Expanded Focus Assist via Firmware Update?

Cinesota

Cinesota

Active member
I like all things about my AF100 but the lack of an expanded focus assist drives me nuts. I really miss this feature. My HMC150 has it. The red peaking on the AF100 is usable but doesn't exactly inspire confidence. Is there any indication this might be on Panasonic's radar to add via a future firmware update?
 
I think when the camera first came out, Jan or Barry said that it had something to do with the OLPF, but I could be wrong. If that is the case though, I doubt a firmware update would be able to add it.
 
Cinesota said:
I like all things about my AF100 but the lack of an expanded focus assist drives me nuts. I really miss this feature. My HMC150 has it. The red peaking on the AF100 is usable but doesn't exactly inspire confidence. Is there any indication this might be on Panasonic's radar to add via a future firmware update?
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Jan has specifically said it is not possible via firmware.
 
My AC, Greg, uses the red peaking in my AF102 with great confidence and in the most critical of situations. eg close up macro tracking, object to object.

He is an excellent focus puller in any circumstances but I know he puts a lot of faith and regard in it.

He also has the tools in the external monitor at his disposal ( but I usually have that to operate from.) and of course the large field monitor.

I have never heard him call a shot inaccurately ..if he thinks it went soft as we track past x to y on the way to z...it will be soft on the replay check even if just for an instant.

Both of us coming from "film" think the focus tools we have in the AF102 are bloody luxury.
 
I agree with Shooter. Although the zoom in feature is nice, my external monitor can do that, and besides...the real benefit of the red focus assist IMO is during shots. Who wants to film a shot in progress with a zoom assist turned on?
 
A really good focus puller doesn't even need a monitor. Just accurate witness marks on the lens. However, it's still baffling that Panasonic excluded the feature and says it can't be added when Sony is able to update their camera.
 
Exactly right Kyle.

During moving shots is where it gets critical and you cant shoot / operate in a focus assist zoomed up mode. (Only use for it is a start point or a static un pulled shot.
and I can tell that from the field monitor anyway)

Real good focus pullers who are used to "driving" cine lenses must rely on monitors because of all the stills type lenses we throw at them. Impossible to measure and relate to the datums etc on a stills lens. With tools as good as red peaking...who would blame them for using the technology.

I shoot and operate many shots with red peaking buzzing all over the image. Got used to it actually and I can kind of shut it out of my mind now.
 
Yes, I was referring to using cinema lenses, not still lenses. With still lenses you can't really rely on witness marks, so yes the focus assists are necessary. The perfect combination is having zoom and red/peaking. I agree that zoom isn't that useful during shooting.
 
I have zoom focus on the TV Logic Monitor and I use it. It is pretty handy for setting marks and for locked down shots. I really like to use it with wide lenses where things can get a little soft. If it were on the AF100 it would have been nice.
 
Maheel said:
FWIW, Sony has released a firmware upgrade to FS 100 which provide X4 and X8 expanded focus.
Click to expand...

Wait, that's impossible! ;)

Barry and others here jumped ALL over me earlier this year when I suggested the Sony cameras might get future firmware updates that added functionality and refinements for customers, and that maybe Panasonic should consider a similar approach. A few people here were quite...well.. unkind about it, actually.

They said it "just doesn't happen in the industry". They said companies "can't continue to develop firmware for a camera once the camera was released into the market" - the businesses just can't (and don't) operate that way - unless it was to fix a major bug, or to add something already promised at initial release. These were the reasons given as to why Panasonic couldn't do it. When I presented reasonable counter-arguments, I was basically laughed at, and told I was "beating a dead horse" and it would NEVER happen.

Now here we sit, SEVERAL firmware releases for the F3 and FS100 later - with MUCH functionality and tweaks added (things NOT promised pre-release).

So, it seems, it CAN be done, and IS being done in the industry. It seems I wasn't so naive and ill-informed after all.
 
And Canon has done that as well, adding features and capability to the 5Dmk2, which has been around for a few years already and they're still releasing firmware updates.

Panasonic is going to lose customers because they "can't". I've pretty much already decided I probably won't buy another Panasonic camera. I say that in a not fully committal way because I am hopeful that Panasonic will see the light and come around.
 
Yeah, I actually said "If Sony does it, but Panasonic doesn't - they're going to lose me as a customer".

And Sony did it, in spades. And Panasonic didn't, at all. I guess I need to decided now if I'm going to put my money where my mouth is...
 
Don't mean to derail, but...

Steve R, what did Duclos do to your Voigtlander lens? I only had them put the focus gear on. They said declicking would be super expensive.
 
The lack of an expanded focus is really a missing feature for me. I love my AF101 but sometimes getting the right focus is very hard and you cannot have a monitor with you everywhere or for every shot.
I can't get why my € 600 Canon 550D can do an excellent expanded focus (not to mention the very good focus peak with magic lantern, much better than the red focus assist of AF101), while my AF101 (€ 4500) cannot do it.
If they cannot fix via firmware I'd call it a project flaw. Let's hope they fix it with AF200 or whatever...
 
KyleProhaska said:
Who wants to film a shot in progress with a zoom assist turned on?
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Me and countless others who has done it years with hvx200 and other cameras and will continue to do so.

I agree that red peaking is better in moving shots, but I still prefer expanding in more stable shots.
There's reason why 1:1 pixels are WYSIWYG.

So unless we hear official statement from Panasonic,
that they strongly believe that red peaking is always better than expanded focus
AND they know better than their customers (like Apple)
AND therefore they will not give options to the users of their products
AND therefore will newer incorporate both features in any camera model,
I'll just assume that getting both features in same Panny's product is more like adjusting where the resources are used (like preferring new models over upgrades to existing),
not about what's possible or how the ideal camera should work.

I also think that WAY more important to Panny, would be to make sure that there would exist >10x servo zoom for 4/3" video.
FS100 & F3 have them, AF100 does not.

Competition is getting tougher to AF100 when FS100 is getting 1080p50 and PAL/NTSC switchability and also when one russian coder can push more bandwidth from Lumix than Panny offers in AF100.
Maybe Barry could update AF-FS comparison after FS's firmware upgrade and maybe even add Lumix to make it 3-ways-comparison?
 
I'm not big on the idea of adding expanded focus, however in shallow DOF interview situations it is nice to check exactly where the focus falls off, and I have been in situations where using an external monitor during the interview is impossible/ impractical and have missed critical focus... however that is a rarity.

However, as a four generation Panasonic owner (DVX, HVX, HPX, AF100) I am extremely disappointed that Sony, Red, and Canon continue to support their products over the course of their lifetime, while Panasonic's philosophy remains a stubborn "you get what you buy." I love the camera and the images I can produce with it, but unfortunately I think it may be my last Panny. Future Proofing gets thrown around a lot on here, and it's one of my biggest concerns staying a Panny user. If all their competitors upgrade their cameras via firmware how can I rationally buy a camera that will never be updated to remain competitive? Things have been changing faster and faster since I bought the AF100, and I believe a lot of the "issues" could have been solved through firmware updates (example GH2 FS100), however Panasonic ignored them, and the camera has earned it's reputation rightly. Again I love the camera, but I don't see how I would ever justify going Panasonic again unless it was truly the mythic "Perfect Camera".
 
Mike@AF said:
Don't mean to derail, but...

Steve R, what did Duclos do to your Voigtlander lens? I only had them put the focus gear on. They said declicking would be super expensive.
Click to expand...

In addition to the focus gear, they indeed de-clicked the iris, and added an 80mm front - all at their standard rate.

It may be that they, at first investigation, didn't think it could be done - but then determined a cost-effective method that would work.
 
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