External Recorder testing

Shooter

Shooter

Veteran
FWIW.

I am currently testing and researching external recorders for the AF102 (after recently purchasing a BM Hyperdeck Shuttle).

Probably a mistake buying the BM device (massive file sizes for no gain that I can see) so now looking onward to a more pragmatic solution without the storage issue .

Contenders:

Aja Ki pro Mini
Pix240 - from Sound devices
Atomos Samurai

Today I tested the Aja and the Pix 240.

The Pix 240 is an awesome device. I was so impressed with everything about it. Sound devices have really done a great job with how they have designed and developed this.

The AF102 is recognised in the set up and there was no problem getting TC and audio into the device from the SDI cable ( brilliant). No problem dual recording to AF102 (sd card) simultaneous to the SSD or CF card on the Pix 240 ( brilliant). So easy to set up.

Af100 triggers record start stop via SDI cable.

Menus are crisp, logical and accessing them - intuitive. Plenty of options cover every conceivable eventuality.
Connections and playbacks - everything you want or need in the field or in the suite.
Prores and DNxHD Codecs ( many flavours)
Far too many other advantages for me to rave about here.

This is a seriously good device to partner to the AF100. It absolutely blew me away. Hard to fault in any respect except...it comes at a high-ish price.

The Aja. Very cool and has many of the pros from above but to a lesser degree. Down side for me was ( Prores only and CF Cards Only). Did not get round to actually connecting it to the Af102 because the Pix 240 had "stolen my heart and mind" so convincingly.

Next
Sometime very soon I will be looking at the Atomos Samurai and comparing that to my benchmark Pix 240. It may be exactly what I need ..or not.
 
I'm trying to get a thread started in which someone will post external
recorder footage for play for others who are making decisions.

This will give at minimum a glimpse of what it's like to work which
such files and how it will help their workflow as well as how
much they can potentially withstand in grading.

If you would be kind enough to 'donate' some test footage/footage
you've shot already everyone in this thread (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?267104-Atomos-Ninja-Footage)
would be most grateful.

I would be willing to put this content up for direct download
on my companies website. Get in contact with me via PM
if you would be willing to do so.

Thanks for the information provided already as well!
 
Putting up footage (that is all kind of massive in file size) from external record devices is a major upload exercise and not the entiire point.

The Codecs are a known "quantity" as is the color space (4:2:0, 4:2:2, 4:4:4) and data rates (bit rates) etc. (ie. People can be safely assured they work as per spec and look as per expectation of an HQ image capture - and they do this with out doubt).

In my opinion...people need to evaluate these devices at a practical and pragmatic level for their own requirement. (cost being one of them maybe). They are all different.

For me:
I want a device that will trigger from the AF102 and will record simultanously to camera and offboard recorder with identical timecode . I want audio and TC and on/off triggering via HD-SDI.

I want an un obtrusive camera mountable form factor ( ie mounting points).
I want multiple record codecs (ie Prores and DXnHD) with reasonable file storage figuring as a factor.
I want ease of use and set up (simplicity).
I want an efficient workflow from shoot thru' to edit suite ( including cross facility and cross platform).
Power supply is a consideration worthy of research.
A monitor on the external recorder is not a pre-requisite but nice anyways.

The Pix 240 exceeds my requirement and I suspect the Atomos Samurai wil meet it.
The Aja doesnt not and the BM Hyperdeck falls short by a distance.
 
I understand what you are trying to convey however for a lot
of folks they would like to see how it withstands to major color
correction or keying. If you change your mind let me know.
I believe 5-10 second clips would suffice in different levels of exposure.
However anything at this point for some would be highly beneficial.

This would not require much data transfer on your end and also
like I mentioned it would be to my FTP server so unless your ISP restricts
your data it should be just your time if you'd be so kind.

Again a good portion of the people out there are trying to decide based
on this criteria and these examples will help as they could forgo
possibly spending thousands on a solution that didn't work out
properly.
 
Not worried about my time at all.

Its the 400 GB + (15 sec) files that need to be uploaded from New Zealand (where we do not have the greatest upload speeds on the planet.)

