GH4 Extreme noise even at ISO 200. Anyone else? (video inside)

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antonionhb

Active member
Got the GH4 awhile ago but really haven't used it often. I am an experienced shooter. But I am super disappointed so far.

Last month, during a little 4th of July celebration, my neighbors asked me to grab the camera and shoot a little video for them. Honestly, I was embarrassed to show them.

The street lights were on, the sky was dark blue, it wasn't totally dark. I was shooting at 28mm 2.8, 60fps, shutter 120 1600 ISO and the image it produced was so awful, I couldn't even bring myself to show my neighbors. It would've looked better on my iPhone honestly.

My FS100 would have to go to ISO 20,000 to see noise like this. I am even getting noise as low as ISO 200.

Is something wrong with my sensor? I've read of one other instance similar. Do you think the camera is defective?

The only camera tests or "good" footage I ever see are shot in pure sunlight...these are not normal conditions for most.

https://vimeo.com/99964032
 
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I'm not an experienced shooter, but I think the noise is less at 4k. I could be wrong. But yeah, 1600 is pushing it, to me. I prefer 800 or less
 
Do you have the original 4K file available for download. That's trashed in some editing program to 37mbps and then completely destroyed by Vimeo.

I will say that the GH4 needs to be exposed to the right significantly when in really low light. If your histogram is a big ski jump on the left, you're toast.

I have shot some amazing images at ISO 2000 when there is enough light to expose to the right. CineV with all zeros and 16-235 luminance.

Up the ISO and get that exposure meter on the plus side will do way way way better than lower iso with the exposure meter down a stop or three. Just my $0.02 on how to get this cam to work in well in low light.

Cheers,
Pete

PS: don't be afraid to lower the shutter speed to 360 degrees for slower moving scenes. I regularly shoot at 1/30th sec in 30p 4k mode when I absolutely have to. I'd much rather have some more motion blur than under exposed dancing bears from noise.
 
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Your problem in that clip was mostly underexposure. F2.8 is not fast enough aperture for those lighting conditions, shutter speed of 1/120 rather than 1/60 (or 1/50 if PAL) added to the underexposure problem by a full stop. I would have used a 20mm or 25mm prime at f1.7 (f1.4 with my Pan/Leica 25mm), possibly even shutter at 1/30, and I would have positioned the action where the illumination from street lights could be seen on faces.

I haven't had a chance to use my GH4 in low light but with my GH3's I've shot in parking lots at ISO 3200 and 6400, I'd see some noise in the 6400 footage in underexposed areas but even at that ISO if you get enough exposure in darker areas it's not bad.

Supposedly low light performance on the GH4 is about a stop less exposure than the same settings on the GH3. But I'll test that for myself before I try to do any low light work with the GH4

What I see in your clip is what I would expect with that degree of underexposure. Did you have CONSTANT PREVUE set to ON so you could "see" what your exposure was going to be like (works only in manual modes)?
 
Wrong lens for the job, if you want to shoot low light comfortably get a speedbooster and some f1.8 or faster lenses. If you want to stick the m43 lenses then like others have said go faster with your lens, shouldn't this be a given for an experienced shooter like yourself?

Also I understand you were at a high shutter speed of 120 as you shot in 60fps but doubling of shutter speed based on frame rate is not a hard and fast rule. You can get away with a slower shutter speed for more light at the cost of some very minor extra motion blur and I'd take that almost imperceptible extra motion blur over an underexposed shot anyday.

If you were looking at the GH4 to be a low light monster you are sorely mistaken, I don't remember seeing any reviews from Dave Dugdale or Phillip Bloom mentioning this camera does well in low light.
 
themac said:
Wrong lens for the job, if you want to shoot low light comfortably get a speedbooster and some f1.8 or faster lenses. If you want to stick the m43 lenses then like others have said go faster with your lens, shouldn't this be a given for an experienced shooter like yourself?

Also I understand you were at a high shutter speed of 120 as you shot in 60fps but doubling of shutter speed based on frame rate is not a hard and fast rule. You can get away with a slower shutter speed for more light at the cost of some very minor extra motion blur and I'd take that almost imperceptible extra motion blur over an underexposed shot anyday.

If you were looking at the GH4 to be a low light monster you are sorely mistaken, I don't remember seeing any reviews from Dave Dugdale or Phillip Bloom mentioning this camera does well in low light.
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I've seen loads of low light footage and lots of mention that it does well in low light.

I own the GH2; when shooting below 120 shutter on the GH2 at 60fps, the playback was jittery.

I've shot many low(er) light situations with FS100, RED One MX, etc with much better results. I know what you're thinking; this camera is $1700. Right. Got it. BUT, if I am getting noise even at ISO 200; isn't this a major concern? I go to ISO 6400 for weddings often with a 16mm 2.8 pancake on the FS100...I can go to 3200 with the 5DII or 5DIII with a fine-grain noise pattern...I've noticed the one on the GH4 is blocky. Looks like an 8-bit Nintendo game.

Again, is this specific camera defective?
 
Well that was the GH2 try it on the GH4 there's really no reason for it to be jittery in fact movement should be more fluid (to the point of extra motion blur). Did you crank the master pedestal level and mess with the shadow/highlights? What picture profile and what settings? There's no way anyone on here can truly tell if it's defective, get it checked out.
 
