Erased - feature trailer

Thanks for the process smelni. I don't have combustion, but I'll see if I can pull that off in FCP. I'll have to look into how to do a color channel remap. I don't really know what that is.

I was able to get the same basic look you had in the still frame you cc'd (not exactly tho), but I can't output it that way. Any idea why it won't export correctly, even after re-rendering everything?
 
Missed the point completely my friend....

"But thanks for making your first post on this entire forum a repeat of the same thing everyone else on this thread has already said about my trailer and not offer any truly helpful advice of your own. Nice to know you really want to participate."

-nuff said.
 
Whatever you say mrcbella...


Smelni, thanks for your help! I've attempted your process with FCP. I can't set an opacity level to an effect directly so here's what I did.

CC'd the original clip on V1.
Duplicated CC'd original clip from V1 to V2.
Applied Channel Swap filter to V2 and set Blue from Green (fyi I tried Green from Blue because I wasn't sure. I thought Blue from Green looks better).
Set opacity of clip on V2 to 35%.
Duplicated CC'd original clip from V1 to V3.
Added Gaussian Blur to V3 and set to 1.5.
Set opacity of V3 to 35%.
Set Composite mode of V2 and V3 to Soft Light.

In FCP I notice a pretty big difference. Contrast is higher, the darker areas are darker and the whites are higher. I even have to bring down the white level because it warns me that it's no longer broadcast safe. The blues have more green in them, so the sky color changes quite a bit. The trees and brush are a deeper green now.

I tried exporting so you can see the results, but I still can't get that to work right. I do see a slight difference with exporting a Quicktime movie, but it's only very slight and not the big difference I see in FCP, just like the images I posted above. I get the better results with exporting using Compressor, but it still looks different in FCP. Anyone have any ideas why the exporting isn't working right the way it should?

Here are pics from my FCP export using Compressor (the top is the original, the bottom is with the smelni process):

testorig2.jpg


testmod2.jpg
 
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I forgot to mention that I did add the Soft Light composite mode to V2 and V3 in my post above... I edited the post so it's now correct.

I've re-edited the trailer and applied this method to it. I have 3 versions with different filters.

Version 1: Just my color correction, similar to the previous version
Version 2: Added smelni's process to the entire trailer
Version 3: Added smelni's process only to non-title/graphics and non-day-for-night shots.

They can be found here. edit: fyi, I removed the trailer from the site until I have the new one ready and finished with the correct coloring.

I've used some of the recommendations made here and others I did not. Anything I thought was a valid point I changed. Certain things that may have been valid points I still may have opted to not change for various reasons including I liked it the way it was, others liked it, or the changes that could be made were no better or worse, etc.

I suspect some of you will think I didn't change enough in the trailer so I'm curious to see the reactions. I'm not necessarily done with changes yet, just seeing how the progress is so far. Let me know what you think of the shot changes, pacing, filter usage/color correction, title changes, etc.

I'll leave them up for only a few days, probably until the end of the week. Thanks for the help and input everyone.
 
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I see almost no difference in your outputs - this is definitely not the results of the technique I described
 
smelni said:
I see almost no difference in your outputs - this is definitely not the results of the technique I described
Click to expand...

The difference is showing up only slightly in these outputs. I don't know why. The difference is much more apparent in FCP, but aas soon as I output to a Quicktime movie you can hardly tell. Any idea why?
 
smelni said:
you arent outputting the right footage
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what I can do different. I made the change to the clips in the sequence. Selected the sequence in the bin. Choose File/Export/Quicktime Movie or File/Export/Using Compressor and this is what I get.

If you look closely you will see a difference in the different versions. The one that has your process added to it has slightly deeper shadows, slightly brighter highlights, and the colors are a little different. It's just a bigger difference in FCP.
 
flmmkr, what mrcbella said is true. He took the words right out of my mouth. The lighting, composition, and art direction are really bad. It looks like you didn't use any lighting for indoor scenes. The outdoor shots were overexposed, and the locations bland and uninspiring.

You should have done a few shorts first before jumping to feature length. I have never meet a filmmaker here (my country) that have never done at least a few shorts before jumping to feature length. Nothing wrong with gaining experience on smaller projects first.

Since you didn't and you invested so much emotion and energy into this project your reaction to criticism is to be expected. If you have done at least a few shorts, you will probably be less defensive about it.

Believe me when I say I understand your feelings perfectly. I was in your placed once a few years ago when I just did my first short film. It wasn't very good but it was the best a student in the course has produced so far and that boost my ego and confidence considerably. I thought I was ready for the jump to feature length. I was even working on a treatment.

I then entered a filmmaking reality show called 'Digital Generation'. I thought I had something going on, shot the thing, edited it, and then was called back a week later for the taping of my judging session.

The two judges (notable industry people) were notorious and brutal. My work and I were ripped apart on national TV no less. I was practically shaking and almost crying when the taping ended. I went home straight (others stay to talk with the judges), my enthusiasm for filmmaking pretty much dead that moment, and I hated the judges. I thought they were the meanest people alive.

