Excessive GH1 FPN?

Darn. :( Mine's TERRIBLE in comparison. You say your old one improved over time? If so, then there's hope.


I've just been checking some pictures, and it seems that they're affected by this FPN too: That's ISO160. My old 6 megapixel Lumix would look better!

I've also noticed a weird phenomena where one part of the picture is really bright, and the other dark: http://www.mediafire.com/?hyn7qek1lnky81j I thought only CCDs were affected by this kind of streaking. ISO100 btw. The noise on the television is rubbish.
 
Can you return your GH or get it replaced? Might be a faulty sensor...does look bad again! I am aware that you can get some band from using higher iso shooting at bright and dark contrasts. But at 160 iso you should not be having it.

The only other thing I can say is have i exposure off as well as NR off as both have a habit of causing image artifacts.

Hope you get it sorted...panasonic needs a slap.
 
mimirsan said:
Like mojo i only see a little fpn at above iso 800 but nowhere the degree of whats on display here (having it at iso100 is not acceptable).
anything under 800...nothing....it might be "there" but I cant see it.

There is clearly differences between models but I dont think its a china/japan thing.

Both my GH1s are china models...ones a jan 2009 model ones a jan 2010 model. The jan 2010 model seems cleaner out of the box.
My older model improved over time...I used it consistantly for nearly a year now.

Also fpn vastly improved when I stopped using the slow kit f3.5/f4. lense for indoor/lowlight shooting. Shoot with a fast lense with correct exposure at lower iso's will give you clean results.
Click to expand...


That's what happened with my camera, it started out really really bad and got slightly better until I did the burn in process, which helped a lot. My friend bought a newer GH1(one of the last of the hackable ones) and it was MUCH better right out of the box than my camera was out of the box. our cameras were roughly the same after I did my burn-in. His never seemed to improve any.

I always try to light scenes more than needed to make sure the banding is low.
 
mimirsan said:
Can you return your GH or get it replaced? Might be a faulty sensor...does look bad again! I am aware that you can get some band from using higher iso shooting at bright and dark contrasts. But at 160 iso you should not be having it.

The only other thing I can say is have i exposure off as well as NR off as both have a habit of causing image artifacts.

Hope you get it sorted...panasonic needs a slap.
Click to expand...

I can't really return it because it was bought from eBay. Although, it did come with a receipt, but I doubt I can use it because the camera was bought with the kit lens, but not sold with it. Anyway, it's hardly been used, so the seller probably decided to sell it because of the sensor's poor performance. You're right, Panasonic really needs a slap.

I'll try the burn in, but I have my doubts.
 
To burn in, all I need to do is leave the camera on in video mode, with the lens cap on, correct? Any particular ISO or shutter speed? :)
 
Nostalgic usually. I like the smooth highlights it produces. The first video I posted in this thread was 'standard', though.

I've tried different profiles, and although there's a small difference in FPN, it's not that pronounced.
 
Matthew P said:
Nostalgic usually. I like the smooth highlights it produces. The first video I posted in this thread was 'standard', though.

I've tried different profiles, and although there's a small difference in FPN, it's not that pronounced.
Click to expand...

I have a friend who recently bought a gh1 (ironically WE0A) and hes just popped round with it...sure enough bad FPN...Sooo Ive lent him one of mine and with his agreement I am going to try the burn in.

Cap on iso 1600 2-3 days

I have shot a dark corridor iso 800 shutter 30 to 50 showing the fpn and saved it....after a couple of days "burning" I will show results....see if its fact or fiction.

Watch this space :thumbsup:
 
Keep us informed mimirsan! I'm also going to try and get some before and after shots whilst I try the burn in. Fingers crossed!
 
mimirsan said:
Like mojo i only see a little fpn at above iso 800 but nowhere the degree of whats on display here (having it at iso100 is not acceptable).
anything under 800...nothing....it might be "there" but I cant see it.

There is clearly differences between models but I dont think its a china/japan thing.

Both my GH1s are china models...ones a jan 2009 model ones a jan 2010 model. The jan 2010 model seems cleaner out of the box.
My older model improved over time...I used it consistantly for nearly a year now.

Also fpn vastly improved when I stopped using the slow kit f3.5/f4. lense for indoor/lowlight shooting. Shoot with a fast lense with correct exposure at lower iso's will give you clean results.
Click to expand...


Lol - why would a burn in work? Think about it logically.... At any rate your post is very telling - the burn in worked for you... BUT.... "Also fpn vastly improved when I stopped using the slow kit f3.5/f4. lense for indoor/lowlight shooting. Shoot with a fast lense with correct exposure at lower iso's will give you clean result"

Ummm yeah.... the noise reduced... when you started using a faster lens. Then with your retrospectoscope you have put 2+2 together to reach 5.

I am firmly of the belief that all GH1's have this problem (which should be called banding noise - not fixed pattern noise.) I have personally seen less banding on my shots as time has gone on - but whaddya know? i have also been much more concious of what conditions create it and what lens to use in what situation! I can re create terrible banding with no bother at all.

If people really want to save a banded shot then I have recently been experimenting with device noise profiles in neat video - will put another post up about this soon.
 
