Excessive GH1 FPN?

Matthew P

Matthew P

Well-known member
I've had my GH1 for a couple of days now. Great so far! Mine seems to exhibit very little banding which is nice, but there seems to be FPN on almost all shots. Here's an ISO 800 clip (look at the tarmac)....

http://www.mediafire.com/?enuc4np004b78gf

It shows up even at ISO 100. :( I didn't think I'd find it quite as annoying as it actually is.

So, is this excessive FPN for ISO 800, and is it normal for it to show up on all ISOs? :huh:
 
Does look quite bad, but probably within the range of what I get on mine on a bad day.
And yes, I do occassionally see it at ISO100 in very flat underexposed shots.

As has been discuessed at length elsewhere, there are so many factors that influence how bad the fpn is that its very difficult to compare cameras.

If you really want to know if your camera is worse than others, you need to do a side-by-side comparison with everthing identical and post the results. It would be great to finally nail the issue with some good side by side footage.
 
Matthew P said:
I've had my GH1 for a couple of days now. Great so far! Mine seems to exhibit very little banding which is nice, but there seems to be FPN on almost all shots. Here's an ISO 800 clip (look at the tarmac)....

http://www.mediafire.com/?enuc4np004b78gf

It shows up even at ISO 100. :( I didn't think I'd find it quite as annoying as it actually is.

So, is this excessive FPN for ISO 800, and is it normal for it to show up on all ISOs? :huh:
Click to expand...

Hey Matthew,

I bet your GH1 body is made in China/Xiamen?
Well I had the exact same issue, except that I also had excessive banding too! I returned the camera and decided to wait for the GH2.
It seems that units made in Japan do not have these banding + FPN issues. I will tell you when I receive my Japanese GH2!

Here is what my GH1 footage looked like (look at the HD version on Vimeo, the FPN and Banding are more visible!)


You will find more info here:
http://www.eoshd.com/content.php/175-Panasonic-recognising-GH1-banding-issue

You don't have many options here, I don't see how you can remove this FPN even in post.

Cheers
 
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Yeah, it was made in China. :( The body firmware is WE0A, which is July 2010 I believe. Still, I got it for £256 (about $400) with an extra battery (which doesn't actually last very long), so I can't complain too much.

Photo wise, mine isn't quite as good (banding wise) as that guy's newer GH1 in the DPReview forum, but it's not nearly as bad as his old one either. When I hit record, banding seems to go away (in 1080p mode; it seems to stick around in 720p), but FPN stays the same. FPN doesn't show up in photos at least.

Maybe not as good a bargain as I thought?

Edit: that video you posted seems to be about the same as mine when it's at ISO 1600+. Still, I have noticed a slight decrease in the predominance of the FPN. Hopefully that trend will continue.
 
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Is there any easy way to tell if the GH1 is made in China, or not?? By serial or date of manufacture?
 
gibna76 said:
Hey Matthew,

I bet your GH1 body is made in China/Xiamen?
Well I had the exact same issue, except that I also had excessive banding too! I returned the camera and decided to wait for the GH2.
It seems that units made in Japan do not have these banding + FPN issues. I will tell you when I receive my Japanese GH2!

Here is what my GH1 footage looked like (look at the HD version on Vimeo, the FPN and Banding are more visible!)


You will find more info here:
http://www.eoshd.com/content.php/175-Panasonic-recognising-GH1-banding-issue

You don't have many options here, I don't see how you can remove this FPN even in post.

Cheers
Click to expand...


That footage is ISO 3200?? I don't understand how people do not expect to see this type of thing at a high ISO and call it unacceptable.
 
Matthew P said:
I've had my GH1 for a couple of days now. Great so far! Mine seems to exhibit very little banding which is nice, but there seems to be FPN on almost all shots. Here's an ISO 800 clip (look at the tarmac)....

http://www.mediafire.com/?enuc4np004b78gf

It shows up even at ISO 100. :( I didn't think I'd find it quite as annoying as it actually is.

So, is this excessive FPN for ISO 800, and is it normal for it to show up on all ISOs? :huh:
Click to expand...



Everything in that shot looks underexposed to me, but nonetheless the FPN looks really bad! I can shoot a similar type shot later tonight to see if I get the same results....
 
havasuphoto said:
Is there any easy way to tell if the GH1 is made in China, or not?? By serial or date of manufacture?
Click to expand...


Mine just says 'made in China' on its underside.

Everything in that shot looks underexposed to me, but nonetheless the FPN looks really bad! I can shoot a similar type shot later tonight to see if I get the same results....
Click to expand...

Great! I'd like to see how it compares.

I know my shot was too underexposed, but it was as bright as I could get it without going to ISO1600. The worst thing is when it shows up on peoples' faces. :(
 
Ohhhh.... I thought this was shot at ISO 100. This is completely normal at ISO 800 being that underexposed. I can test tonight, but I am definitely sure this will show up in my footage at that high of an ISO. It should at 100 though...
 
