"EOS Movies" 4k Speculation.
- Thread starter meauounji
- Start date
What I've been thinking (And I think I posted this somewhere) in the early press stuff about the 1Dx there was talk of filling up a 16 GB card in 6 min, which roughs out at 360 mbps.
There was also talk that the 1Dx I-frame codec was about 3x the IBP codec which was 30-35 mbps (VFR?).
Now these can't both be right *unless* The 360 mbps thing was *actually* from a test-bed "mule" and was the 4k MJPEG codec.
Let's see how a 4X (QHD) codec would play out at 360 mbps
4k is 4x the resolution of HD, so 360/4 is 90 mbps, so do we have anything like that for comparison?
Yes, actually we do (Sort of), the Pentax K5 runs about 75 mbps, and I believe there is a GH2 (Or was it GH13?) hack MLPEG running 90 mbps. Both of these were / are supposed to be pretty damn good. And that's from downsampling a big sensor.
The "1C" isn't downsampling anything, it's taking a straight 4k window out of a FF sensor.
I would hope and expect it to be pretty damn amazing, even at 8 bit, and we may even get more.
People turn their noses up at MJPEG, saying it's an old codec, the reverse of this is to say, because it's old, it's well established and a very known quantity, and should be relitivly edit friendly.
Dave
There was also talk that the 1Dx I-frame codec was about 3x the IBP codec which was 30-35 mbps (VFR?).
Now these can't both be right *unless* The 360 mbps thing was *actually* from a test-bed "mule" and was the 4k MJPEG codec.
Let's see how a 4X (QHD) codec would play out at 360 mbps
4k is 4x the resolution of HD, so 360/4 is 90 mbps, so do we have anything like that for comparison?
Yes, actually we do (Sort of), the Pentax K5 runs about 75 mbps, and I believe there is a GH2 (Or was it GH13?) hack MLPEG running 90 mbps. Both of these were / are supposed to be pretty damn good. And that's from downsampling a big sensor.
The "1C" isn't downsampling anything, it's taking a straight 4k window out of a FF sensor.
I would hope and expect it to be pretty damn amazing, even at 8 bit, and we may even get more.
People turn their noses up at MJPEG, saying it's an old codec, the reverse of this is to say, because it's old, it's well established and a very known quantity, and should be relitivly edit friendly.
Dave
Why?
If it's based on the 1Dx I wouldn't expect it to be much, if any, more expensive, and if they removed all the photo gubbins (Mirror etc) and replaced it with an EVF (A *good* EVF) it may even be cheaper.
JoeJITSU
Veteran
Of course
Rick Burnett
Section Moderator
Here is something no one has mentioned...Rolling Shutter. It's possible that this new cinema camera might be 4k (and by the way, good job on the math, I hadn't thought of checking that), but, it might not have as good a rolling shutter as what the C300 has. For some, this wont matter, but for me, that's one of the awesome things about the C300. You get a lot more freedom with a faster rolling shutter.
I'm excited to see what they do with it. It never hurts to have more cameras to chose from.
I'm excited to see what they do with it. It never hurts to have more cameras to chose from.
I can't see Canon undermining the C300 with a DSLR camera...
So what do you think the price of this Canon Cine DSLR will be ?
My guess is that it will cost somewhere close to $10K and it will be sold as a special order item, as the sales for this camera will be a tiny fraction of what the 1Dx camera will be.
So what do you think the price of this Canon Cine DSLR will be ?
My guess is that it will cost somewhere close to $10K and it will be sold as a special order item, as the sales for this camera will be a tiny fraction of what the 1Dx camera will be.
Darren Levine
Veteran
im sorry but WHAT?
canon make a special order dslr?
that just makes zero sense mi amigo
Manufacturers ( including Canon and Nikon ) have done this in the past, though I don't know how often it's happened in the DSLR world.
Where companies produce a limited run of a specialty item, which means a waiting list, and you pay a premium for the item.