I wonder if anyone has ever tried cleaning the sensor? Not the automatic in-cam cleaning...but manually getting something to wipe down the sensor (that's made for that purpose of course). I ask because I strongly believe what we are looking at equates to "stains" on the sensor which has to do with the result of bad packaging in the "pre-manufacturing" stage. All we are seeing in certain conditions (like in direct sunlight or increase of internal gain) is the reflection of that sensor stain. I believe this more and more especially because not every cam has this problem (some worse than others). It's like the sensor was covered with some sort of protective tape before the assemblers got to them. And after they removed the protective covering they never wiped them down. I'm just throwing that out there.

Maybe send your cam in under warranty and demand a sensor cleaning.
 
I doubt that this is true. From research I've done (someone linked a really good page awhile ago too I forget what thread) it seems that this sort of artifacting is caused when the camera tries to brighten up really dark areas....this is why it happens more with the "flat" picture profiles. I've even seen it on the 5D in really extreme situations.
 
Ben_B said:
I doubt that this is true. From research I've done (someone linked a really good page awhile ago too I forget what thread) it seems that this sort of artifacting is caused when the camera tries to brighten up really dark areas....this is why it happens more with the "flat" picture profiles. I've even seen it on the 5D in really extreme situations.
Click to expand...

Suggesting iExposure is the culprit of the worst of it, perhaps?
 
the doc said:
Lol - why would a burn in work? Think about it logically.... At any rate your post is very telling - the burn in worked for you... BUT.... "Also fpn vastly improved when I stopped using the slow kit f3.5/f4. lense for indoor/lowlight shooting. Shoot with a fast lense with correct exposure at lower iso's will give you clean result"

Ummm yeah.... the noise reduced... when you started using a faster lens. Then with your retrospectoscope you have put 2+2 together to reach 5.

I am firmly of the belief that all GH1's have this problem (which should be called banding noise - not fixed pattern noise.) I have personally seen less banding on my shots as time has gone on - but whaddya know? i have also been much more concious of what conditions create it and what lens to use in what situation! I can re create terrible banding with no bother at all.

If people really want to save a banded shot then I have recently been experimenting with device noise profiles in neat video - will put another post up about this soon.
Click to expand...


Bahhhhh humbug! :)
 
I make a lot of electronics stuff, like Hi-fi and other bits and pieces, and I'm pretty sure that burning certain components in (using them for a prolonged period from new) does indeed improve their performance up to a peak after which they age. This only applies to SOME electronics components, like IC chips, valves, fets, certain diodes, possibly some types of capacitor, in my experience.. I'm not saying it will work, but there are very sound electronics reasons why a camera MIGHT improve in performance with use. (A typical burn in of a DAC IC chip can be 20-50 hours of use or so).
 
Hi - there was a discussion about this a couple of months ago.

I posted up some test stuff on Vimeo -various shots, each getting wilder and more absurd, as my chief detractor remained doggedly unconvinced ;)

Hence, they go from a normal room light shot, to blundering about in total darkness in the garden (and risking breaking my neck)

There's also one taken under street light, working down through the f/stops,, and finally, a gloriously irrelevant test of a blank wall (again, switching through the f/stops.

For the record, my camera is December 09 - that's WE (China) '9' (year) 'L' December.

Your WE0A model is January 2010 - WE '0' (2010) 'A' (first month)

I make no further comment about my GH1 - except to say I'm happy with it, and that I bought a second December 09 model (a few serial numbers away from the first one) because I reckoned that December was a 'good month' for them ;)


Here's the first Vimeo link - once you're on the page you'll see the others. http://vimeo.com/16894125
 
Framerate said:
I make no further comment about my GH1 - except to say I'm happy with it, and that I bought a second December 09 model (a few serial numbers away from the first one) because I reckoned that December was a 'good month' for them ;)


Here's the first Vimeo link - once you're on the page you'll see the others. http://vimeo.com/16894125
Click to expand...

Is your second GH1 as good as your first?
 
rigs said:
Is your second GH1 as good as your first?
Click to expand...


Mercifully, yes. They both came from the same store - the first one was only £250, and I bought it because I couldn't resist it at that price, although I was waiting for a GH2 .

When I found myself happy with it I cancelled my GH2 order, and then the store got a few more GH1's in at Christmas. I checked they were the same batch, and bought another one (price up by £50 this time ) hoping that it would be as good (I could have always sent it back if necessary)

Sounds daft - but having got it, I'm scratching my head about what to do with it :) I don't actually *need* it - but I've realised that good GH1's are not that common, and I couldn't bear to leave it there 'just in case', especially as it was still a good price for a brand new one, even at £300.

I can always sell it, I suppose - so no problem, but sod's law decrees that as soon as I do, I'll drop and break my own cam and be unable to find another.

To me, all this just underlines that GH1's can vary wildly between batches - I'm just not lucky enough to land two good cameras out of a generally bad batch, so all those WE9Lxxx's are probably good.

My own pet theory is that it's down to the variable quality of the components being assembled, rather than the assembly itself - some sort of electrically induced noise from components either below spec, or at the extreme edge of acceptable tolerance.

Just my own thought, though.

Bottom line - poor QC by Panasonic, I'm afraid.
 
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