C200: EVF only shoulder rig.

I've never used a shoulder rig where the camera wasn't positioned close to your shoulder (with a counterweight) or in some cases actually sitting on your shoulder, which would make the EVF inaccessible. The EVF on the C200 is great, but only for handheld and sticks. You'd need a 3rd party EVF or a loupe for the LCD, which you'd need to relocate to make work.
 
R_Marvin said:
The only thing I can think of that might accomplish this is something like the offset shoulder rig offered by Shape:

http://www.shapewlb.com/en/product/...c200-offset-rig_1010.aspx?id_page_parent=1131

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1357841-REG/shape_c200_of_canon_c200_offset_rig.html

It's a bit pricey and keep in mind you'll be extending your arms outward to support it leading to quicker fatigue.
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That would be quite awful as far as balance, I would rather just cradle the C200. I've been doing that a bit lately and it's not bad as long as you are following a subject or moving a bit. Not good for rock steady establishing shots though. Shoulder mount has to be balanced fore and aft or you're just fighting it the whole time.
 
puredrifting said:
That would be quite awful as far as balance, I would rather just cradle the C200. I've been doing that a bit lately and it's not bad as long as you are following a subject or moving a bit. Not good for rock steady establishing shots though. Shoulder mount has to be balanced fore and aft or you're just fighting it the whole time.
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Yeah it's always going to want to tip to the left. I've considered trying to rig up a dual sided shoulder mount. So it is balanced side to side. However, I'm not sure how easy it would be to steady it while walking. And I can't exactly find anything designed for this.
 
Stills2HDConvert said:
Does anyone have a picture of their shoulder rig where they're using the EVF only on their C200 rather than the LCD?
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I’ll try and take a picture soon but things are pretty busy at the moment.

Anyway, I use the Rhino Rig with my C300 II and it’s amazing.

It doesn’t require any weights to work and it is so secure I can literally take both hands off of the rig and camera and it will securely rest on my shoulder and stomach.

How does it do this?

The way it works is it uses a very customizable shoulder mount that contours to your personal shoulder shape. It’s very comfortable once you get the fit right (which takes a while the first time but you only have to do it once.

Another great thing is where your hands are. It uses totally customizable extension arms which I use in their longest position, which lets my arms rest in a very comfortable position that is closer to the height of my waist than the height of my shoulders.

It also packs small and, because it doesn’t require a counterweight, is pretty lightweight.

The only downside to this awesome system is that Rhino (the Slider people) have discontinued it! However, if you find it on eBay or something, they said they would honor the lifetime warranty (I got mine on eBay for ~$200).
 
brettsherman said:
Yeah it's always going to want to tip to the left. I've considered trying to rig up a dual sided shoulder mount. So it is balanced side to side. However, I'm not sure how easy it would be to steady it while walking. And I can't exactly find anything designed for this.
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Left/right balance would be the least of your worries with this type of rig.

The real problem is that all the weight is in front of you being supported by your arms, rather than balanced on your shoulder, so you'll be working very hard and become fatigued very quickly. A rig like this doesn't really do much more than add an extra point of contact.

This is one of the big problems with the Cx00's short, tall designs (and the Red's, too). The only real solution for a shoulder-mount that both adds stability and reduces fatigue is to use an external EVF and position the camera directly over your shoulder ENG style.
 
And people scoffed when I said I was wishing for a miniature C700 form factor for the C200 before it came out and before we knew it would just be more of the same old. The CXXX form factor is great for cradling, gimbals and adequate for tripod shooting. But it completely sucks for shoulder mounted handheld documentary style shooting. And yes, I shot with the RED Weapon for a month and it's the same story except it's shoebox form factor is even worse than my C200 for cradling. I wonder if in the minds of camera designers, with the popularity of gimbals, if they just don't care about building shoulder mounted cams as much anymore? Personally, I am begining to kind of dislike gimbals, they make all of the footage look the same, no personality as far as the movement, it's all kind of robotic looking. I am shooting two documentaries and much prefer to either cradle or shoulder mount, there are a million things you can do with that subtle movement that you really cannot get with a gimbal.
 
