EVS - not so good

Re: EVS - not so good

Hey Rush, I'm definately not picking sides or anything, but I did have a chance to read the email that shannon received before it got deleted. The only thing that I thought Shanon had a good point about was the text about using the DVX in VCR mode. The way the email was worded was a bit alarming and would probably push anyone's buttons in that situation. I'm sure that wasn't the intention, but it raised red flags for me after reading that.

Now, I agree that the DV Deck is a "mechanical" vs electronic part of the DVX, and that feature is going to be more prone to failure on any camcorder at a higher rate. So it does make sense that one would want to extend the life of that piece by minimizing the use. However, the impressoin that one gets from reading the email was that its common knowledge that using this feature will cause it to break. However, in his case it broke after 25 hours of use, which was purely a defect in the gear, and cannot be related to "over use" of that feature. Now, had he said it had over 300 hours on it and the deck finally crapped out, then I would agree, that it's useful life was near an end.

Anyway, I think the point I am trying to make is that DVXUser's don't have to panic anytime they want to capture a tape to HD, or even replay it back. It's just not the impression I have of this fine camera.
 
Re: EVS - not so good

[quote author=mickeloaf link=board=nws;num=1103687064;start=15#20 date=12/22/04 at 11:06:12]Hey Rush,  I'm definately not picking sides or anything, but I did have a chance to read the email that shannon received before it got deleted.  The only thing that I thought Shanon had a good point about was the text about using the DVX in VCR mode.  The way the email was worded was a bit alarming and would probably push anyone's buttons in that situation. I'm sure that wasn't the intention, but it raised red flags for me after reading that.  
[/quote]
You are right Mike, it was never my intention to be alarming or raise red flags, except for reminding Shannon that VCR mode issues are 2 out of every 3 complaints I get about the DVX (Timecode Errors, Cylinder Lock Warnings, and Tape Not Recognized), and therefore it will be impossible for him to get a brand new camera from EVS based on that complaint. Panasonic might treat it as a lemon and give him a new one, but as far as I was concerned, it was a known issue, to be avoided by the user at all costs, that's all. In fact, the tape mechanism is the only thing on the entire DVX unit only warranted for only 90 days rather than a whole year, which is another reason I tell my customers not to use the camera as a deck. I always figured that the reason behind that is because that is the only Internal portion of the camera that the consumer interacts with daily, and can mess up easily by using bad tapes, not cleaning properly, or introducing dust. So if Panny is only warranting their tape drive for 90 days but the rest of the camera for a year, that should say something about how sensitive that part of the unit is.

I hope that Jan gives some feedback, because when it comes to why all these issues take place, that is her field.
 
Re: EVS - not so good

[quote author=dv-davie link=board=nws;num=1103687064;start=15#19 date=12/22/04 at 10:21:09]Hey shannon, I'm not gonna chastize you or anything, because I think we all make mistakes and have lapses in judgment. I would like to comfort you, however, in the fact that Rush is one of us. He's the good guy and I think that this frustrating situation has caused you lose sight of that. We are lucky to have a guy like him on our side, cause all the other dealers are scum-sucking bottom dwellers that, if given the chance, WILL take you for everything you have, and they won't even try to explain themselves for you in a forum... Obviously Rush does not need anyone to defend him, because he has already built himself a solid reputation, and as a DVX community we are all for the most part indebted to EVS for such unrealistically oustanding service. My hope is that you will get your camera fixed:P, continue to make movies :D, and inform us all of your progress ;). By no means should you take offense at our allegence with EVS and drop out of DVXuser, though. Anyway, that's my two cents worth, oh and Rush, you rock man![/quote]
Thank you sir, I am always here for all you guys, even while editing with a Producer as we speak... ;)
 
Re: EVS - not so good

[quote author=Taylor_Moore link=board=nws;num=1103687064;start=15#18 date=12/22/04 at 09:22:22]As usual Rush, you have done an excellent job clearly explaining your position. I have been extremely happy with Rush and EVS and my transactions with them.

The problem is to be addressed by Pany.

[/quote]
Thanks Taylor. I love your new place, great pics. ;D
 
Re: EVS - not so good

EVS rocks the block.. be happy you bought from EVS cause almost any other place you would be screwed.. and not get the explanation that Rush has offered.
 
Re: EVS - not so good

Hey Rush, thanks for your feedback and excellent attitude in all of this by the way. Wow, I did not know that the DVX deck was only warranted for 90 days, that changes everything of course. This is a complete suprise to me as I was under the impression that the entire DVX had a 1 year guarantee. Those extra extended warranties might start to make sense now, if they cover the deck. I'm sure going to invest in one of those DV Decks as soon as possible (or a FireStore FS-4 ;D ) as I'm sure it would be about the same price as the costly Deck repair.
 
