Erased - feature trailer

Without actually seeing the whole movie I don't think you can properly judge the acting. The trailer gives you a few lines of dialogue from the movie here and there, and they're taken out of context for the trailer. That's no way to get a good feeling for whether or not the actor is doing well at that particular point because you don't know what the circumstances are, what's happening in the scene, why the actor is acting that way, etc. I'm not saying this is Oscar-caliber material or anything, but people always say the acting isn't good on a movie when all they've seen is a trailer. And I'm not talking about just my movie, I'm talking about all movies, so I'm not being defensive about it. It just doesn't make sense. You just can't honestly judge the acting of an entire movie on a 90 second trailer. A trailer is designed to make a movie attractive to an audience, to interest them and intrigue them into wanting to see the movie. It's not going to show you how good the actors are because you're only getting a few lines of dialogue from the movie.

Just a note... When one person says this is just criticism and I should listen and learn from it is fine. For me it's not necessary because I expect it and appreciate it if it's constructive. I don't need every person repeating that, especially when I already stated that it doesn't bother me and thanked others for their comments, and even said I was making changes to the trailer based on the comments. Multiple people constantly repeating that gets annoying real fast. It's okay to back each other up by agreeing with "flat" so I know there's more than one person who thinks that, but the "honest crticism and learning from it" stuff is getting to me. I don't need to hear back what I just said myself. I'm not mad, it just gets annoying and anyone that's been on the receiving end of criticism should understand what I mean.
 
flmmkr said:
Without actually seeing the whole movie I don't think you can properly judge the acting. The trailer gives you a few lines of dialogue from the movie here and there, and they're taken out of context for the trailer. That's no way to get a good feeling for whether or not the actor is doing well at that particular point because you don't know what the circumstances are, what's happening in the scene, why the actor is acting that way, etc. I'm not saying this is Oscar-caliber material or anything, but people always say the acting isn't good on a movie when all they've seen is a trailer. And I'm not talking about just my movie, I'm talking about all movies, so I'm not being defensive about it. It just doesn't make sense. You just can't honestly judge the acting of an entire movie on a 90 second trailer. A trailer is designed to make a movie attractive to an audience, to interest them and intrigue them into wanting to see the movie. It's not going to show you how good the actors are because you're only getting a few lines of dialogue from the movie.
Click to expand...

That may be so, BUT if your trailer doesn't have some of the BEST parts of the movie, ie. acting, action, suspense, thrills or whatever, then you are doing your actors a dis-service and your potential audience. The few lines of dialog the actors do have in the trailer better be believable!
If I look at a trailer and think the acting looks bad or the story does not interest me or I dont get excited about the movie, do you honestly think I am going to pull ten bucks out of my pocket to see if the full length movie is any better? Your trailer is your only selling tool. Make it as good as possible.
I've never seen a disclaimer on a movie trailer saying "please dont think that this is the best this movie has to offer, as it's only a trailer and there is a lot better acting, cooler camera angles etc. in the whole movie".
 
I think the problem is pacing. The trailer feels way too long. There's the cool moments there and there but those are broken up by long text animations or of people just talking to each other. Also consider replacing the song you were using, it's too slow.
 
Mike,
Sorry to annoy you the only reason I mentioned accepting criticism was you seemed defensive rather than taking it to heart. Sorry if I misread you.
 
Well done on your first feature. You have aready completed principal photography now all you need is some color and your feature will be complete. Yes your movie is flat but you can change all of that by relighting and coloring in post. You have great clean plates, you can do lots of secondaries on your walls create cool shadows and add a lot of character to your film. I dont know what the story is about, but I gather its in the action thriller genre, so your digital cinematography should be along those lines. the web has a vast resource on digital cinematography and coloring. The good thing about the Hvx is you get these really clean plates to manipulate. you can basically add a lot of depth to your film, just by color seperating the shadows from the foreground. remember what you were thought in film school, "all film is about perception". If the current look is what you are going for that is cool too, a lot of films like 24 hr photo and thumbsucker went for this look.

congrats again on you feature
 
Congratulations on completing the film! That's a huge accomplishment.

As far as the editing, the trailer has lots of text on the screen and huge amounts of time between graphics. This is a bit confusing. I would cut them down. Perhaps you don't need as many. It's better to have the viewer think about what they are seeing without a ton of explanation. You want this to come across as a smart thriller, right? Trust you audience a little more. Cut out most of the text screens.

It is also my opinion that your text looks a little too formal. I would add a simple 3D font with a slow move or something. Live Type has some cool 3D fonts, but don't go overboard. The current font just seems a little cheap.

Keep the pacing fast. It should get faster and faster from start to finish. It's got to look like your heroes life is spinning out of control. I feel like your current trailer drags at times. Tighten it up.

I'm also not a fan of the shots where the actors are talking to each other and looking in the same screen direction. It looks like a mistake. It does not look like something you did to shock the viewer. Can you flip one of the shots? You should try it. It takes me right out of the story to see that at the start of your trailer. You could also try overlapping shots and just stay on one actor. When I say overlapping I mean inter cut another action visual scene in place of the not essential actor in the scene where the screen direction is off. I hope that makes sense.