I can't see a Canon 4K DSLR selling well unless it was cheaper than the IDx body, which will never happen, so it's going to end up being a specialty item that is made in batches, and priced so that it will not undermine the C300 camera, which from my perspective is going to put it close to $10K. ( this is going to be a premium product for Canon )
I also wonder what is going to happen with the video capability of Canons 5D MK3 or 7D MK2, because again Canon is not going to want to deter people from buying or renting the C300. Competition from other manufacturers is the only thing that will force Canons hand to produce cheaper and better products.
squig
Veteran
I can't see it costing 10k. Canon would want to entice the 5D crowd and sell a sh..load of them so I would expect it to be more like 6k. Ideally it shouldn't cost more than what I paid for the 5D 3 years ago, $4000. 4k for 4k? If the Nikon D4 is as good as it sounds then Canon could lose a lot of sales if they don't get the price and features right.
squig
Veteran
The K5 video looks really nice, such a shame they didn't add 24p and manual controls. 100Mbit/s+ m-jpeg used to be regarded as broadcast quality back in the day when we used to capture analogue video with targa boards. It's an old codec but as far as single frames are concerned jpegs are still industry standard for compressed photo's and m-jpeg isn't much more than 24 jpeg's per second. I'll take m-jpeg over H.264 any day. If only Nikon had of stuck with m-jpeg and just upped the bitrate. The D3s and D7000 would have destroyed the Canons. And a ninja wouldn't be needed as much with the D4.
KyleProhaska
Veteran
The real problem with everyone talking about these different cameras is the conversation or posts always have this "kill" mentality. This camera will kill that camera, this camera is way better who would buy this or that, etc. If they make a 4K DSLR it's not a C300 killer at all. A DSLR isn't for everyone, and neither is the C300. They both have different uses for different people. The Scarlet is hardly an EPIC killer despite what many niave people online think. You only have to be around reduser for all but 5 seconds to know that those with their EPIC's wouldn't trade it in for a Scarlet under pain of death.
4k motion-jpeg is all well and good, and might be pretty amazing, but it's not going to have internal ND, it's not going to have the features that the C300 has internally, it's not going to have XLR inputs, it's not going to have a monitor that comes with it, it won't have C-LOG more then likely, and on and on it goes.
Sigh, I don't know why I post in these threads anymore. I think I'll retire for a while, because the tune never changes.
4k motion-jpeg is all well and good, and might be pretty amazing, but it's not going to have internal ND, it's not going to have the features that the C300 has internally, it's not going to have XLR inputs, it's not going to have a monitor that comes with it, it won't have C-LOG more then likely, and on and on it goes.
Sigh, I don't know why I post in these threads anymore. I think I'll retire for a while, because the tune never changes.
Emanuel
Cross-Examiner
Actually, I was replying to others' posts... Here they are:
</end of quote> But the fact is, for some reason the Canon costs much higher. Perhaps out of range for some, anyway:
In that video, there's an interesting comparison between C300 and DSLR world. Take a look.
Emanuel
Cross-Examiner
I agree with you Anthony. The 'kill' introduction has a meaning and that's the MJPEG is powerful enough to rock over some other shitty codecs.
squig
Veteran
Nikon certainly could have hurt Canon's DSLR sales if their DSLRs had a much higher bit-rate, just look at the popularity of the hacked GH1 and GH2. Does a 35mm ARRI have XLRs or NDs? I want the best image for the least money. All the other stuff I can add on and you can bet that those add ons will be better quality than what comes with a video camera. But having said that I understand that some people want a box that does everything and are willing to pay through the nose for it. What's potentially exciting about the D4 is that it "may" be able to produce beautiful pictures for a lot less than an EPIC, Alexa, or C300. It's also smaller and lighter. Same goes for the C-DSLR. Sooner or later it won't cost 16, 35, or 80k to get amazing image quality, it will only cost 1-5k. My guess is within 12 months. A fully kitted out D4 with a ninja, vari-ND, and external audio recorder will only set you back 8k.
I see the "C1x" or whatever and the C300 as different tools for different jobs.
An analagy
A screwdriver and chisel may look superficially similar, but you wouldn't try to carve wood with a screwdriver, or do up screws with a chisel, unles you were a total numpty, and neither "kills" the other.
Just know what job you're trying to do, and pick the tool best suited for it.
An analagy
A screwdriver and chisel may look superficially similar, but you wouldn't try to carve wood with a screwdriver, or do up screws with a chisel, unles you were a total numpty, and neither "kills" the other.
Just know what job you're trying to do, and pick the tool best suited for it.