For a while, I defended my second short film every single oppurtunity, justifying my decisions, not really listening to criticism much like what you are doing now. I thought it was the right thing to do. It was my baby afterall. It sure pissed and annoyed the hell out of a lot of people. They were trying to help, to make me a better filmmaker but all I care was defending my 'baby' and my ego, not willing to listen to reason.

When I finally saw it on TV (a few months later), I really wanted to crawl into a hole. It was really bad. Watching it again for the first time after a few months really woke me up. It was a bad work period. Embarassing really. I never could bring myself to watch it again after that eventhough I have a copy of it. What the two judges said were true. They were brutal but they were honest.

I have only done one short film and thought I knew everything when in fact I know nothing. Prior to the competition, I thought I could make the jump to feature length. After the competition, I realized I should practise more. Nothing wrong with doing short films. You will want your feature length debut to be remembered as being good. A bad feature length debut could effectively kill your career.

Today I have learned to be humble and to take criticism, good or bad, to be a better listener, not needing to defend every single comment I get. It has made me a much better filmmaker. I still do not like one of the judges very much but the experience has been a great wake up call.

This should be a wake up call to you too. Do know that your next project will be much better because of our brutal honesty.
 
Vincent, my reaction to mrcbella was because all he did was repeat what others had already said. He didn't offer any new input on the matter that was different than what was already said. What he said wasn't really constructive because it didn't offer any new advice. "Sucks" is a rude term when referring to someone hard work and is not constructive. I would never tell someone their work "sucks". I would tell them it was a good effort, tell them what was good about it, then tell them what wasn't good about it. That can all be done much better than just saying it "sucks". I didn't say he was wrong or that I wasn't listening, just that his post was pointless because it had already been said.

How many times do I have to say I'm making changes based on the comments that have been made here? I'm listening to all the "constructive criticism" and taking it to heart. Do I have to sound like a broken record? Am I really being overly defensive when I'm simply explaining why I did things the way I did? I'm not saying I'm right or that any of you are wrong, just giving my reasons. My reasons may not be good enough, or maybe they are, but I'm learning from all of them and making changes to the current project where I can. Where someone only gave non-constructive criticism I called them on it and I think that's fair. It's not right to just say something sucks in an environment like this and not explain why or give suggestions. If that happens I'm going to say something. Sorry if it offends some of you or makes you think I'm not listening or that I'm close-minded, that's not the case. If you go back and read through the thread again you will see there's plenty of times where I asked for further clarification on points that were made, discussed why I did something and if I was going to make a change to it or not (i.e. the white walls and that I was going to take that shot out of the trailer), or asked for help.

FYI, just so you all know, the plain walls were scripted and may have been a bad choice, maybe not, but those that have seen the entire movie or worked on the movie have not made a comment about it, not even one, but they've commented about other things. I agree that I should leave that shot out of the trailer though because the reasoning for it doesn't come across in the trailer. Same goes for crossing the line in the doorway (another place in the movie by accident is more of an issue for me). Either way, I agree with those comments, and probably will never have plain white walls in another film again and probably won't cross the line again.

I know the usual method is for a filmmaker to start out with shorts. I chose to start out with a feature and I'm glad I did. I think I learned more from making this feature than I would have from a bunch of shorts over a longer period of time. That was my choice and I don't regret it. Just so you're aware, and as I've already said previously (again repeating myself), my next two projects are shorts for SpyFest, mainly to help me build a reel faster. One I am only DP'ing and editing, the other I'm writing, directing, editing.

To all, thanks for the input and the help with making this better. I hope your "constructive" criticism will continue.
 
flmmkr said:
and probably won't cross the line again.
Click to expand...

Crossing the line is fine as long as you take the viewer with you as you do it. In other words, if the camera moves to the other side of the line in a dolly shot or steadicam move, you are taking the viewer there rather than just a cut to the other side of the line which is totally disorienting for the viewer.
 
I think some people here needs to get down from their high horse. This guy is trying hard to learn and improve, there's no need to walk all over him.
 
This is enough...... I've looked over this tread for a while and I'm sick of filmmkr comebacks to every single comment that’s said about this video he shot. I call it a video because it it would be degrading to even call this a feature "film". I'll give you an A for effort and I congratulate you for completing a project like this from start to finish. But come on, are you serious? I know this was low-budget, but better composition and interesting shots don't cost money........they take skill..... and I see no skill in this project. Mrcbella was complete right to everything he said. I'm not saying with time and practice that you couldn't be a decent filmmaker. But stop DEFENDING THIS!!!! It is what it is, and it is crap. There is no artistic feeling to your video and that’s what film making is about. I've been apart of many productions from low-budget to multi-million dollar features and the only different between them is Actors/Props/Locations/Equipment/Crew. You were using a HVX, it's not a bad camera and I've seen people work magic with it. It just seemed like you wasted a lot of valuable time that could be been used to practice and test your creative side. YOU CAN'T BE A DIRECTOR IN THIS INDUSTRY IF YOU CAN"T BE CREATIVE. Maybe being a electrician/grip/gaffer, maybe something along those lines would be better for you. I feel this tread should be ERASED!!!!!! Off to the set of "Kids in America"
 