All gh1's have FPN...Well almost all. Some people say they don't have it, but it's still there. Anything 3 stops underexposed regardless of ISO will exhibit some banding. Adding more contrast in post or while shooting helps to hide the problem and lighting a bit hot helps as well. The gh2 regardless of where it's made isn't going to show any FPN. At least from initial reports. I tried one at a local camera store and didn't see any when I stopped the lens waaaay down and boosted ISO. Sure your usual digital noise and everything, but not the copious FPN of my old gh1.
 
Hey mojo, are those photo stills or video stills you put up? Yours looks very clean. Would a GH1 that exhibits FPN in video show the same FPN in a photo mode? Just wondering because I don't have my GH1 with me yet. Also, is yours a China or Japan made?
 
Looks like you've got one with little FPN, mojo. :) Unless it's there but hard to see when the image isn't moving. What's your take on it?


Goodgoings - I've noticed that FPN goes away completely in photo mode. I don't know if there's some kind of noise reduction going on or something. Banding stays the same though.
 
Like mojo i only see a little fpn at above iso 800 but nowhere the degree of whats on display here (having it at iso100 is not acceptable).
anything under 800...nothing....it might be "there" but I cant see it.

There is clearly differences between models but I dont think its a china/japan thing.

Both my GH1s are china models...ones a jan 2009 model ones a jan 2010 model. The jan 2010 model seems cleaner out of the box.
My older model improved over time...I used it consistantly for nearly a year now.

Also fpn vastly improved when I stopped using the slow kit f3.5/f4. lense for indoor/lowlight shooting. Shoot with a fast lense with correct exposure at lower iso's will give you clean results.
 
ISO 100 FPN :( http://www.mediafire.com/?2wj6e34ncdy5p4k

If I were to shoot in this lighting with the subject sitting in front of the window, the subject would be correctly exposed, but the background wouldn't (as in this shot). The only option I'd have is to fill in the background with some lighting, I suppose.

Me complaining about it isn't going to make it go away though. :) I'll just have to deal.
 
Matthew P said:
ISO 100 FPN :( http://www.mediafire.com/?2wj6e34ncdy5p4k

If I were to shoot in this lighting with the subject sitting in front of the window, the subject would be correctly exposed, but the background wouldn't (as in this shot). The only option I'd have is to fill in the background with some lighting, I suppose.

Me complaining about it isn't going to make it go away though. :) I'll just have to deal.
Click to expand...

WOW! That IS pretty bad! What serial number yours have? I now can understand why some have issues with the GH1's fpn. I will post up a short vid from both mine when I get a moment. you could try the burn in trick...not too sure if it works...never tried it...but my old GH1s fpn improved over time with regular use.
 
goodgoings said:
Hey mojo, are those photo stills or video stills you put up? Yours looks very clean. Would a GH1 that exhibits FPN in video show the same FPN in a photo mode? Just wondering because I don't have my GH1 with me yet. Also, is yours a China or Japan made?
Click to expand...

These are stills taken from video. The photos don't exhibit the same FPN as in video. I'll have to check tonight where mine is from....

Matthew P said:
Looks like you've got one with little FPN, mojo. :) Unless it's there but hard to see when the image isn't moving. What's your take on it?


Goodgoings - I've noticed that FPN goes away completely in photo mode. I don't know if there's some kind of noise reduction going on or something. Banding stays the same though.
Click to expand...

There is no banding in the video either. I think that my exposure in these shots, although still underexposed, is just not as underexposed as your shots and this is why you are seeing it. If you shoot with correct exposure then it should go away. I think that people are trying to shoot in the dark with the kit lens (which is slow) and are seeing this kind of thing come up. Also, I am not sure if you have tried but the burn in might help (what do you have to lose)? :)
 
Matthew P said:
ISO 100 FPN :( http://www.mediafire.com/?2wj6e34ncdy5p4k

If I were to shoot in this lighting with the subject sitting in front of the window, the subject would be correctly exposed, but the background wouldn't (as in this shot). The only option I'd have is to fill in the background with some lighting, I suppose.

Me complaining about it isn't going to make it go away though. :) I'll just have to deal.
Click to expand...

I read somewhere that if you have something in the foreground exposed correctly then it should be better. Try to put something in the foreground (correctly exposed) and see what you get?
 
Here you go...very dim room underexposed.

http://www.mediafire.com/?nmdm35s2dytg596

Joined with tsmuxer (hence ts ext) as you can see no fpn at iso 100 some visable at iso 800 on my old jan 2009 china model. Ignore the blocking artifacts in darker area I forgot I had the cam hacked with b settings 25p native til my new faster sdhc card is delivered (previous one died). I usually use pappasarts high bitrate setting normally.
But you get the idea that fpn isnt as bad.
 
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