Really? How much was it to do all that?
Expanded Focus Assist via Firmware Update?
- Thread starter Cinesota
- Start date
Really? How much was it to do all that?
KyleProhaska
Veteran
Because it requires edges with contrast of some kind in order to work. I may be wrong there, but that's how I see it reading the image in order to display the assist. I've shot things that are flatter with my AF100 and focus assist doesn't help very much at all...get a hard light on someone or shoot something with hot highlights, and you'll see RED all over the place.
The focus assist seems to be looking where contrast is sharpest...at least that's what I see.
Cinesota
Active member
In my experience, Panasonic generally fixes known bugs but rarely adds features via firmware. They seem to be staying on script with the AF100. We will probably see expanded focus assist on the AF100B (or AF200 or whatever they decide to call it). The red peaking works okay for run n gun shooting and moving shots, but for locked down shots I prefer expanded focus assist. Why on Earth couldn't we have both? Seems like a glaring omission on Panasonic's part. I had it on my HMC150 and loved it. In fact, the AF100 needs it more than the HMC150. With the 150 I could just zoom in, get a quick focus, then pull out and re-frame. That was using the zoom lens on the HMC150 but on the AF100 if you are using a prime lens that's a no-go. As a previous poster mentioned, the red peaking doesn't work in all situations. It's not great for getting focus on faces.
I didn't mean to start this as a "Let's ***** about what's wrong with our cameras" thread. The AF100 is a fine camera. I bought it knowing full well it didn't have expanded focus assist. Thought I could live without it but now I'm finding I can't. With the upcoming features being added to the FS100 via firmware, it's got me re-thinking that camera.
I cut my teeth on film. I know full well the things we had to do when shooting it, but we also had the benefit of an optical viewfinder, proper cinema lenses, and occasionally a good AC to make it all work. These days my budgets rarely allow for an AC, so I rely on tools like expanded focus assist and I sorely miss it.
I didn't mean to start this as a "Let's ***** about what's wrong with our cameras" thread. The AF100 is a fine camera. I bought it knowing full well it didn't have expanded focus assist. Thought I could live without it but now I'm finding I can't. With the upcoming features being added to the FS100 via firmware, it's got me re-thinking that camera.
I cut my teeth on film. I know full well the things we had to do when shooting it, but we also had the benefit of an optical viewfinder, proper cinema lenses, and occasionally a good AC to make it all work. These days my budgets rarely allow for an AC, so I rely on tools like expanded focus assist and I sorely miss it.
Ed Kishel
Veteran
The FS100 and AF100, two cameras aimed at the same market- seem to have different philosophies when it comes to feature requests from its users. Panasonic (via user forums like this) wants to know what features you want in a new model. But after it comes out- don't expect any added or improved features- only bug fixes. And I would argue that the warning icon added for the VFR/levels issue was a quick fix- and not an added feature. It has to be possible to remove the levels btw- you can do it yourself in the menu.
Sony on the other hand- has no rep in the forums (that I have seen), and featured out the FS based on thier own research and not from forum requests. But once the camera came out, they are more flexible with firmware updates per user requests: like making it NTSC/PAL switchable, expanded focus, aspect ratios, and iso/focus/shutter display improvements. So they are both responsive to customer needs- just in different ways. As a long time Panasonic user, I've learned that if the features you need aren't in the specs- don't buy it. And if you do, don't expect new additions (as those may arrive with a new model i.e. DVX100A)
Although I prefer peaking- I understand the need for expanded focus in some instances. My workaround is: have the VF (in B&W) with peaking turned on, the LCD with the waveform activated, and 5" portable monitor w/ expanded focus. With this I have an exposure tool and two focus tools at the same time.
Sony on the other hand- has no rep in the forums (that I have seen), and featured out the FS based on thier own research and not from forum requests. But once the camera came out, they are more flexible with firmware updates per user requests: like making it NTSC/PAL switchable, expanded focus, aspect ratios, and iso/focus/shutter display improvements. So they are both responsive to customer needs- just in different ways. As a long time Panasonic user, I've learned that if the features you need aren't in the specs- don't buy it. And if you do, don't expect new additions (as those may arrive with a new model i.e. DVX100A)
Although I prefer peaking- I understand the need for expanded focus in some instances. My workaround is: have the VF (in B&W) with peaking turned on, the LCD with the waveform activated, and 5" portable monitor w/ expanded focus. With this I have an exposure tool and two focus tools at the same time.
You are naive if you beleave what they tell you. Big companies know only one language: How to make more profit...Wait, that's impossible!
Barry and others here jumped ALL over me earlier this year when I suggested the Sony cameras might get future firmware updates that added functionality and refinements for customers, and that maybe Panasonic should consider a similar approach. A few people here were quite...well.. unkind about it, actually.