Re: EVS - not so good

You're all missing the point.

Read the first post.

This guy tried to jam a VHS tape into his DVX.

Not even a VHS-C!

I'm sure THAT's not recommended by Jan.
 
Re: EVS - not so good

[quote author=mickeloaf link=board=nws;num=1103687064;start=15#26 date=12/22/04 at 16:52:31]Hey Rush, thanks for your feedback and excellent attitude in all of this by the way.  Wow, I did not know that the DVX deck was only warranted for 90 days, that changes everything of course.  This is a complete suprise to me as I was under the impression that the entire DVX had a 1 year guarantee.  Those extra extended warranties might start to make sense now, if they cover the deck.  I'm sure going to invest in one of those DV Decks as soon as possible (or a FireStore FS-4  ;D ) as I'm sure it would be about the same price as the costly Deck repair.[/quote]
My pleasure Mike, that is what I am here for. My attitude comes from the heart. I was a video/photo consumer for 11 years before I got into sales, so the last thing I want is to sell someone a headache, or not inform them of known issues. I always wished the NY sales reps would do that for me when I used to buy from them, but they never did. They just wanted a list of items to close the order and move onto the next guy. I guess that left an indelible mark on me, and I just don't want to be like that, because I knew what it felt like to be on the other end, when the rep didn't care if he sold me the wrong size filter or a crappy tripod >:(. The best fubar was when they sent me an order I never placed, but had just requested as a quote, and then wouldn't refund my shipping or pay for shipping back to them :(... That's when I realized how important it is to only give my Credit Card to people I trust.

I also encounter that nonempathetic attitude every time I present a problem to my cable company, or my phone company, or the DMV, etc. The last thing I want to do is perpetuate callousness prevalent in some parts of our society. :)
 
Re: EVS - not so good

if only my heart could run wild it would run the gamut of love.
 
Re: EVS - not so good

Jarred Hmm..  I say things like that when I drink too much holiday cheer!  Are you having a party and not inviting us?

P.S. I am so proud of my 4-Stars now... :D
 
Re: EVS - not so good

[quote author=dv-davie link=board=nws;num=1103687064;start=15#19 date=12/22/04 at 10:21:09]By no means should you take offense at our allegence with EVS and drop out of DVXuser, though.[/quote]
Shannon, please by no means should you leave DVXuser, or EVS. I hold no grudge, and I want you to come back to EVS if you like.
 
Re: EVS - not so good

ha ha Mike... dont know where that came from, just got inspired. Have a few stars for the road :)
 
Re: EVS - not so good

thank rush he likes you :) well we all do. Merry Christmas!
 
Re: EVS - not so good

Golly Gee Whiz Guys, I'm speechless. I would like thank my wife who has been almost understanding while I spend countless hours on this board, and my dog Ginger who sits at my feet keeping them warm, and my producer, and .... oh got carried away.. :D
 
Re: EVS - not so good

Guys, My intention here is not to slander EVS or Rush necessarily. I am merely posting the problem that occured with my camera and the actions that I took. How are others suppose to know what to do in a similiar situation? Are there lemon laws out there that apply? I needed some kind of direction to go with it and the first thing I hear is I'm sorry we can't do anything for you. This is where my frustration lies. Thank you Rush for letting me know that you guys would send it in for repair for me, but I found a place close in my area that is an authorized repair shop. This info was not made clear to me when I contacted you. After reading your emails and talking to Todd I was like, What the heck am I suppose to do? I have no more info about getting my camera fixed than before I talked with you guys.

As far as getting a brand new camera, I didn't expect you guys to eat the cost. I thought that maybe you guys would give me a number or a contact at Panny. I work for a well-known industrial supply company that resells almost 500,000 products. We have a no questions asked, no red tape policy when it comes to returns. We make the manufacturers foot the bill for their defective products and we've been in business for over 100 years. That's the way it works if you push hard enough. Companies like Panasonic (who order from us quite a bit) budget in things like defects into any given product line.

I'm not one of these kinds of people who stir up drama for the heck of it. However, Panasonic needs to hear from dealers like you about factory defects and the flack you get from customers like me. Who knows... maybe they'll recall some in the future or redesign the DVX heads to be a little more robust if they hear enough complaints about flawed cameras. Problems like this need to be posted and you were just the start of the dissatisfied customer process, don't take it personally. I think that some people forgot how to be customers. When something like this occurs, don't bend over and accept no as the final answer. You keep following a trail until you hear the answer that satifies your complaint.