These are just my opinions. It's your film. Use what you want to and don't get so defensive. People are just trying to help. People trash multimillion dollar films everyday.
 
Okay, taking everyone's advice I've re-cut the trailer. I took some shots out, added a couple, shortened some shots, sped up the text animations shortening them by 33-50%, and remixed the music a little. The trailer is now about 27 seconds shorter, coming in at 1 minute 3 seconds.

I tried some different text animations for the beginning and even transitioning back to shots from the movie and didn't like anything else I came up with. I did change the font to the same logo font in the one-sheet, but it's still plain white text. I tried some textures, including the one in the one-sheet, but I didn't like any of them for the trailer. I also left all the text in there because taking out any of them causes the rest to make no sense or gives no conclusion.

The only thing I haven't been able to do is re-color the movie or shots in the trailer. I've been experimenting with various looks, tried all the preset looks in Magic Bullet Editors 2 and even custom settings of my own and haven't come up with anything I like. My original intention was the way it is now... a natural real life look. The shots have all been color corrected to be the way everything looked on set.

I'm open to trying some different looks if anyone has a specific suggestions before I post the new trailer.
 
I have done a test of what I might consider and uploaded a web page with examples from the movie. http://www.ascentiafilms.com/MBEtest.html All the pics have the same exact Magic Bullet Editors 2 Look Suite filter applied after color correcting, so some don't seem to have the complete look. Obviously if I stuck with this basic look I would have to fine tune each shot/scene.

Any opinions or suggestions about those?
 
filmmkr - just read criticism and comments and either take them or dont - but no need to qualify things or defend - everyone is just trying to help.

The effort behind the trailer is very good. For me the 3 biggest issues visually are:

- footage is far too crisp - looks like the detail on the camera was turned up or you were shooting in the wrong matrix or something. You can easily fix that in post. I also took a look at your color corrected shots - it looks like they are barely touched. You should look into more advances color correction concepts such as trasfer layers and adjusting the contrast and range of tones. Your images are clean so you can push them VERY VERY far and you are barely pushing them. Biggest thing you can do is add a soft light transfer with a slight gaussian blur - that will remove the video detail look.

- camera felt very still and static if you have a lot of moving shots use them in your trailer. Dont worry about giving something away - just put them in out of context. You simply MUST IMHO put in the best looking shots in your trailer in terms of movement to help sell the production value.

- Do yourself a favor and lose the 180 cross shot in the beginning - yes you can cross the line to add to an unease - but that should be transparent to the audience - they should feel but not notice it. This one just looks like a cut is missing.

Overall the effort looks very strong here.
 
LighthouseMedia said:
I agree wit the flat feeling, don't take it as negative but rather constructive criticism it will help your next project be that much better. Overall not bad per se just not intriguing it was "flat". From the actors performances to the lighting and camera work.

Chiaroscuro as Justyn eluded is a painting term that was applied to early paintings in the 15th-16th centuries, essentially it was the technique of using both light and shadow to create and model, adding planes of depth to a painting which is essentially a two dimensional medium. Negative fill or the lack of light, or shadow, can enhance depth and it is in fact this variation of light and dark that adds depth to video or film as well, creating depth in a medium that would otherwise be very two dimensional.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the better clarification.. and to think I had an art history education.... drunk away during years of colllege...


That was a great post about how one thinks of your first film as being the biggest thing. Not that you did on this as we don't know. I just know that I DID... That I jacked my credit cards to the max and suffered years of bad credit and collections and all of that.


As you can see this is an OVERLY supportive and understanding group here. You'are among friends and everyone has something to add. Also, as the person just mentioned... take the good and throw the bad away. No need to justify your choices. I've posted stuff here that flatly gets panned by a lot.. and accepted by a few. That's the biz.


Stick to ya guns and hopefully this will make your piece better for you... and you alone. I also know that I only ever show a piece to people when I'm happy with it.. and then to get some more insight. I've re-edited several pieces here after getting some great advice.


good luck... and believe me most of us have done the one man wearing many hats under adverse time constraints with no budgets. Thankfully though as time has gone along I've realized where and when to pass along the jobs and where I can streamline the process...

This has so many good insights.. could almost become a sticky!
 
smelni said:
- footage is far too crisp - looks like the detail on the camera was turned up or you were shooting in the wrong matrix or something. You can easily fix that in post. I also took a look at your color corrected shots - it looks like they are barely touched. You should look into more advances color correction concepts such as trasfer layers and adjusting the contrast and range of tones. Your images are clean so you can push them VERY VERY far and you are barely pushing them. Biggest thing you can do is add a soft light transfer with a slight gaussian blur - that will remove the video detail look.
Click to expand...

The detail on the camera was not turned up and nothing was done in post to make anything look sharper or crisper. I can't imagine why I would want to soften the picture, but maybe you're describing something different when you mention "soft light transfer" and "gaussian blur".