They said it "just doesn't happen in the industry". They said companies "can't continue to develop firmware for a camera once the camera was released into the market" - the businesses just can't (and don't) operate that way - unless it was to fix a major bug, or to add something already promised at initial release. These were the reasons given as to why Panasonic couldn't do it. When I presented reasonable counter-arguments, I was basically laughed at, and told I was "beating a dead horse" and it would NEVER happen.
Now here we sit, SEVERAL firmware releases for the F3 and FS100 later - with MUCH functionality and tweaks added (things NOT promised pre-release).
So, it seems, it CAN be done, and IS being done in the industry. It seems I wasn't so naive and ill-informed after all.
If they see "the Light", they will think of another reason why. Look at the all mighty P2 memory modules. They were so expensive that only a person with lots of money could buy them. Then there was some complains about the price and the sales weren't that great, so they "invented" the cheaper P2 module with so they tell you shorter lifespan, but which is still way out of the league of being acceptable priced. Sony did the same with the expresscard. They were not so lucky when somebody circumvented it with a cheap adapter to use the SD-cards that quite a lot camera's are using now. There arguments was that SD was not made for video recording (i.e. it was not so reliable) - Sony is now selling there own adapter for SD-cards to use in the EX-series. IMO, you always get some S... answer, but never the truth - sorry the facts (the truth is like a color, it changes with the light)
take2visualmedia
Well-known member
Focus in red. It's a fantastic feature and we have it on constantly. End of discussion.
...which they often do by delivering products that customers want to purchase. Funny how that works.
As to firmware philosophies, it seems that Panasonic's Lumix division was somewhat listening to customer input on their latest GH2 firmware (25p and 30p HBR plus other bits). Perhaps there could be some carry-over.
Bern Caughey
Veteran
Bern Caughey
Veteran
Exactly.
It's tied to sharpening, & low contrast, or soft edges, often don't register.
Ed Kishel
Veteran
In those cases the flashlight trick often works- it's not ideal but it helps.
Bern Caughey
Veteran
For sure it would help, but doesn't fit our workflow, especially multicam shoots with celebs.
I've resorted to using an external EVF, & rarely use the AF100's. Works a charm.
EidolonFilms
Well-known member
When I first got the AF100, I thought I could trust the focus in red (with DTL off and using B&W mode on the EVF) and found that it works pretty well. It definitely suffers on any wide shot however, especially if there are lots of contrasty/sharp objects like a wide scenic with trees, bushes and people for example. It pretty much puts everything in red, when I know that not everything is in crisp focus. In those cases it's nearly impossible to feel confident about the focus. For that reason I definitely think expanded focus was a strange feature to leave out. FIR works most of the time, but there are cases where there is literally nothing you can do to get it to work properly, and have to rely on an external monitor. Now I use an external monitor all the time (even when the weight/extra bulk may get in the way during a run and gun shoot) simply to always feel confident that I am nailing focus, but it would be nice to have expanded focus in extreme cases.
Shooter
Veteran
Even if Panasonic can or can not sort an "expanded focus" via firmware for the AF100..there are available solutions.
1.An external monitor (with the desired focus aid features)
2.Auto focus lenses
3.Collimated cine lenses (with accurate datum / witness marks)
4.Focus Pullers
5.Skilled camera operators.
6. ...
Cameras have always been used outside their design scope and have had challenges.
Hitler used Arriflex 35mm Film Cameras with turret lens mounts for documentary shooting. True "run and gun" .
He was not alone in this... but did you ever hear Hitler whine about focus assist?
The AF100 is a challenge of its own time and making.
Its success is how the challenges it creates are resolveable.
...and its not a camera for sissies ( according to Hitler).
Hey ..if it had additional focus aids...we would use them. Meantime..we have that covered. (see list points 1-6)
1.An external monitor (with the desired focus aid features)
2.Auto focus lenses
3.Collimated cine lenses (with accurate datum / witness marks)
4.Focus Pullers
5.Skilled camera operators.
6. ...
Cameras have always been used outside their design scope and have had challenges.
Hitler used Arriflex 35mm Film Cameras with turret lens mounts for documentary shooting. True "run and gun" .
He was not alone in this... but did you ever hear Hitler whine about focus assist?
The AF100 is a challenge of its own time and making.
Its success is how the challenges it creates are resolveable.
...and its not a camera for sissies ( according to Hitler).
Hey ..if it had additional focus aids...we would use them. Meantime..we have that covered. (see list points 1-6)
trw_mavrik
Active member
I believe the goose step walk and raised arm salutes were early attempts at camera stability training. I also heard that his little moustache was great as a lens cleaner.
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