F3: F3 1080 60p and Odyssey

S

sobcitystar

New member
Hello
I'm a F3 (with SLOG-Update) User and I want to use the Slowmotion Option in 60p from my Dual-Link.
Does anyone know what Odyssey I need for recording 10bit 422 in 1080/60p?
Odyssey7 or Odyssey7q with F3 Recording Option?
I don't want to shoot in RGB444, I just want the slowmotion Option in 1080 and 10bit 422.
The Odyssey7 has two SDI in and can record in compressed 10bit 1080/60p. Will be the Odyssey7 enough with one SSD?

Thank You
Greets Jochen
 
There is more to consider when picking the Q or just the 7. After much research and talking to those who know, the Q is the one to buy. The 7 isn't getting updates and can't do 4K later on. I was told it can't do dual link either. The Q can also handle multi cam shoots which do happen for everyone at one time or another. How cool would it be not to have to bother with other recorders and have everyone plug into one unit? You can also use the Q on an F55 to get 4K Prores and if you rent an Alexa, you could use the Q on that as well! The updates later on could be anything. If you have a 7, you are left out.

I heard the Q will be able to support anamorphic as well.
 
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Thanks for your answers.
I know the specs and the comparison about 7 and 7Q, but no one can give me a confirmation about recording 1080/60p with Odyssey7 and the Sony F3 with Dual-Link.
I don't need 4k and multi cam. I just want to "pimp" :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG) the lovely image from my F3 with a little bit slowmotion. 720 in 150% isn't good in 2014.
If the 7 can't do dual link, then 1080/60p doesn't work, because it comes just from dual-link on the F3. Why does the Odyssey7 have two SDI (A+B) In?
The question 7 or 7Q is a lot of money for me. Is the F3 RGB444 an extra cost option on the 7Q?
Here is it an extra cost option.
http://www.convergent-design.com/Products/Odyssey7.aspx#7-vs-7Q-Comparison-24
and here not.
http://www.convergent-design.com/Products/Odyssey7Q.aspx#Options-51

Thanks!
 
Hi sobcitystar, I read it can do dual link but Mitch Gross on these forums is the official guy to ask and have it confirmed.
 
This is via a DP friend of mine, who got this from Dan at CD:

The Odyssey7 will have two HD-SDI 3G input ports, so we can handle Dual link, and it has two HD-SDI 3G output ports.


Thus, the Odyssey7 will support 1080p59.94 or 1080p60, 4:2:2, to a popular compressed codec.

The Odyssey7Q adds full uncompressed support, and RGB 4:4:4 using another version of the popular compressed codec.
 
Beat me to it.

Post #6 is correct. The odyssey7 will do it if you are fine with compressed recording. This recording is vastly less compressed than what the camera does internally, and of course can handle the full 60fps.

But please consider your future work. With this function, you have reached the outer envelope of what the Odyssey7 can do. To go any further will require the Odyssey7Q. That means for your next camera, or for bringing in another camera or two for your next shoot. If the Odyssey7 is truly all you will need for the foreseeable future then by all means I don't want to push you. But if there is any chance you may have further needs in the next year or two I highly suggest you look into the options available on the 7Q.
 
Can you say anything about how anamorphic will be supported? Could I use 1.5 Iscoramas on the F3 and desqueeze?
 
Anamorphic will be supported on the 7Q. Not sure if we have the logic gate space on the 7. We were originally only going to do 1.3x and 2x but I submitted your earlier request for either 1.5x or variable (which actually might be the easiest way to implement it). The team is still busy working on the infamous "popular compressed codec" implementation so I don't have any more update.
 
There is no 4k possible with the F5, since the body alone on the F5 does not output 4k.

The F55 can output 4k via SDI ports, so an option will exist for the F55 but not the F5 I'm afraid.
 
sobcitystar said:
Is the F3 RGB444 an extra cost option on the 7Q?
Click to expand...

I'd like to know this too? Very confusing. Is the F3 444 uncompressed a free option with the 7Q? If not the Hyperdeck shuttle may be a better option.


starcentral said:
There is no 4k possible with the F5, since the body alone on the F5 does not output 4k.
Click to expand...

Looks like the FS700 is the better deal then, according to Alister Chapman, there is barley any difference at 4K from the FS700 and F5/55. Too bad about no RAW 4k from the 7Q.

http://www.xdcam-user.com/2013/06/stunning-fs700-raw-performance-really-impressive/
 
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Thanks for pointing out the issue on our website. Over the summer we changed how we were bundling feature sets for the different options. I'll have that corrected.