Trustno1.4life said:
This is enough...... I've looked over this tread for a while and I'm sick of filmmkr comebacks to every single comment that’s said about this video he shot. I call it a video because it it would be degrading to even call this a feature "film". I'll give you an A for effort and I congratulate you for completing a project like this from start to finish. But come on, are you serious? I know this was low-budget, but better composition and interesting shots don't cost money........they take skill..... and I see no skill in this project. Mrcbella was complete right to everything he said. I'm not saying with time and practice that you couldn't be a decent filmmaker. But stop DEFENDING THIS!!!! It is what it is, and it is crap. There is no artistic feeling to your video and that’s what film making is about. I've been apart of many productions from low-budget to multi-million dollar features and the only different between them is Actors/Props/Locations/Equipment/Crew. You were using a HVX, it's not a bad camera and I've seen people work magic with it. It just seemed like you wasted a lot of valuable time that could be been used to practice and test your creative side. YOU CAN'T BE A DIRECTOR IN THIS INDUSTRY IF YOU CAN"T BE CREATIVE. Maybe being a electrician/grip/gaffer, maybe something along those lines would be better for you. I feel this tread should be ERASED!!!!!! Off to the set of "Kids in America"
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What it is about this thread that attracts all the a**holes? What's the difference between this guy making a short and asking for comments and making a feature films and asking for comments? You saw ONE MINUTE out of his entire film and already you think you can pass judgement on the entire thing? I don't see him being defensive about his works; READ the thread, the guy has already made improvement based on the inputs of many people here. Coming in and saying that his entire project sucked beyond repair and that he wasted his time is just being rude. And congratulation on using your very first post to accomplish this.

I'm getting sick of this attitude that you HAVE to make short films before you can jump into a feature. Making a short is practicing your skill, making a feature is also practicing your skill. Here is someone who's trying to learn and improve for the future and doesn't need people like you tell him that he sucks. Did YOU get everything right on your first feature? Or did you also depend on the input of your peers in order to learn from your mistakes and make better film?

Trustno1.4life said:
Maybe being a electrician/grip/gaffer, maybe something along those lines would be better for you. I feel this tread should be ERASED!!!!!!
Click to expand...
I feel like this comment needs to be erased.
 
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I really don't know what the deal is with some of you people. Someone comes here to show their first work and get feedback and you have nothing else to say but bash. You really know how to destroy someone's confidence... both in their ability to make something but especially in the legitimacy and usefulness of this DVXuser forum. I hope you get the same treatment with your next project because you really deserve it. My personal confidence isn't broken but someone else you may treat this way might be. I only question if I should bother coming here anymore and I think the mods should really think about banning some of you for your attitude and the way you treat others here. To those that helped me: Thank you and good luck with your own projects.
 
Because, Mike. People rent movies to watch a movie. The picture you made does not look like a movie. Far more drama needs to be added to the pic and it's fairly easy to do so with lighting and shot framing. I almost never have a full on framed shot of an actor anymore in my stuff. I used to frame people like it was a family portrait or something.

Guess what? When i did my first short, which was shot on 35mm incidentally at a cost of over $40K, I was told almost the exact same things you are being told even though the medium is different. People thought it was dull and uninteresting mainly due to my shot composition.

Congratulations. Shooting a feature is a big deal and you will learn from this. Don't be discouraged.

I was in your place not too long ago.
 
One other thing - before you start sulking and questioning the value of this forum....let me give you a quote that my "mentor" said to me after he saw my first short.

"I see nothing in this short that tells me you are a director. I suggest you quit directing, and get into producing if you want to be involved in movies. It's a shame you had to play your shots so wide, and there is no visual style at all to your work."

Pretty harsh, hey? And you know what? That came from an A list producer who has a movie in the theaters RIGHT NOW, and has produced dozens of features and TV shows. His movies are filled with A listers!!!!

Dude, my friend is the real thing and he shut me down in my tracks. The bulk of these DVX user folks are hobbyists or no one in particular. How do you think i felt being "insulted" by a real industry pro? Like ****.

But it's the best advice I have ever been given.

It's up to you to either feel miserable, keep defending your work, or suck it up and move on.
 
Listen, I'll admit I was a little harsh....but still, I've seen some amazing work on this forum, work that makes me jealous of my own skills in filmaking. But ever since the first comment about the video being "flat", filmkr was never receptive about the comments, he was only defending them. It just got a little annoying. I would have never written that comment if he was like "ok, see where you are coming from and blah blah blah"..... I understand this is his first try at filmmaking but to get better you need to just listen to people and stop defending yourself. That’s not going to get you anywhere. Maybe next time down post something with the mind set of thinking everyone who sees this is going to be amazed. Plus, when he was trying to defend himself, He was sounding like a complete amateur. Which he is, but his approach to this forum got a little out of hand. Like I said before. A for effort and good job completing something from start to finish. (something I've fell short on a few times). The Poster looks amazing and I hope to see other projects from you in the future. Just try to better yourself with each and every project you're apart of.
 
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