EVS - not so good

Re: EVS - not so good

Sinematik, I do indeed understand your frustration, as 3500 is a lot of money to spend, however, I will still have to take the side of EVS on this one. First of all, it is not their fault that the camera did not work, it is Panasonics. Now I do know that EVS offers a 30day guarantee on their products sold, but this really is not EVS's doing, it has to do with Panasonic alloting them that time to return a product. Panasonic I am sure has strict rules on how long a product can be purchased before it is no longer able to be returned for a new one. If EVS simply said, sure we'll take it back, no problem, then they would be stuck with a $3500 loss.
There really is nothing that EVS could do in that situation, like Rush said, except for reccomend what YOU could do.
I have have worked in the past for a photography studio and photo store that sold cameras. There were a series on Nikon digital cameras that had some serious problems. There were a few that came back right away because the lens stopped working (I know, strange problem). We were able to refund completely their money and get reimbursed by Nikon. However, there were a couple of cameras that didn't crap out until a few months after the purchase date. Even though it was against store policy to take back the camera after a month, we had seen the same problem already and figured that NIkon knew about it and would honor it. Well, long story short, we got stuck with two $450 cameras that did not work, and cost $300 ea. to have fixed. The customer didn't have to pay for the cameras, they got their money back, but my boss had to foot the bill. Is that fair? I ask? He is a private business owner, probably no different than the customer, but why should he still have to pay. I'm sure the customer is still going to the store very fervently, but was that worth footing the bill for a broken camera? Let's just say, I feel for EVS and understand their policy, and it really did seem like, in your first post, that you were attacking EVS personally for this problem, when in reality, it is the problem of Panasonic.
Klaus, I don't think that you have any business talking down a company that you have no experience with. I have been a customer at EVS for some time, and have found them nothing but extremely compitent and fair. Why should RUsh have to say, "wait, before you buy, I would just like to let you know that there is only a 90 day warranty on the heads". He did not make the camera, why does he have to announce that. I'm sure that if the buyer had a question about the warranty Rush would not lie to make a sale, he would tell them about the full warante.

Again to bring all all into a nutshell, neither Rush nor EVS have any fault here at all. ( how many retailers do you see hanging out on online forums offering deals and speaking personally with customers?) If you have beef, take it up with Panasonic. IF it really is a Lemon, Panasonic will deal with it in the way they see fit. Don't expect a retailer to foot the bill.
 
Re: EVS - not so good

I've had nothing but good dealings with EVS, and Rush in particular. I think the blame lies with the manufacturer, Panasonic, and not EVS. I think the title of the topic/thread puts an unfair light on EVS, making them out to be the bad guy. I understand your frustration with the broken DVX100, but I think you should direct it to the right source, and call Panasonic's support line.

Dennis
 
Re: EVS - not so good

You can try and attack the fact that I used to sell cars, hondas, for a short period of time.
But I worked for a very reputable dealership, and I never did and never would even attempt to rip someone. I took the job, along with bartedning, to make money to be able move out West and pursue my true career. So, I'm not ashamed to admit that I sold a product I believed in and have been proud to own. I'm on my 3rd honda/acura right now.

What made me different? I was never in sales before. And to top it off, I was just like the customer. A normal person who loves cars and hondas ( i race them.) All my customers, and even my bosses knew I was a young dude working there to be able to make my way out West and had no desire to be a salesman forever. It was something new to learn and experience, and I did just that. And now, I'm out in LA living my dream and I'm pretty damn good at buying cars. I'll bet you when try and buy a car you drive the dealer and yourself nuts with unreasonable demands that you somehow feel are "justified."

Yeah, car salesmen have low reputations in general. I even hate them myself. But I never acted in a shameful manner, or tried to force a product on someone. I was very much like Rush. Open and honest. I was there to find what people needed and wanted and suited your price. If you didnt like it, good bye. If you change your mind you know where I am.  

