F3: F3 1080 60p and Odyssey

Hi Dennis. I suppose I get bored far too easily, when you shoot a project, you want the next to be different in some way visually. This is why I finally invested in S-log. I was then afraid of experimenting with S-log at 8 bit, until I saw Osslund's results, which I thought were superb. The thing is it makes the camera a new experience, which is a good thing. I just wish I had more time to test. With S-log and a 7Q, I doubt I would have to buy another camera for a while, or until I get bored.

I never felt the need for an external recorder with the internal codec, but I do need a decent monitor, and if the monitor can record uncompressed, that is a big bonus. Hard drives are the same price as SxS cards, so no quibbles with that either. The 7Q will end up being a very handy tool, besides I just know my next camera will be a FS700.

I've never really experimented with the cinegamas, I've always shot with Abelcine's AB range, as it gives you the most latitude to grade with, or so I've read. I don't get the time to play with cameras settings, so I rely on the good people who create these profiles. I do intend to test Abelcine's F3 Technicolor out on a project in the future.

I was highly amazed as S-log needs a considerable saturation boost when being graded, it feels like a digital negative, if that makes sense. I was really impressed, I avoided it for many reasons, all this talk of grain in the blacks. I avoided Pro-Res for the same reasons, people said that it added grain to your footage from the F3. Now I'm thinking, I doubt it does.

I will try her skin at 50-60%. When I expose for skin, am I still using the grey card, or her skin for the 50-60%? I wish the F3 had histograms built in, but this proves to me why I do need the 7Q. Thanks.
 
Nearly everyone has a point in their life where they just have to work with what they have, whether that's a Canon 7D or 1/3" CCD video camera. Towards the end of owning my F3 I started shooting slog in 8-bit for fun and experimentation on projects. I didn't want to get into external recorders nor could I really afford it, and I wasn't entirely convinced that I needed 10-bit anyway.

Highly technical people "on the internet" would have you convinced that slog can not be shot in 8-bit because there are not enough data levels to be distributed across the entire tonal range needed in post to de-slog the image. But in fact could the opposite be true? The idea behind slog is to provide a MORE even distribution of data levels across the entire tonal range and additionally allocate more or less data to specific parts of the range.

Regarding your exposure and skin question the best thing to do is setup a quick test scene and try different things and figure out what you like best. Never trust what you read on the internet. :)

P.S. the F3 has something better than a histogram built in - it has a spot meter which will read out the IRE % values on your camera. You can place the center box marker over a grey card, white card, or even skin and see what actual levels you have. Damn heck wish the F55 had this.
 
I shoot for fun really, more like an expensive hobby. But it keeps me happy. I understand about the external recorders, they are a pain, but I do need a good monitor, to make my filming less hassle for focus etc, but the Sony LCD screen does work well. I see some of the images of camera rigs on here and I'm horrified. An EVF, a monitor, external batteries, cables everywhere, I couldn't work with a camera like that. Your F55 avoids all this.

Perhaps I should read less and test more, but I do find these forums and other sites highly valuable. I will test the skin exposure out, perhaps tomorrow night after work. I can't comment on S-log at 10 bit compared to 8, but it will be interesting to see the difference when I do get an external 10 bit recorder. Your comment sounds right though. I wonder if S-log 2 works well in AVCHD on the FS700?

I do use the IRE meter, I would just like histograms too, now I know how to read them, haha. I'm still a little concerned about over exposing whites in S-log. I'm sure you F55 will get an IRE meter in the future, it is a fantastic feature. I don't know how I would expose for S-log without it, what method do you use on the F55 if it doesn't have a meter? I wonder if the FS700 has an IRE meter now it comes with S-log 2?
 
I miss the convenience of the small flip out LCD on the F3, I have to admit.

Up until recently the F55 did not have any exposure tools built in except zebras. Recently however they added a mini waveform monitor without any markings, histogram and vector scope but no spot meter just yet.

What I've been doing though is the same as I did on the F3, I rate the camera speed myself with grey card, waveform monitor and light meter and that way can shape my lighting levels, etc.. with just a trusty old light meter I know is calibrated to my camera. Of course you have to factor in the reflectance of what you're actually lighting but its not hard.
 
The 7Q is now my next buy.

Just set your zebras to 104 and you can protect blowing out in slog. It may not be ideal white for all shots, but I have found them to work just like when shooting normally.
 
starcentral said:
What I've been doing though is the same as I did on the F3, I rate the camera speed myself with grey card, waveform monitor and light meter and that way can shape my lighting levels, etc.. with just a trusty old light meter I know is calibrated to my camera. Of course you have to factor in the reflectance of what you're actually lighting but its not hard.
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Not good at all, I hope you get the spot meter soon, what a pain that would be, it's bad enough with having to deal with actors, props, lights, etc, without that hassle. It does prove that you know your stuff. At least your still getting updates, I'm still waiting for v1.5 for the F3, haha. It won't happen now.

The F3 got a lot of stick for that LCD screen, as did the FS700, I'd rather have them than not.

Shoots56 said:
The 7Q is now my next buy.
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Me too.

Shoots56 said:
Just set your zebras to 104 and you can protect blowing out in slog. It may not be ideal white for all shots, but I have found them to work just like when shooting normally.
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Interesting, thanks I will do that.

I edit with Sony Vegas, I just realised that v12 has an option for S-log.

