EX1 footage from KERBEROS

Ha! Sometimes my wife and I will be watching a movie at home and she's engrossed in the story and I'll say something like, "notice the great jib shot in this scene?", or "check out the nice dolly move", or "see how they slowly zoomed in on her face to emphasize her emotions"? I keep it minimal because it annoys my wife, ha ha! I can enjoy a movie for what it is without over analyzing it, but when you know what goes on behind the scenes it's enjoyable to see the moves and angles they chose to tell the story.

As a photographer, I do the same with still images. But so far I haven't let the technical side interfere with my enjoyment of the creative side. Well, usually. I would spend many months in the wilderness enjoying the beauty for what it is, and fishing and enjoying sunsets. Since I got more serious about photography I often spend much of my prime 'sunrise' and 'sunset' time taking a bunch of pictures instead of leaning back against a rock and enjoying it for what it is, which sometimes bugs me. But I enjoy the photography too. With wilderness adventure videography obviously there's the "adventure" and then there's all the set up and spending as much or more time concerned about capturing the adventure. Which takes away from the flow of the adventure itself. There's a fine line between creating and simply enjoying. Aren't I the philosophical one today?
 
Buck Forester said:
Ha! Sometimes my wife and I will be watching a movie at home and she's engrossed in the story and I'll say something like, "notice the great jib shot in this scene?", or "check out the nice dolly move", or "see how they slowly zoomed in on her face to emphasize her emotions"? I keep it minimal because it annoys my wife, ha ha!
Click to expand...

Face it you are now infected with the technology! LOL
We can't help it - It's our creative nature to understand the process.
 
I read on another site where the director of this film (I'm assuming he's the director - apparently he's the one filming and editing it) said he was having rolling shutter issues with the flashes (police cars, gunshot flashes, strobes, camera flashes) that he had to do extra post work to correct, but he's still glad he chose to shoot this on the EX1 because of other advantages it brings. For this kind of shoot maybe we need an HVEX1a.
 
I think it's great to know the science in such specifics...my comment was more directed to filmmakers to take note of how precise the art of filmmaking should be...in ALL aspects...particularily with the seed or kernel of the entire piece of work...The Story and the Acting...

But on the tech side, I do think it is worth noting that there is an obsession with achieving the cinematic look of film which ironically is not as perfect as HDV (or where that is heading)...just try getting someone to use a Mitchell camera these days...There will be scores of people that will tell you what sucks about that camera now that we have newer and better ones ...YET...invarialbly, when people bring up the subject of the most amazing cinematography ever recorded movies like Lawrence of Arabia and the such come up...I could be wrong but I believe that it was primarily shot on a Mitchell. The camera is indeed the essential and integral tool used to interpret the story but therein is my point...it is there to convey the story...if the story sucks then it doesn't matter how precise or amazing the tool is...conversely, an audience will be more forgiving of a slightly more challenged production standard than they will of a boring story...You only have to go to the movies to see the evidence of 100 million dollar budget movies that have the best technology and technicians yet stink to high heaven. TV too.

So...keep researching the tech, but filmmakers take note that your research should be as elebaorate or even more precise with the content.

My two cents..

Stan The Man
 
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Rolling shutters, actions movies, and KERBEROS TRAILER on the BIG SCREEN!

Rolling shutters, actions movies, and KERBEROS TRAILER on the BIG SCREEN!

The easiest way to get the grunged out, ugliest footage possible with these cameras is to send them to youtube, screen capture them back onto your hard drive, and then uprez as needed.

The other possiblity for the more technically able is to export a tiff or targa sequence and then batch process them with the mozaic filter in photoshop set to multiples of 8.

Stan the Man sent me this link... and I can tell you in many ways.. he is the MAN! Wait till you see him in the movie! So thanks Stan...

Hi everyone!

My name is Kely McClung. I am the director, cinematographer, editor, writer, and yeah, the short haired guy who gets to kick everybody's ass in the movie. (thank God it's just a movie!) I may or may not survive it, same as the production of this flick!