I held the highest respect for each and everyone of my customers, except for the few small cases who thought they were above everyone and deserved some kind of special over the top treatment. I bent over backwards serving my customers and going above and beyond the call of duty every time. People you rip off dont send you holiday cards and thank you letters.

As for the movie "suckers"....it was very funny, very well done, I've met Roger Nygard before. The movie pretty much opened the can on old school 4 square deals, not something I'm familiar with as that is not how my dealer did business. But in the end, it was a fictional movie. Wake up and join reality.

So attacking my character and saying I'm the type of sleazeball jerk, when you dont even know me, that was portrayed in that movie further solidfies you as being over-demanding child of a person. Someone who throws a giant tantrum when something doesnt go your way, and becoming even more of a spoiled brat when something cant be done for you by someone else. And you "apology" or clarification was weak and half hearted at best...a sad attempt to not make yourself look like the fool you truly are.

Sinematik and Klaus, I sincerely hope your time is VERY short lived on this board as it is apparent neither of have anything of value to offer except gripes and moans. I find it pretty sad you had to enlist one of your Ga buddies to register and attempt to come to your defense. Of course I wouldnt be shocked to find if Klaus has the same IP as you do.

Your lives must be very sad when you have to come in here and berate a company for not catering to your every idiotic demand (Such as feeling entitled to a new camera after owning one for 9 months.) Or berate a fellow poster because of a job he once held. You are both very very sad people.

After nine months one might call the place of purchase for a quick inquiry, but its common sense to know you have a warranty for a reason and the manufacturer deals with that now. This is a high piece of professional equipment we are talking about. Not a cheap VCR you bought at Wal-Mart.

And to finally end things. I 've met Rush in person though he doesnt know who I am. I spent about half hour talking with him at EVS. because i was debating about getting a dvx or fx1. He was one of the coolest easy going guys in sales I've met. And there was no pressure and he was straight honest about everything. He is not only in sales/rentals he is also a shooter. He is one of us. You owe him your respect, not your petty sniveling.
 
Re: EVS - not so good

[quote author=John_Q_Public link=board=nws;num=1103687064;start=30#42 date=12/23/04 at 01:29:47]
And to finally end things. I 've met Rush in person though he doesnt know who I am. I spent about half hour talking with him at EVS. because i was debating about getting a dvx or fx1. He was one of the coolest easy going guys in sales I've met. And there was no pressure and he was straight honest about everything. He is not only in sales/rentals he is also a shooter. He is one of us. You owe him your respect, not your petty sniveling.[/quote]

I had the same experience... albiet with Cody at EVS.. busy man, before DVXuser even existed he gave me hours of advice...without me spending a dime. best pre-sales support I ever had. Rush helps us out here everyday. Find another store here that does that kind of pre-post sales support. Good luck.
 
s teh heads are tiny and all the frictiopn wears t

s teh heads are tiny and all the frictiopn wears t

[quote author=mickeloaf link=board=nws;num=1103687064;start=0#7 date=12/21/04 at 21:56:34]I would love to hear Jan make an official comment about this "Deck" stance.  I have a real hard time believing that the DVX deck craps out so easy when you actually use it for what it was designed for.[/quote]

It's said that DV heads in camera decks are good for between 1000 and 1500 hours of recording. Shuffling and the like is never a good idea on these cameras as the heads are tiny and all the friction wears them down quick. It is not a deck, but a recorder that happens to play back. My friend Roger Macie repairs DV cameras and will tell you never to use it as a deck. Dedicated decks are for that purpose. Remember, it's a 3000 camera and as a result isn't designed for the abuse that some put them through. Even on my professional cameras I avoid using the cameras as a playback like the plague. My oldest camera is an Ikegami HLV55 which I still use weekly. I've had it for eleven years, and to this day, I have NEVER had to replace the heads which is amazing. Considering i could count the times I've played back in the camera on one hand, I've just given you the reason it is still working well.
 