I even have files from the Hyperdeck that are over 1GB for 17 secs ( uncompressed .mov). Same file (same shot) is 98MB on the AF102 CODEC

BTW: Its a well established fact ( a given) that 4:2:2 files are far superior in post than 4:2:0. That, I and others can assure anyone based on professional experience.
 
Quite a bit larger than expected. Originally (still actually) looking
for Ninja/Samurai footage since it's compressed a bit. Quite a bit
more manageable in size terms and not really any degradation
of quality due to compression (not enough for most out there
in the category I'm in).

I'm aware it's a proven fact that the 4:2:2 files will be far superior
I think a couple people (obviously myself as well) fall into the section
I'm currently at and would like to see if their is a production benefit
aside from two sources of video for potential issues.
 
Here is how I look at it.

If you need 4:2:2..you really need it... so you simply bite the bullet. ( for not a very large investment in fact compared to a higher end camera)

If you need to prove it...you dont need it or have a use for it.

4:2:2 ( and high bitrates) will not display or perform much differently in most (average) NLE set ups.

It does shine in a high end facilty such as Resolve, Flame etc... and to a lesser extent in lesser facilties.

Anyone getting sample footage would need to have access a igh end facilty such as these to see any benefit.
 
Have to agree with everything you've mentioned shooter, which is why my bm sits unused while I wait for my pix40 to come in.
 
I agree to an extent however I will not press the issue. Most
if not all people using Mac's will have access to Resolve(Lite). Not
an unlimited node version but some higher end colorist software obviously.

Look forward to your thoughts on the Ninja thanks
again so far for the information.
 
mcgeedigital said:
Have to agree with everything you've mentioned shooter, which is why my bm sits unused while I wait for my pix40 to come in.
Click to expand...

Hey Matt.

You are really going to dig the Pix240. Never seen an out of the box device that works as well as this does... plus its superb flexibility and functionality.

I am envious so let us know if you love it as much as I do.

I will hire one as/if required but have just pushed the button on a Samurai purchase meantime. ( Budget consideration - been on a spending binge for this d*mned AF102 - its paying off big time luckily)
 
Will do sir. I will post some tests with pretty heavy grading to compare the native codec to the bm and sd240 once it comes in.

Best,
 
FWIW:

You need to check if any external recording device you are considering, will record variable frame rates (if you need them).

(Obviously the SDI output from the AF100 bypasses the codec and processing stages and is almost direct from the sensor. Therefore the VFR is not sent out in the clip and the Recorder needs the ability to process VFR)

I can confirm that the Atomos Samurai does not support VFR yet.... but it is in the "works" and evidently Atomos and Panasonic are co-operating to bring this to the device in a firmware upgrade. (According to Atomos who I contacted in regard to this). I have asked if they can tell me what rates are planned.

VFR is essential to what I do so I will be eagerly waiting for this vital function.

(Birger, RED, Scarlett.....hmmmmmm...!)
 
You're not going to get VFR overcranking at 26fps+ (in PAL) or 31fps+ (in NTSC) on any external recorder. The HDMI and HD-SDI output ports don't output more than 25p (50Hz) or 30p (60Hz). If you set the frame rate faster than those maximums, what you'll get on the output ports is a 50i or 60i signal with pulldown.

Any overcranking faster than 25p or 30p is only possible to the internal SDHC/SDXC memory cards, not to an external recorder.
 
Interesting Barry.

I have now had two communications with Atomos representatives regarding VFR. They even asked what frame rates I would like to see in the device.

I will report back..what they report.
 
Shooter said:
Interesting Barry.

I have now had two communications with Atomos representatives regarding VFR. They even asked what frame rates I would like to see in the device.

I will report back..what they report.
Click to expand...
VFR from 1 to 30, no problem. But above 30, it has no choice but to go to fields. That's just the way the outputs work.
 
interesting report about the pix 240. I poked around with one for a few minutes at Abel a while back and it really does seem to be the pick of the litter among the small file based recorders. The 240 has been on my watch list for some time and would love to hear more about what people think about them after they use them for a while. I almost bought a ki pro mini but held off once i figured out the power consumption of the mini was higher than i would like.
 
Oh yeah _AND I am curious especially about green screen compositing in native codec vs pro res recorded to a 240.... in case any one wants to try that out.
 
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