming out after all Epic-X stages are shipped (?maybe this year?) it could mean for "around" the same price I'm shooting 4k instead of 2k with all the same benefits and features of raw shooting.

The full Epic-X is around $28k (once it is available to non-stage peoples), the non-high-frame-rate version of it with HDRx (scarlet rebranded) is rummoured to be around the price of the F3 w. SLOG, $17k without taxes (back to the number stockfuel had guessed in another thread).

Surely whether or not you need 4k it does not make sense to drop the same or nearly same cash on a plain old F3.
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Its all speculation at this point. Jannard's 'road map' post didn't list the Epic-S at all, and when asked about it he wouldn't confirm they were going ahead with it. Instead he said 'the camera you want' will be coming out later. Whether that's a 3k S35 Scarlet for $17k or whatever price is as nebulous as the wind. Is 3k, which with a debayer is really 2.2k resolution (which everyone will render as 2048 wide) worth it to you over high end 1920 wide that you can get now. There are too many unknowns to even consider it unless you really don't need a new camera.
 
Well I think I'm starting to have the same revelation Sergio was having, for $28k (running total now for fully equipped F3 with SLOG and way to record it) you can easily get a Red One MX package. As for life-cycle, RED One started shipping in 2007 so that is a pretty long life cycle considering the camera is still practically the same. (difference only being the MX sensor which is standard now).

As more people start getting their Epic-X there will definitely be a surge of Red One Executed 's for sale. I've personally been offered a decent RED one package for $15k. It shoots RAW within the footprint of the camera, no Gemini, no extra Anton battery for the Gemini, etc.. etc.. and I get 4k even if I don't want it.

Later, once RED delivers an Epic-S in Neverurary I can still be shooting in the meantime and sell the Executed Red One when the time comes.

Guys, don't get me wrong, I really didn't want to cross over to the dark side - but money is money.
 
Lots of deals on executed RED ONE's? Here in Toronto?

Kegan

EDIT: Sorry for the thread de-rail. You can answer through PM if you'd like starscentral (of course you're under no obligation to respond at all ha)
 
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Not a lot of deals in Toronto specifically but when you consider the market on a global scale there are over 3000 Red One's out there. Some of them in use day in and day out, others sitting on a shelf as spares, and some with people who've decided for whatever reason not to keep it anymore.

I really need some convincing now to move forward with an F3. :( The Sony should have at the very least allowed 422 to the sxs pro cards and saved 444 for those productions or specific scenes that really called for it. I had really been convinced on the F3, even ordered my MTF adapter already.. but now I just don't know.
 
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