Re: EVS - not so good

I work in the camera department at Wal-Mart and our policy has changed on returns there. When you buy any camera, film, digital, or video you have only 30 days with the receipt to return it. After that you deal with the manufacturer we will not accept it back. Now Sam's club is six months on there return policies because it is geared towards business.

Rush went above and beyond the call of duty on a part of the camera that was warranted for 90 days, and it was clearly six months past the warranty on that part.
 
Re: Camera as Deck

Re: Camera as Deck

[quote author=mickeloaf link=board=nws;num=1103687064;start=0#7 date=12/21/04 at 21:56:34]I would love to hear Jan make an official comment about this "Deck" stance.  I have a real hard time believing that the DVX deck craps out so easy when you actually use it for what it was designed for.[/quote]


I actually see no problem in using the deck as playback, but there are some coaveats. 1. Always plug in the firewire with the power off on computer and camera. 2. Always use the same kind of tape.

That said, it seems sort of counterproductive to use a $3500 camera as a $1500 deck and then if it fails you are totally out of business. Camera mechanisms are slower to respond than deck mechanisms and for shuttling tape they are just plain pokey. If you can afford it then buy a secondary deck, if not use the camera until you can make that investment.

Hope that helps,

Jan
 
Re: EVS - is just fine

Re: EVS - is just fine

Sinematik wrote:
First off, I don't think that the heads would be that sensitive to ruin with one single playback of some footage. I guess my DVX was missing the "Never ever actually use the Vcr mode that is provided with the camera, not even once, or the video heads will explode" sticker. Most likely, my camera has a factory defect.

Are you saying that you got a clogged head here? You got a blue screen? what happened? you did not identify what the problem was, it is hard for the group to identify the problem, and offer suggestions as to wht the solution might be. To hold EVS responsible is just not right.

>Now... I realize that my warantee is still good and that I could send it off to have it fixed. However, I didn't pay that kind of money for a DVX to have it crap out on me after 25 hours. I contacted Todd (big dog) at EVS and told him everything. I wanted to see if they would take my camera back for a new one and they could have it fixed since it is still under warantee...and since they kinda sold me a lemon. I thought that since they were an authorized Panasonic dealer that they would throw my camera in the defect pile for Panasonic to look at. No go.


Our warranty is 1 year parts and labor. It covers a long time. If you do not use your product and then one day run into a problem, then the one year warranty should get you through the 1st year of useage, just like if you use the product, the warranty period should get you through the 1st year. Assuming that there is a defect pile for Panasonic cameras is almost as rude as holding EVS responsible for swapping out your so called "lemon" camera.

If you do a search on lemon laws you will see that you would have to give the manufacturer opportunity to fix the camera several times over the course of 18 months before you could call it a lemon. (And BTW, these laws only pertain to Cars) Since this is the first time that it stopped working then it really does not contitiute being called a lemon.

We don't even know what the problem is, did the firewire stop working? Did the deck stop working all together? Did you have Dropouts? What is the problem?

>Just a warning for those who order from EVS. I hope you don't buy a lemon and I hope your ready to shoot a feature film the same month you order it just to make sure that it works properly or you'll get the same treatment I did.

In general, our policy states that if a product proves to be defective in 1 week from the time of purchase, we will exchange it, after that it is headed to warranty repair. So Rush and Cody were only doing what they are allowed to do by the manufacturer. Now this assumes that there is a defect, and not a burned out firewire port, head clog or something of this nature.

>Does anyone know if I contacted someone a Panasonic and tell them about my lemon, would they trade me for a new one or would they just tell me to have it repaired, too? Does the DVX come with a full warantee or a limited one?[/quote]

Our warranty covers parts and labor for any defective part. Last week I had the misfortune of speaking to a young woman who had put a large matt box on the front of her camera without any support rails and when the lens broke off she was very upset that it was not covered by warranty. This is not a defect but rather misdirected use. I suggest that you send your camera in for repair.