I shot some green screen projects for broadcast at ISO800. Compositor was not happy, he said footage was tough to get a good key. For the future, I am bringing more lights and a faster lens. Green screen at ISO 200 with a fast lens and correct exposure will key better. I shouldn't have gone ISO800 but subjects were wearing black and my LED panels were maxed out and as close to subjects as possible.
 
puredrifting said:
I shot some green screen projects for broadcast at ISO800. Compositor was not happy, he said footage was tough to get a good key. For the future, I am bringing more lights and a faster lens. Green screen at ISO 200 with a fast lens and correct exposure will key better. I shouldn't have gone ISO800 but subjects were wearing black and my LED panels were maxed out and as close to subjects as possible.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-bUUNL6Zhvg
 
puredrifting said:
Thanks for this link themac, very interesting test. This shows me that with proper lighting, green screen can be pretty good with the GH4. Just think ISO200 all of the way.
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ironic that you posted this link, one of the first comments is that he is getting noise at ISO 200.

[h=3]rictolo[/h]2 days ago




I have so noisy footage even at 200 iso so that I can't use it for green screen. The artefacts compression make it impossible to have a clean result. Some people talk about bad sensor series. Do you heard about it. What are your spec ? I've made a lot of test with different parameters and whatever I do, it's ugly , noisy even at 200 iso. Impossible to get the same clean result has shown. Any idea ?




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Video Alchemy
1 day ago




+rictolo I'm assuming your talking about the GH4. Noise is normally an indication of not enough light, what is your aperture setting and shutter speed ?, do you have the same problem outside in good daylight, if so then it might be a sensor problem. When I'm using the green screen I'm using a 12-35 Lumix lens and have it set at f2.8 with ISO 200 and 1/200 speed to reduce motion blur and there is very little artifacting in 4K UHD. I have 4 x 5ft tubes lighting just the green screen from about 8ft away plus the subject lights. I use the natural setting with a bit extra noise reduction but not enough to make it soft.Have you upgraded the firmware to the latest version as well.


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rictolo
1 day ago




+Video Alchemy Thank you for your answer. I have made several test with the same lens, good light, latest firmware. The only clean outpout is using an atomos ninja but only 1080p and 23,96 fps and no pal version. I was interested by the 4k capability to reframe the shot later. I'll try to make test with an other gh4 from an other resseller to really see if my gh4 is faulty.









 
basically; the GH4 falls apart in the shadows. It's the kryptonite of the GH4 if you will.

i've put mine on eBay because adorama isn't going to take it back and i'm not going to wait for panasonic to examine it. i've watched loads of video now and i've seen it present in all of them.

GH4 is a major disappointment in terms of shadow noise. Yes, that's enough for me to get rid of it. I have neat video; I'm not going to increase my render time by applying it to virtually every frame and risk it softening my image.

I'll stick with the FS100.
 
Sigh.
All I can say is that any expectation for the GH4 to perform like an FS100 in terms of low light is unrealistic. What kills me is that I made my living using cameras with an effective ISO of 200 to 320 for over a decade. The best Beta SP broadcast cameras were very light hungry. Calling a camera that can shoot clean looking 1600 ISO in 4k a disappointment just doesn't compute for me. Obviously, your experience with it has been different. And your needs and shooting style are different than mine, probably. From the Gh1 to the GH4, the usable ISO has gone from 400 to 1600, and perhaps even 3200 with a little Neat Video.
Documentary filmmakers would have killed to have that performance out of any camera just 5 years ago. Not to mention one that costs $1700. What the heck do you want? :smile:

P.S. I think your problems with the GH4 were because of Andrew Reid's recommended settings. Another week with the camera and you would've set it up to your liking.
 
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You can get clean video even at ISO3200 when using CinelikeV!
According to Adam Wilt this profile has a maximum dynamic range of 11 stops. The sensor at 1600< has a dynamic range of 10 stops. So when using CinelikeD (rated 13+ stops) at these high ISO noise will be amplified and the codec beginns to struggle...

Just use CinelikeD until ISO400 or even ISO800 (contrast 0 or -1, sharpness/nr/saturation -5) and at ISO1600< Cinelike V (contrast/sharpness/nr/saturation -5) and of course no Highlight/shadow "enhancements" and iDynamic/iResolution crap.
Master pedestal +15
0-255

Nice skintones and low FINE noise using these settings!
 
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antonionhb said:
Got the GH4 awhile ago but really haven't used it often. I am an experienced shooter. But I am super disappointed so far.
Click to expand...

The only issue here is you've severely underexposed the footage. Obviously the GH4 is not a low light camera like the FS100 but the problems with your example is due to user error.

Be good form for you to admit it.
 
To all the people who are seeing really noisy shadows: are you turning NR down to -5? Boosting the blacks with the curve or using cineD? I've been testing the camera he last few days and I haven't seen any ill effects to NR being left on and the combination of cineD and boosting shadows seems a bit too aggressive if noise is a concern.
 
Fahnon said:
To all the people who are seeing really noisy shadows: are you turning NR down to -5? Boosting the blacks with the curve or using cineD? I've been testing the camera he last few days and I haven't seen any ill effects to NR being left on and the combination of cineD and boosting shadows seems a bit too aggressive if noise is a concern.
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I agree. NR at 0 doesn't seem to reduce resolution significantly and yet helps noise in the shadows at higher ISOs. Leaving the Shadows/Highlights alone is critical to keeping noise down. Same goes for iDynamic...leave it off!

Setting Sharpness to settings higher than -5 (especially to 0 or higher) will dramatically increase the appearance of noise because it gives every little dot of noise electronic edge enhancement.
 
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