I guess I'm playing the part of Ebeneezer in this years holiday production

:(

-sinematik


Oh... and as for the personal attacks against me:

John_Q_Public, Being a car salesman is not something that you share with people or should be proud of. How many people did you rip off? See the movie "Suckers" if you want to know what kind of person John is.
 
Re: EVS - not so good

Sinematik-

Again, good luck with the repair. I thought it was notable that you did post. concerned, and candid-- in the first place. It is not easy telling the internet world things didn't quite go right for you. Hope we see you again!!!!!!

-pooh
 
Re: EVS - not so good

Appalling, truly appalling. After stumbling upon this discussion about a particular customer’s experience with EVS and the problems he/she faced, I was taken aback by the unprofessional and demeaning nature of the responses. As for your situation Sinematik, I can sympathize because I know the frustration in dealing with “lemon” products.
First, I would like to address the “netiquettes” issue. The emails that were sent between EVS’s representative, Rush, and Sinematik are not to be censored. These emails were not sent between to private parties. Rush is acting as a spokesperson or extension of EVS therefore making these emails a business-to-customer transaction. Putting this information entirely under the scope of public knowledge. Unless these emails contained non-business related subject matter they should be placed back on the forum. I do not believe saying Sinematiks’ actions as a customer were ignorant and asinine qualify as proper “netiquettes” either. Mr. Car Salesman I would not expect you to understand this situation and its nature. Your shear lack of respect for a paying customer puts you at a disabling bias.
This brings me to my next point. Lets talk about a customer’s duty. Some say that Sinematik is expecting too much as a customer… This is ridiculous. Even though Sinematik had this camera for 9 months, he obviously did not have the time or opportunity to “film” as much as some others. The camera’s life is defined by the amount of hours it has been used not by how long ago it was purchased. The 9 months is irrelevant. This camera only worked for roughly 1 day, 25 hours. I don’t think even Rush can say this is a normal occurrence in such a high-end camera. If that is the case, Sinematik you should have bought an old VHS video-recorder. This camera is a lemon and should be replaced. It is not at all like a truck repair, as suggested in Rush’s loose fitting analogy. A lemon does not function under normal warranty rules. It is not as if the tape housing will not close or a button is not working properly. The main function of the camera does not work after an incredibly short period of time. This is not a normal repair for a camera. Do not treat it as such. Sinematik has a valid point in demanding a replacement for his defective camera. If the only help from Rush is to get it fixed and don’t use it as a VCR again that disappointing. If you are not 100% satisfied as a customer, Sinematik, EVS has failed, and they should do anything they can to appease you. Do not settle for less or get shoved to the side by mediocre customer service.
The next issue that disgusted me in this situation is the attitude that Rush has towards a paying customer. Rush you should really think about what you write in emails before you send them. Furthermore, ponder your attitude towards a customer with a problem. We should all remember the old quote “The customer is always right,” when dealing with problems such as this. I’m not sure what kind of company EVS is when dealing with refunds and things of that nature, but obviously not to great. Just a suggestion for the future, Rush, if someone comes to you with a defective camera, assuming it can be repaired to factory specifications. Give that person a new camera and personally send the defective one to be repaired. Then resell the repaired one at a lower refurbished price. If the camera is a “lemon” you would not absorb the cost of the camera, Panasonic would because it is a manufacturing error. In this situation you sustain your happy customer from the original sale and gain another customer with the resale of the refurbished one. But dealing with it the way you have is entirely wrong. By using finger pointing in emails and psuedo-Socratic methods of logical contradictions you have argued with your customer to the point of no return. I am 100% positive that Sinematik will not do business with EVS again do to the unhelpful guidance of your responses. Furthermore, anyone that Sinematik talks to about this situation and the horrible customer service would not be inclined to do business with EVS either. The worst loss of a company is not a short-run financial inconvenience; it’s the loss of customer loyalty and future business created by these customers. Rush just out of curiosity did you tell Sinematik about this 90 day warranty on the heads before you sold him/her the camera or is this the first time this has been mentioned. Maybe you should think about the well being of your customers before you think about the well being of your commission. Your treatment of this situation just seems counter-intuitive to me. Very unprofessional.
Sinematik I hope something positive comes from this situation in regards to your camera. As a businessperson, I hang my head in shame when I hear of situations like this. Customers should be treated as if they sign the checks of the workers. Not blamed for the problems that are caused by manufacturing defects
 
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