Go to:

http://www.panasonic.com/business/provideo/support/default.asp

Click on the service locator and put in your zip code. Up will come warranty service centers. Choose one and go from there. Sorry that you are having a problem, but there is nothing that Rush or Cody have done wrong in their support of you. And if there is a defect in the camera it will be covered by warranty service.

Best regards,

Jan
 
Re: EVS - not so good

"I've been very conservative about using it and it had only 25 total hours of use before it crapped out on me a few weeks ago. I used it one time - ONE TIME - to make a VHS dub of some footage when it died."

So you used it for 25 hours before it died, not after you used it once to make a dub. And as for "died", nine out of ten times it's nothing more than a head clog or some other easily solvable scenario that doesn't mean the camera is broken.

Every now and then I see one of these stories and I hear the word "foul" cried. I know Henry Posner of BH deals with it every day. And it's not his fault either. In fact it's no one fault.  I'll bet Rush doesn't like to hear it either. I have never dealt with EVS but have yet to hear that they cheated anyone, did something sly, or anything else. I also see as of yet, no one has written anything wrong about them here. http://www.resellerratings.com/seller4806.html or a few other places.

I think it a bit unfair to come to a public forum and cry foul, and hope for more than what anyone else would get. Guess what? Panasonic makes lots of these cameras, and every now and then they have a problem. No one in retail takes back a camera after 8 months or anywhere near it. your camera has a warranty.  And as of now we haven't determined if you really have a problem more than a head clog.  And it seems both Jan and Russ have responded timely and quite fairly to you. So take their advice and save the slandering for a time when it's deserved. Problems will happen with anything mechanical and if you've told the whole story, then fear not, everything is fixable. Problem is posts like this can unfairly hurt a company as folks mistakenly read the topic and think "Oh, EVS is bad" when in fact 99.9% of the time the problem is really in the customers understanding of warranties, return policies, etc,  and 9 out of ten times, the problem isn't really a problem at all. A post like this would not prevent me from looking into EVS as every company that does business has a few misunderstandings with customers but Russ has been responding from the get-go which tells me they are there for anyone with problems.
 
Re: EVS - not so good

Whatever we mean about this, the problem is still there. The customer wasn't happy with the resellers support.

A customer never ever can understand how irritating he can be but the support has to do what ever it needs to make the customer happy. It's about how you communicate with the customer. In this case I guess it is to late to try to explain that EVS just wanted to save time and money. The customer feels he didn't get the help he needed and he self become a problem for the reseller as well.

Panasonic will help you, don't worry.

Merry Christmas
 
Re: EVS - not so good

[quote author=LoveHD link=board=nws;num=1103687064;start=45#49 date=12/24/04 at 06:48:57]Whatever we mean about this, the problem is still there. The customer wasn't happy with the resellers support.

[/quote]

No, the customer wasn't happy because EVS didn't take back the camera after eight months and simply give him a new one or as he said it, throw it on the junk pile and give me a new camera. Somehow someone thought that just because you didn't use a camera some specified number of hours, that it meant you cold return it anytime you want. The seller did nothing wrong and honored their sales agreement to the tee. Folks think they can get away with murder these days. And others follow along with the jaded story with stones and clubs in hand and act as if the buyer deserves more than they paid for or their receipt clearly stated. EVS makes their policy very clear and to plead ignorance to it is about the customer, not EVS. No court in any state would give judgment to the buyer in this case. The buyer has no case and from what I see here, EVS did nothing wrong, plain and simple.

Clearly posted on EVS site in general, in the check out cart of the site, and in the receipt he got with the camera:

"Defective merchandise is only eligible for return within 15 days from date of receipt/delivery. Customer has the option of accepting either a direct exchange, suitable replacement (if item has become discontinued or unavailable), or in house credit. There are no refunds issued on any equipment type items. After 15 days, please refer to the manufacturer’s warranty."
 
Re: EVS - not so good

I've bought from EVS. No problems. Good people. Rush is informative and mellow to chat with.