444 RGB up to 60p from the F3 is no extra cost on the Odyssey7Q.

There will soon be a way for the Odyssey7Q to record 4K video (as opposed to a RAW signal). When that is available, we will enable recording of this signal AT NO ADDITIONAL CHARGE. There are a few ways this can be delivered, and is somewhat camera-specific. At least until who-knows-what cameras are unveiled at NAB or later. But as of right now we will be able to accept 4K video over 4x SDI streams (F55) or 2x 3G-SDI streams (Phantom Flex4K).

To sum up, we will record everything the F3 can spit out at no additional charge. We will (eventually) record 4K video from the F55 at no additional charge.

Hope that clarifies things.
 
Thank you very much Mitch, looks like the Odyssey 7Q is the way forward. A great monitor, uncompressed recording for s-log from the F3, affordable recording options for the FS700, and a path for the F55 or whatever comes out in the future. This is number one on my list of items to buy in 2014.

Do you think it is possible to implement XDCAM 422 recording in the future? Or is this reserved for the Nanoflash only?
 
Mitch - will the 7Q record uncompressed from the F3 when in 60p mode as well? ie. are there any frame rate limits to specific codecs or recording modes? **EDIT Sorry found the answer in your previous post. That is great news!


Jack - uncompressed as I'm sure you know produces quite massive files. I think targeting 10-bit 422 in a decent codec should bring you lots of flexibility in post - whether that's grading or even for keying.
 
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Dennis I was reading one of your posts regarding S-log and your views about there being no difference between the internal codec and Pro-Res, but with uncompressed you said that that the footage was even cleaner. I would use uncompressed for my shorts that I make only. I shoot so little footage for my shorts that the file sizes would not matter. To be honest I'm very happy with the internal codec from the F3, XDCAM EX. I have had no issues apart from aliasing in S-log, but I figured out this was due to the lights I was using, camera set at 3600k, lights I found out were 5500k, so I set the camera to 5600k, and no aliasing. I have had no issues with noise either in the blacks or shadows with the 8 bit internal codec. Perhaps this is because I light? Dennis do you still shoot with the F3? Or is it just the F55 now?

Grading is another story with S-log, I don't understand these LUT's you all talk about, I just grade the footage as to how I want it to look, had no real issues apart from skin tones can be quite difficult to play with. I find the S-log footage very pleasing, and if uncompressed will make it look even better, then I don't mind the big file sizes. Still finding my way with S-log exposure, grey at 38% works for me, but I'm shooting some close-ups this weekend so I might try expose for skin this time. Would you recommend skin to be at 40% for a Caucasian female with a very pale complexion?
 
JackCarter said:
Thank you very much Mitch, looks like the Odyssey 7Q is the way forward. A great monitor, uncompressed recording for s-log from the F3, affordable recording options for the FS700, and a path for the F55 or whatever comes out in the future. This is number one on my list of items to buy in 2014.

Do you think it is possible to implement XDCAM 422 recording in the future? Or is this reserved for the Nanoflash only?
Click to expand...

Never say never, but that's an 8-bit codec.
 
Hi Jack, I do believe that if things are shot well you can achieve a lot with the 8-bit internal codec on the F3 using the cinegammas, and yes even do some grading and it will hold up fine for most things. Remember manufactures and retailers will push numbers to push sales but reality is 8-bit video has been around for well over a decade and if you watch even one of many thousands of videos shot on a DSLR or other cameras which use an 8-bit codec there is a ton of pretty stuff out there and it's hard to say that 8-bit is drastically inferior.

"More" is always "better" but not always necessary.


As for my comparison of internal XDCAM vs external ProRes, underneath the hood surely ProRes offers more bit-depth and less compression than XDCAM but my reference was looking at the images without any grading on a high quality monitor and zoomed in 200% and more to pixel peep. I saw around the same levels of noise in the shadows which as I mentioned in that post seemed to become minimized when shooting uncompressed. But again, you had to really be zoomed in over 200% to see the "benefit".


Yes I moved to the F55 in March but still shoot with the F3 on occasion for certain projects where its the producers equipment they want me to use. I'm a huge fan of cinegamma 1 for high contrast scenes and cinegamma 3 for dark, or low key type of lighting.


Regarding grading, exposure, LUT's, it has definitely been a huge focus of these forums since around 2010 when slog became available on the F3 and no doubt there are many of us including myself who are trying to find the best way to work with when we are doing the grading ourselves. I'm going to be testing some newer workflows with slog/slog2 and will be sure to report my findings here.

The 38% rule with slog doesn't mean that's where you should expose skin. It just means that in reference to a signal that goes from black to white the mid point when shot in slog actually swings down to 38%. In photography where you place your skin tone is usually in reference to middle grey, since later after you film is exposed your reference of where you placed it will be maintained. So, if you want a punchy TV look your final skin tone might be around 60%-70% for caucasian skin, but for my taste that is way too bright for my liking so I might shoot light skin at around 50-60. Where you place it is really in reference to that middle grey point, and nothing really else.
 
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