I of course am so pleased that people are liking what they see on the trailer.

I, like some of you, am obsessed with the story and acting. I also happen to believe the look and production values are extremely important for our films so that people will not prejudge and will watch them. We are competing with multi-million dollar films, so we must try harder on all levels.

Couple quick things: this trailer is cut from about half a filmed movie! So we are hoping for something that looks even bigger and better! And number two -no way would I let a frame get by in my trailer with the rolling shutter effect.

But... it was there. On every gunshot, light strobe, camera flash, and police light.

Give me a couple days and I will try to at least post some frame grabs of the before frames - problems glaring at us and give you my own way of fixing it in post.

I do not have all the answers myself; I don't always even know enough to ask the questions. But I'll try to answer as many questions as I can as I work.

There is a LOT of info within the website and blogs on the filmmaking journey of this particular movie and I hope in entertains, informs, and inspires.

thanks and respects to all

kely

http://www.kerberosbites.com
http://www.bloodtiesmovie.com



Oh yeah... on the BIG SCREEN... I will show footage and the trailer from KERBEROS on the big screens of Downtown Disney during the Indie Fest USA Film Festival next week.

I can tell you, that other than the Skywalker Ranch or maybe an IMAX theater, footage will never look or sound better than the 50 to 70 foot screens at Disney... they don't do anything half-ass!

I will be talking on a couple different days about low budget filmmaking and action movies during the fest. If anyone can make it out there, I am there for the week to share and learn and watch some movies.

best to all

k
 
very true - but sometimes... Private Ryan and a ton of other movies notwithstanding, it looks strange in the middle of the footage... it looks effected...

an artistic choice ... and there a couple places we we use it

even though this movie is - like all movies - is contrived - I think it benifits by having a bit of realistic feeling that comes from a more 'naturalistic' feel and by consequence shutter speed... without the budget for the art direction and the props and the lighting I really want and the camera motion of sweeping cranes and dollys - i think i am trying to walk the line and keep the tension and the movie in your face...

a lot of movies have pulled off the entire flick at high shutter speeds to great effect - 28 DAYS comes to mind... but i guess i am trying to use it judiciously and not have to rely on it
 
Thanks Kely!
I'm looking forward to hearing more on your post process.

It appears the EX1 worked out well.
 
Kely, I want to congratulate you on an excellent job. I would love to find out what options are available to us to view your finished work. I am impressed that not only were you able to get such a professional looking production on a small budget, but that you were able to do this without a 35mm adapter.

And like Stevet, I would enjoy hearing anything that you would like to share about your post process. Things like, did you use a colorist or did you use AE or Color and do it yourself, will the final output be to film and if so what editor did you use, anything for those of us dreaming about what you are actually doing. Thanks to you and Stan for sharing your trailer.
 
Hi Kely,

Great job on the film.... Hope it does well for you!

Couple questions:

- I notice some very tight composition.(I love it) Is that a technique to get big bold images or to get more selective focus out of the stock lens..... Or both reasons?

- It's obvious you did your homework on which camera to use. Even though the Sony had some potential issues for you. You still chose to use the EX1 ..... Why?

frisco
 
Thanks for all the interest guys...Kely might be asleep but I can tell you that His seminar at INDFIEFEST is on at 4:30pm Tuesday the 12th,,,same day as my Documentary is playing...here's the link if you are interested
http://www.indiefestusa.com/seminars.htm
I know he'll be screening some footage on that huge AMC Theater screen so you'll all get to see it...Also, Kely did all the editing, color work post work everything...so he should be able to answer those questions for you...for me, my 2 films that will screen were shot for $22 and $44 so don't expect them to look anything like Kerberos, but if you want to see them, they are "So You Want Michael Madsen?" and "It's All a Game". A Doc and a short.