Unless you are shooting and walking at the same time the majority of the time a Monopod is a better solution for handheld. I pretty much gave up on the shoulder rig. It turns into a giant heavy expensive mess for a setup I rarely need. (shooting while walking). If I do have to get a walk and talk then I'll pull out a gimbal and the GH5 and get much better results. I get Doco shooters move faster and we all have unique needs but I would rather strip the camera down and make it as light as posable or use a diffrent camera.
 
deltoidjohn said:
Left/right balance would be the least of your worries with this type of rig.

The real problem is that all the weight is in front of you being supported by your arms, rather than balanced on your shoulder, so you'll be working very hard and become fatigued very quickly. A rig like this doesn't really do much more than add an extra point of contact.

This is one of the big problems with the Cx00's short, tall designs (and the Red's, too). The only real solution for a shoulder-mount that both adds stability and reduces fatigue is to use an external EVF and position the camera directly over your shoulder ENG style.
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I agree left right not the big issue. Getting it to balance is the issue to solve. It can be done with long rods, a 15mm rod offset arm to get the evf in the right spot for your eye and counterbalancing it with weights and or big block batterries. The adding of weight is a plus as too light cameras lose the feel of good camera moment as well as eliminating the jiggle that light cameras give. Here's link to the offset you'll need to get it started : https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01BQ4SN2...t=&hvlocphy=9022887&hvtargid=pla-393308456396
 
Erik Naso said:
... I would rather strip the camera down and make it as light as posable or use a diffrent camera.
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I've been doing both lately, the C200, no handle, and the Canon 17-55 2.8, cradled, is a great HH documentary option. And I agree about the gimbal too, I just don't have a 4K mirrorless for my Zhiyun Crane yet, only the 80D, which actually works well on it, it's just 1080 and my films are being shot with the C200 as A camera in Cinema RAW Light so 1080 is a drag. I have been leaning toward the lovely colors of the Fujifilm XT-2 but there are some other surprises coming too that could be great small gimbal options. I hate C200 and above sized cameras on gimbals, PITA to setup and balance and not portable for transport.

I still like shoulder mounted though for certain things like interviews and walk and talks.
 
Erik Naso said:
Unless you are shooting and walking at the same time the majority of the time a Monopod is a better solution for handheld. I pretty much gave up on the shoulder rig. It turns into a giant heavy expensive mess for a setup I rarely need. (shooting while walking). If I do have to get a walk and talk then I'll pull out a gimbal and the GH5 and get much better results. I get Doco shooters move faster and we all have unique needs but I would rather strip the camera down and make it as light as posable or use a diffrent camera.
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Even though I'm really happy with my Rhino Rig's handling of the C300 Mark II, I agree with the idea that monopods and gimbals often are better at each thing I use the shoulder rig for (walking or standing still). The Rhino Rig shines when you just don't have the time or resources to switch back and forth. That being said, I bring all 3 to every shoot in my Pelican 1615.
 
Erik Naso said:
. . .I would rather strip the camera down and make it as light as posable . . .
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With the C200 my philosophy exactly.

A few weeks back I was walking around Balboa park in San Diego and curious to see if anyone noticed me shooting, I shot rather close to some people but no one took heed of my presence. I'm testing as I like being incognito especially in documentary situations, having worked the last 15 years primarily as a photojournalist.

I was equipped with a Peak Design everyday messenger bag which held the C200, Sigma 24-105 Art lens, and I mounted a cold shoe on top the camera using a Rode VideoMic Pro for audio. Also included was my MeFoto carbon fiber traveler tripod which can be held by the messenger bag when not in use. I can quickly release the tripod when needed and set it up, pull out and mount the C200 in a matter of seconds. This getup is light and easy to take anywhere.
 
