F3: F3 or Blackmagic

J

jax_rox

Well-known member
I have a single day shoot coming up without a huge budget. The client (and I) want really nice images - if we had the budget for Alexa (which I'm more used to shooting) we'd go with that.

As it is I'm trying to decide between the BMCC or a Sony F3. I personally really dislike the BMCC - I hate the touchscreen, the sensor size is not great, and makes it difficult to find cinema lenses for it, unless you're happy to forego wider focal lengths. The ergonomics and size are not great. The image is decent - not quite the mini Alexa that many say, but it's pretty good. I don't really care too much for raw for the sake of raw - I tend to prefer the image out of an Alexa shooting ProRes 4444 HD to a RED shooting 5k raw, for many situations.

I have no experience with the F3, but with S-log 10-bit 4:4:4, I've heard good things, and the small amount of footage I've seen looks great.
Realistically, the sensor size and ability to use decent lenses with focal lengths I'm used to is a major plus.

But, the most important thing is the image out of it. So what do you think of Sony S-log via an external recorder vs Blackmagic Cinema (2.5k) in raw.

Also anything someone used to shooting Alexa and RED should know about shooting F3? And does anyone in Melbourne still rent F3s?
 
I haven't used the F3 but I own a BMCC. Terrible ergonomics but an amazing image. Truly 13 stops of DR in raw. If you're going to be doing handheld work I wouldn't use the BMCC though...
 
F3 will get you very near 13 stops of DR. If you go F3, which I highly recommend, make sure you expose a middle gray card(18%) at 38 IRE. Clients will tremor looking at the "underexposed" flat image but this is where you really need to be to protect highlights and retain maximum data in the skin tone range. It will look perfect after being de-logged in post.

If the F3 you rent doesnt have the paid s-log upgrade you wont be able to do RGB 444 out and you'll have to do 10 bit 422 to your recorder. I'd suggest using the "A" sdi out as it's always a clean signal with no chance of inadvertently recording overlays.

If you have the paid s-log RGB version and go 444 out you'll only be able to pick from the pre-set white balances. If you use the free s-log you can do a custom white balance off of a gray card.
 
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Go for the F3, but make sure you shoot slog 444, either uncompressed 10bit RGB or as Prores444 to an external recorder like the Gemini444 or Pix240i.

I own an F3L and just finished a project with it. The camera will give you 13.5 stops in slog, which few cameras out there can match, unless you are ready to spend serious money. Low light capability is also excellent, as is the color science. As with all cameras make sure you use IR-ND filters. Overall my DoP was impressed by what the F3 was capable of delivering.

But to get the best out of the camera you need to properly 'de-log' the slog footage. This means applying the slog curve in inverse. If you don't do this you will get muddy files that are difficult to grade and do not deliver the full potential of the camera.

I found this video to be extremely useful:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBz1_H4abLI
 
Fotojorno said:
F3 will get you very near 13 stops of DR. If you go F3, which I highly recommend, make sure you expose a middle gray card(18%) at 38 IRE. Clients will tremor looking at the "underexposed" flat image but this is where you really need to be to protect highlights and retain maximum data in the skin tone range. It will look perfect after being de-logged in post.

If the F3 you rent doesnt have the paid s-log upgrade you wont be able to do RGB 444 out and you'll have to do 10 bit 422 to your recorder. I'd suggest using the "A" sdi out as it's always a clean signal with no chance of inadvertently recording overlays.

If you have the paid s-log RGB version and go 444 out you'll only be able to pick from the pre-set white balances. If you use the free s-log you can do a custom white balance off of a gray card.
Click to expand...

Thanks for this. I believe it has the paid upgrade - we'll be recording to a PIX240. What sort of frame rates can I get out of that?

Is there no way to monitor the image in REC709 or will it simply look underexposed?
 
I own and shoot with both. Go the F3, hands down, it's got a little more DR (about half a stop) than the BMC, the image is more 'stable' due to a faster rolling shutter, and in SLOG the colours are nicer. My F3/CP.2 package is available for rent here in Melbourne, so if you'd like to come and compare the two shoot me a PM.

Cheers,

Mark
 
The BMCC is noisier. Smaller sensor. The F3 is very clean. No you do not need the paid upgrade. 444 is not necessary unless you are doing green screen. You have deep enough color for almost all other color correction with 422HQ. The difference between the two is pretty much not discernible to the naked eye.
The F3 does not have 13.5 stops. It has 13 in SLOG. The Alexa is at 13.5.
 
yoclay said:
The BMCC is noisier. Smaller sensor. The F3 is very clean. No you do not need the paid upgrade. 444 is not necessary unless you are doing green screen. You have deep enough color for almost all other color correction with 422HQ. The difference between the two is pretty much not discernible to the naked eye.
The F3 does not have 13.5 stops. It has 13 in SLOG. The Alexa is at 13.5.
Click to expand...


There is a very noticeable difference between 422hq and Prores444. Prores444 is noticeably sharper and offers better tonality. Both are inferior to uncompressed slog444, especially if you need to perform more than a basic DI.

My testing and the testing by Abelcine (see their video) show a little over 13 stops for the F3. Lets call it 13.5 for the sake of argument. The Alexa clocks in at 14 stops, with some people claiming 14.5, which I am doubtful of. Arri is a very conservative company and publishes a figure of 13.5 stops. Kind of like Kodak used to rate Tri-X at 200asa, when in fact it was closer to 400.
 
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