Like I said, right now the movie looks the way I originally intended. I'm open to trying some different looks, but I need some suggestions since what I've tried already I don't really care for. My examples that I posted are really just increasing contrast. I wasn't going for anything drastic. I tried some drastic things with Magic Bullet Editors 2 Look Suite presets and some of my own settings and didn't have much luck coming up with anything.

I don't know what a tranfer layer is. Could you explain that and maybe what you recommend as far as a "range of tones" that you mentioned? FYI, I'm using Final Cut Studio and also have Magic Bullet Editors 2, Colorista, and Shake 4 at my disposal.

The 180-line crossing shot has been removed in the newer cut that I haven't posted yet. It's probably more noticeable because the shot was so short and nothing happened in it. You also don't see the wide shot of both of them right before that shows their relation to each other. Ragardless, it's been fixed in the trailer.
 
just saw the stills... Some really nice cc there and shots. My .02 though is that the blank white walls are just the worst. Screams out at me.. and of course they are from doing that myself in years past. It just has no character.. NO mis-en-scene as it is.. Now if it were an insane asylum or something dreary.. but even then it'd has some tints and casts and something breaking it up..

I've been a set dresser and production designer on a lot of big budget stuff and that's just something that I"m hyper aware of..

Maybe it's just me though?
 
Justyn said:
just saw the stills... Some really nice cc there and shots. My .02 though is that the blank white walls are just the worst. Screams out at me.. and of course they are from doing that myself in years past. It just has no character.. NO mis-en-scene as it is.. Now if it were an insane asylum or something dreary.. but even then it'd has some tints and casts and something breaking it up..

I've been a set dresser and production designer on a lot of big budget stuff and that's just something that I"m hyper aware of..

Maybe it's just me though?
Click to expand...

Which shots are you referring to that look nice? The ones in the left column (original cc'd) or the right column (Look Suite)?

As far as the plain white walls... that was sort of done on purpose for that set, and for the other sets that had a similar look (interrogation rooms). My thinking was that this character can't remember anything, and hasn't been able to for who knows how long. He loses his memory every time he sleeps, so would he ever think to decorate the walls? The other part has to do with his real identity and what my thoughts were of his lifestyle. Since that obviously is not conveyed in the trailer I've also removed the wide shot that shows the wall from the trailer.

The interrogation rooms have had color correction to make the scene darker and the walls look grayish rather than white, but they are interrogation rooms, so they would be plain. The interrogation room shot was removed from the trailer as well.
 
just think if that thing looked like Dangerous Grounds, it would really take it up a notch....www.mobijokes.tv if you have not seen Dangerous Grounds.
NEVER EVER EVER use white walls in a film, they don't give a good look
 
Last edited:
I like your right column CC better. To me it fits the mood of the movie better. It does look like some of your highlights (whites) get a little blown out but if you don't care then I don't care.
 
flmmkr - you may have not turned your detail up but you also didnt turn it down which is a fairly common thing to do on the HVX - its a very sharp camera and to avoid the video look you absolutely want to soften the image - using transfer modes is a high end way to do it - you can do that with shake - but in camera you need to turn your detail level down.

It looks tooo video and that is partially because it is too sharp. Film has a soft look - with out trying to do that at all it looks like video
 
obin said:
I wish I had shot this. it would look sooo good, right now it looks like flat video, even though the actors - story - shots - sound bed- music all feel like a "film" it looks like video 100%

just think if that thing looked like Dangerous Grounds, it would really take it up a notch....www.mobijokes.tv if you have not seen Dangerous Grounds. and NO I am not telling you that it sucks, I just don't like the way it looks at all.

NEVER EVER EVER use white walls in a film, looks like user gen video garbage.
Click to expand...

You don't need to be so rude about it. Go somewhere else to proclaim you're better than everyone else. I may be taking it wrong, but the way you said this just comes across as plain rude....
 
Last edited:
I think the shots on the left are more attractive... but the ones on the right looked a bit rougher and more cinematic.


Now I understand your reasoning and that makes sense. It is often times hard to tell the whole story from a trailer.. but the trailer is a mini story which can often times tell a totally different story than the film itself.


To veer off for a sec.. One of the coolest trailers I've ever seen was the one for Buffallo 66. Really nothing to do with the movie, but man did it make me wanna check out the flick. Which is actually also a good movie.


Also, with a look it's how it gels together. I mean the grain and processing on 300 didn't exactly make it look super glorious on a singular level... but holistically it really fit so well with everything and had such a rich texture. Now this might not work for every piece... so it comes up with the ability to set a mood and go with it.


I do 2nd that those mobijoke pieces, albiet Jokes transferred to video... which is a tough task... LOOK VERY HIGH END.
 
smelni said:
flmmkr - you may have not turned your detail up but you also didnt turn it down which is a fairly common thing to do on the HVX - its a very sharp camera and to avoid the video look you absolutely want to soften the image - using transfer modes is a high end way to do it - you can do that with shake - but in camera you need to turn your detail level down.

It looks tooo video and that is partially because it is too sharp. Film has a soft look - with out trying to do that at all it looks like video
Click to expand...

Can you explain "transfer modes" so I can give it a try. I'm willing to give it a shot if it will make the movie look better. I just don't know what it is. Thanks.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top