Cheers and thanks again for the interest,
Stan The Man
 
Kely said:
very true - but sometimes... Private Ryan and a ton of other movies notwithstanding, it looks strange in the middle of the footage... it looks effected...

an artistic choice ... and there a couple places we we use it

even though this movie is - like all movies - is contrived - I think it benifits by having a bit of realistic feeling that comes from a more 'naturalistic' feel and by consequence shutter speed... without the budget for the art direction and the props and the lighting I really want and the camera motion of sweeping cranes and dollys - i think i am trying to walk the line and keep the tension and the movie in your face...

a lot of movies have pulled off the entire flick at high shutter speeds to great effect - 28 DAYS comes to mind... but i guess i am trying to use it judiciously and not have to rely on it
Click to expand...


Does look good, and I'm sure high budget films have issues with their cameras too and they either fix it or just leave the footage out.

Wait you're saying 28 Days had a unique shutter other than the typical 24frames... if so I have to take a look: http://www.hulu.com/watch/14177/28-days-later
 
Wow - this is a very active board and thread - which means people are serious about learning and sharing. Awesome...

I am thrilled people are responding to the work - maybe I'll try to put up another scene - unlike a trailer - something that people can view in normal time.

I have seen 'cleaner' footage from these cameras than mine, and with all the talk about sharpness and subsequent degradation in post, etc... (other forum topics and threads) I am not pretending that my film is the best shot footage ever. But it does have a 'look'. Most of that I developed both before and during work on BLOOD TIES.

So... KERBEROS. A few specifics. We are filming with a stock lens. Not necessarily by choice, but practicality. For this film, that means costs. Not just the adapters or lenses, but the cost in possible light loss, additional time, and even just time trying to keep up with the things. More light as an example would mean, well... more lights, and people, and electric concerns, and... With them, I know I could have achieved an even more cinematic 'look' but not sure under these circumstances I could have got as much movie done. And I'm already way behind.

We are not using any major tweaks to the picture profiles, though I do have the detail setting turned down a bit, and I think the black stretch set to give me just a bit more latitude in the shadows. Much of this story is at night or in dark interiors. This came to bite me in the ass a couple days ago and looked hideous to my eye as we we went to shoot a scene in a bar that had a lot of natural light plus what we added - a very diffused 2K, a 1K, and tweeny, and I just took it back to its default profile and was happy with the basic look. It will look nothing like it does now when I am finished.

For an extreme cc difference - I still use a single still from BLOOD TIES to show the possibilites.

I try to be behind camera whenever I can, but I am one of the three leads for the story, so it's difficult. I have had probably 4 other people behind camera so far. The nature of guerilla filmmaking. And I guess we walk the line there. We do have a bit of budget, and some help, but to make a film this ambitious in scope with a crew of 3 to 5 people is not easy. For myself, and I think a lot of you, you realize that the dreams in our head are competing with movies that cost millions - maybe tens of millions. My own way of competing, not just with others but with my personal goals, is to work harder. (it's 4:30 in the morning and I'm up to start my day and writing this post)

I am editing on a MAC with Premiere Pro. I got it because the week I started production, they released the updates which handled the EX1 file system natively. I like Adobe because of the integration between Premiere, After Effects, and Photoshop, and their sound program, though their rationale for not pushing Audition I do not understand.

Unfortunately, I found out later, After Effects can not handle these files yet. So another pain in the ass and a lengthy work around.

No platform volleys here, but the newest latest greatest Mac crashes every bit as much as my older PC, and there are some stability issues added with Premiere on a Mac. Sure they'll get it sorted out, but meanwhile I am trying to make a movie.

I end up doing all my cc and grading in after fx. My way of working on problematic scenes (focus, depth of field issues, color, and grain) is to export a tiff or targa frame - and work out the look in Photoshop, where I am very comfortable. I am now occasionally dropping a frame or two into COLOR which has even more control, and tweak until I have it 'right'.

Whatever that look is that I am able to create for a single frame becomes my goal for the scene itself. Keep in mind, that any look or touch up that you can accomplish in Photoshop to a single frame - can be done to the entire clip - just takes work.

I noticed in other threads, people asking how to learn color correction and grading. My answer is to learn Photoshop. Those tools and concepts carry over to COLOR and the bigger toys with Italian names and of course After Effects stands on its own but can be a good primer for the pyromaniacs of Flame, Smoke, and Inferno.