Erik Naso said:
Unless you are shooting and walking at the same time the majority of the time a Monopod is a better solution for handheld. I pretty much gave up on the shoulder rig.
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Monopods offer a very different aesthetic to handheld or shoulder mounted. With a shoulder mount you can sway back and forth and introduce really natural motion to your shots, or simulate a slider shot, or maintain ideal framing when shooting dirty dialogue scenes/IVs, or pull a nice perspective reveal, etc. With a monopod, you are still locked in one spot. Great for some things, but a totally different solution to a proper shoulder rig.

mico said:
I agree left right not the big issue. Getting it to balance is the issue to solve. It can be done with long rods, a 15mm rod offset arm to get the evf in the right spot for your eye and counterbalancing it with weights and or big block batterries.
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The problem is that to balance it properly in that way, you need the weight distributed equally on both sides of the fulcrum (your shoulder). So that means you're going to need to have the weight sitting up to a foot behind you - more if you're using proper cinema lenses, especially zooms. A rig that big becomes not only cumbersome - which defeats the whole point of going handheld - but also a liability.


One solution I haven't seen mentioned yet is a cine-saddle. I've used one with the C300 and, particularly with it's ridiculously high profile LCD screen, it ends up at a comfortable height for viewing when you wear the saddle and cradle the camera in front of your chest. I'm fairly tall though, and those shorter shooters might struggle to work this way.
 
deltoidjohn said:
With a shoulder mount you can sway back and forth and introduce really natural motion to your shots, or simulate a slider shot, or maintain ideal framing when shooting dirty dialogue scenes/IVs, or pull a nice perspective reveal, etc. With a monopod, you are still locked in one spot.
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This isn't quite true. There are aesthetic differences (and operating differences), but a video monopod with a tensionable ball head provides a wide range of very stable movement. My preference is the Sirui P-326S because it is small and light and all the movement tensions can be adjusted.
 
deltoidjohn said:
...it ends up at a comfortable height for viewing when you wear the saddle and cradle the camera in front of your chest. I'm fairly tall though, and those shorter shooters might struggle to work this way.
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I've used a CineSaddle before but, on the ground or on car hoods. I can't quite picture what this would look like. You don't have a picture of you or someone else using it in this way, do you John? I am intrigued. How would you wear the saddle?
 
mikemilton said:
This isn't quite true. There are aesthetic differences (and operating differences), but a video monopod with a tensionable ball head provides a wide range of very stable movement. My preference is the Sirui P-326S because it is small and light and all the movement tensions can be adjusted.
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I've tried it several times but I am not a big fan of the monopod. It just feels like a substandard tripod to me, especially with longer lenses. I did a BTS shoot on Prison Break last year in Africa, having to run all over a working set, constantly moving to stay out of director and actor sight lines and not block the camera ops and the monopod thing was a PITA, I ended up just alternating between tripod and shoulder mounted.
 
puredrifting said:
I've used a CineSaddle before but, on the ground or on car hoods. I can't quite picture what this would look like. You don't have a picture of you or someone else using it in this way, do you John? I am intrigued. How would you wear the saddle?
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You put the strap over your shoulder the way you'd wear a messenger bag. I've seen people put the strap over both shoulders. Depending on how tight the strap is, body type, preference etc., the bag ends up around your ribs/stomach/waist and you can move it completely from the side to more front on. I briefly worked on a TV drama recently and the DP shot like this a lot of the time.
 
mikemilton said:
This isn't quite true. There are aesthetic differences (and operating differences), but a video monopod with a tensionable ball head provides a wide range of very stable movement. My preference is the Sirui P-326S because it is small and light and all the movement tensions can be adjusted.
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I think you misunderstood me when I said a monopod is "locked in one spot"

A monopod with a good head can provide a nice range of stable movement, allowing for pans and tilts, but the camera must still essentially stay locked in the same position - ie directly above wherever the monopod foot is planted. It's essentially the same as a tripod in terms of the camera movements you can make, but obviously much faster to move and setup.

With handheld/shouldermounted, you can move the camera left, right, forward, backward, up or down, (or any combination of these simultaneously), in addition to the panning or tilting that a tripod/monopod is limited to. Of course, the quality and aesthetic of these moves is largely dependent on the skill of the operator and the balance of the rig - hence my initial comments about why a balanced rig is so important.
 
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