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/vegaspro/workflow

I'm going to test this out tonight. I was trying to avoid buying 12, but looks like I might have to now.
 
JackCarter said:
I edit with Sony Vegas, I just realised that v12 has an option for S-log.

http://www.sonycreativesoftware.com/vegaspro/workflow

I'm going to test this out tonight. I was trying to avoid buying 12, but looks like I might have to now.
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Well that was a massive waste of time! My own grading looked better, even worse, when rendered out, it looks nothing like it's supposed to! You can only render to one codec? Hopefully this will be worked on in v13.
 
OK, I'm a little confused about the Odyssey7 (not Q) specs and pricing for the recording options.

The CD website is clear as mud on this and the info seems outdated there.

What recording options are available now and what are they?
How much?
Do they also increment by datarate ala the Nanoflash?
When they talk about DNxHD, is that a recording option itself or is it selectable like xdcam was inside an MXF or MOV wrapper like the Nano?
The "popular" compressed codec to be released later...rhymes with....?

Hoping someone can shed a little light.
 
JCummings said:
OK, I'm a little confused about the Odyssey7 (not Q) specs and pricing for the recording options.

The CD website is clear as mud on this and the info seems outdated there.

What recording options are available now and what are they?
How much?
Do they also increment by datarate ala the Nanoflash?
When they talk about DNxHD, is that a recording option itself or is it selectable like xdcam was inside an MXF or MOV wrapper like the Nano?
The "popular" compressed codec to be released later...rhymes with....?

Hoping someone can shed a little light.
Click to expand...

Yeah, what he said. But for the 7Q

I'm so stuck on camera choices, it's driving me nuts. I'm between an Epic and an F5. But for both of them, I would get a 7Q. Mostly because I want to still be able to appeal to people that want compressed footage straight off the bat.

For the F5 I'd get the R5 for 16bit raw, 7Q for 4k compressed (and as the main monitor) and internal for HD compressed. Question is, does anyone know what that compressed options are available? ProRes 4k? Also, wouldn't that make the F5 on par with the F55 besides the global shutter (and I understand that's a biggie).

For the Epic, I'd use it as the main monitor so in addition to the raw option, you can offer compressed HD/4k. As often I think that people are put off by using Red's on shoots as they've become renowned for the long workflows. Which personally I do not understand. I'm just finishing up a project with a 10TB mixture of Cineflex, Epic and various Canon DSLR's and the Red stuff is super smooth to handle and I'm on an iMac.

Does anyone see a flaw in my plan? Will there be issues using the 7Q with these cameras?
 
Doesn't the 7Q record compressed 4k? Or is it that the F5 doesn't output 4k other than to the FS700?

Kinda assumed it would the same as the FS700
 
There is no 4k out on the F5, unlike the FS700 which can output 12-bit 4k RAW over SDI.

Double check with Dan or Mitch from CD.
 
JCummings said:
OK, I'm a little confused about the Odyssey7 (not Q) specs and pricing for the recording options.

The CD website is clear as mud on this and the info seems outdated there.

What recording options are available now and what are they?
How much?
Do they also increment by datarate ala the Nanoflash?
When they talk about DNxHD, is that a recording option itself or is it selectable like xdcam was inside an MXF or MOV wrapper like the Nano?
The "popular" compressed codec to be released later...rhymes with....?

Hoping someone can shed a little light.
Click to expand...
Sorry, there is a comparison page on our website which is out of date and needs some serious attention.

Let me clarify:

- The Odyssey7 will record in various datarate flavors of DNxHD and the other "popular compressed codec" whose name we can finally share in a few weeks after certification.
- Our plan is for each of these two codecs to offer a 444 RGB, a 422 High Quality, and a 422 Proxy level of recording.
- I believe DNxHD will be offered in MOV format.
- All of these recording options will be included in the base price of the Odyssey7, $1295. Any options not completed will be added via free firmware update.
- There will be no paid upgrade options for the Odyssey7. The Odyssey7 cannot be turned into an Odyssey7Q.

Hope this helps.
 
Both the EPIC and the F5 offer 4K proprietary recording options from the manufacturer, but only 1080p outputs otherwise. There is no outside access to the 4K data off the camera. The F55 does offer 4K video out over 4x SDI connection. The Odyssey7Q will soon be able to record that in a compressed 4K codec.
 
This may be a little off topic, but can you explain what the Odyssey would be recording from an Epic? I guess its more of a red specific question. I dont understand what the Epic is technically outputting. Is it just a LUT'ed 1080p 420 feed? I ask because I have had to use an Epic for shoots that it wasn't made for and with the 7Q I could, in theory, hand off ready to edit HD files and then put the 7Q back on my F3 for my usual filming gigs.
 
Shoots56 said:
This may be a little off topic, but can you explain what the Odyssey would be recording from an Epic? I guess its more of a red specific question. I dont understand what the Epic is technically outputting. Is it just a LUT'ed 1080p 420 feed? I ask because I have had to use an Epic for shoots that it wasn't made for and with the 7Q I could, in theory, hand off ready to edit HD files and then put the 7Q back on my F3 for my usual filming gigs.
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Actually a LUT'ted 1080p 4:2:2 feed, but yes, you have the idea. This can be recorded as your finished output for editing or as proxy files for a quick edit. We are working on the various naming, timecode and trigger particulars to make interaction with the EPIC as smooth as possible.
 
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