I export the entire edited sequence as an uncompressed image sequence. I used tiff's for the 4 years of post on BT (Google, in an obvious display of why you should not trust the internet, says I'm the "coolest filmmaker on the planet" not the fastest filmmaker in the world!).

Though I shoot 23.976 progressive, and Premiere handles it, I sometimes get interlacing even on an image sequence. It's a bug in Premiere and it for some reason seems to happen less with Targa, but it still happens. And it will happen in the middle of a clip where everything else seems fine. What's more, if I go to that single frame in the Premiere timeline and export it as a single frame - it's perfect.

For those of you with the discerning eyes, a bit of interlace in the middle of a scene is infuriating. I then have to excise that chunk, and reinterpret the resulting layer - treating it like it was an interlaced clip to begin with. Doesn't happen often, but it is NOT cool. And the resulting resolution of those 30-100 frames is degraded back to what one would expect on an interlaced clip as opposed to progressive.

I like cc in after fx though as said before, there are actually more tools and toys in COLOR which I am slowly tackling. I easily move through the cc tools in a fx but typically i use levels, curves, color balance, and hue saturation. I find it amusing to hit auto color and see the (usually) hideous results, at least I know I can do better than that!

I use everything from the paint tools for touch ups to doubling and tripling up the layers and working with transfer modes to create the look. I use moving vignettes, and multiple masks to create or augment the shadows and highlights. I have tried converting and working in 16bit, I have experimented in using uncompressed Quicktime codecs, tiffs, targas, and the Apple Pro rez codecs.

For me all the codecs give HUGE color shifts. Even an uncompressed Photoshop sequence as opposed to a Tiff or Targa is radically different. Different issues for a diffrent board and maybe I do not know enough, but the tiff and targa can be placed back on the timeline before cc and checked on a pixel by pixel with no change.

I almost never try to make anything sharper - I have my own final steps for treating the footage and attempting to make it look a bit more like film (at least to my eye - see the BT shots and gallerys if you want and remember they were DVX!)

So I end up with huge files that unfortunately I have to drop back into the Premiere timeline where they are dumied down with the codec to play back. But the key for me is that I have them, uncompressed, touched up, color corrected and graded, and edited, waiting for either my output to BLU Ray or with the dream of a film out.

The rolling shutter issues did not scare me because of my expertise in after fx. Still a pain and my efforts aren't always perfect. I did not worry too much about the picture profiles becuase again, I knew I would tackle much of it in post. I love doing the effects (gunshots, smoke, etc..) at the higher resolution. I did literally thousands of touchups on BT, and will on this as well. One of the things I could never be happy with on BT (shot on DVX) was tracking. So to add smoke or anything else for effect or atmosphere was nearly impossible to my eye. Tracking with 6 and half times mroe pixels of 1080P is so much more accurate and easy. Now I understand a bit more why it worked for film and the big boys.

I'll try to post more and keep up with questions. I am new to this board so if it is better to start a new thread, I will be happy to migrate to that. I can see the posting of an entire feature film could get pretty deep. I do not claim to have all the answers, but I search for them constantly and could easily spend days and days sharing on almost any aspect of filmmaking, and I do love cc and grading and finessing an image to create the effect and compliment the emotional content of the scene. And this is just the look - wait till we get to sound!

I'll try to post a couple uncorrected stills that address the rolling shutter concerns

There are a LOT of stills on the website gallery that kind of hint where we are going. Some were done in haste to get them up there, (mostly for the cast and crew) and some were taken from the final cc of the scenes. I think all have been touched up and worked on, these are not raw frame grabs.

Maybe I will encode and preview a single scene that shows off some of the final look I am going for. I have a couple scenes in mind that I have pulled for the talks at Disney next week, but maybe I can debut them here now. Probably not what you are expecting to show off an action movie.. but I like them.

respects and thanks to all -

Gotta get back to work - I've got some people to kill... and beat up... and torture... my mom will be so diappointed...



kely mcclung
 
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