I had a prob with my DVX (tape mechanism related actually) after about 10 months and 90 hours. Sent it in to Panasonic (in Illinois--Jan is the Burbank repair center taking DVXS yet?). Fixed under warranty, no hassle.

By the way, I happened to have bought my DVX from B&H. Because the camera had a problem, does that mean they screwed me? Of course not. And did Panasonic screw me? No. They fixed it as soon as I sent it in. Did the problem arise because of negligence or quality control issues by Panasonic? Maybe, but I doubt it. Cameras are complex machines, and things can go wrong without it being anyone's "fault". Luckily you still have some protection with the warranty. Use it.

My DVX has worked like a charm since it was repaired. And I do use it as a deck for digitizing. No problems. We're almost past two years of ownership now. Use it every week.

I know how alarming and aggravating it is to have a DVX malfunction, but your request for a new replacement DVX doesn't sound reasonable--not after 9 months. Send it in under warranty and move on.

Doesn't sound like EVS did you wrong here. Sounds like you are trying to "punish" their reputation here for not giving you a new camera. If I were in their shoes, I'd have done the same thing: refer you to a warranty repair. Totally normal and appropriate. Sorry Bud, it sounds like you were the one being unreasonable.
 
Re: EVS - not so good

I think Rush was in the right on this situation.. This is not Nordstrom that will take back merchandise on a whim. Besides 25hours of using it as a playback deck will most likely constitute a good cleaning of the heads anyways since it is not just moving the tape forward when recording. Getting a alternative way of recording is good to have. Panny is going to offer DV rack for this same reason. I have Dv Rack and I just recorded an hour of test footage using a old sony Mini dv camera without moving any tape since I didn't have one in the camera. It test recorded it in quicktime and AVI - no problems downloading into Avid Pro and I even used the output for sound into SONAR 4 and Wavelab to 24bit. output. The best way to record nowdays is straight to a harddrive on a laptop or get one of those LAIRD drives and do away with tape all together. If you must use tape then use it as a backup only. No digitizing needed and a lot faster time to get to post.
www.seriousmagic.com.  PS. EVS rocks- I bought my DVX camera there 2 weeks ago..no hassle or problems. I'm still learning how to use it so in the meantime I'm using the sony as source to learn DV rack.
 
Re: EVS - not so good

[quote author=Boomerang link=board=nws;num=1103687064;start=0#14 date=12/22/04 at 03:07:47]Hey everyone

Just wanted to post my latest experience with Barry's DVX book. I ordered my DVX book about a month ago. I followed all the steps and my footage is not at all 'film like'.I want to know what the return policy is.  ;D[/quote]

Frankly I think that book is useless. It's like a users manual with a few more bits of information. Don't waste your money on it. I was thinking about coming out with a DVX DVD that would show you what cinematography is with the camera.
 
Re: EVS - not so good

Gotta disagree with you on that one Walter. "Useless" is a pretty strong word. Maybe true for someone with over 15 years in the video industry, but probably not for the typical DVX user.

I agree the book won't teach you good cinematography (and I'm sure that was not the purpose). However, it's meant to be a more practical user guide (more practical in the sense that its written in easy to understand language with additional commentary that a user's guide would never have).

The book comes with a DVD that has sample techniques like slowmotion, getting shallow DOF, some tutorials on features, etc. I see it as a DVX100 crash course. I think it's very useful for someone new to videography that has this camera. I reference it all the time for clear direction when it comes to things like "should i use Squeeze, letterbox, or anamorphic for a given situation".
 
Re: EVS - not so good

[quote author=mickeloaf link=board=nws;num=1103687064;start=45#54 date=12/30/04 at 10:23:58]Yeah, i keep hoping this thread will die.   ;)[/quote]

I second that. And agree with Mickeloaf. To elaborate would be to rejuvenate this horrible thread.

( that said, if need be I WILL standup, as I have lots to say..:) )
 
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