Envision & RebeccaD Present "Where Silence Falls"

John_Hudson said:


Come on Sanders ! Let people have an opinion. :undecided
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:huh: I'm letting everyone have an opinion, and wanting to at least comment & address what they've said as well. Some things I agree with (actually, if you look back there's probably a lot more I agree with than disagree), and some I see it a little differently & just voicing it, that's all.

Cool banner, BTW!
 
Weston said:
I thought this was very well done.

Acting/story/cinematography/direction/music. Everything seemed to work.

Pretty damn good...and number 2 on my list.

I think this stands as proof that if you keep at something long enough...you will eventually improve. Truthfully....I used to doubt whether or not you could make a good film. Your previous films all looked good...sounded good...and were for the most part enjoyable......but the execution didn't seem right. They didnt feel like a real film.

However...with this one you finally got it....at least for me.

Anyway...nice work.
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Thanks, Weston. It's inspiring to be able to have folks that have seen projects from a little over a year ago, and be able to watch them through the past 4-5 festivals ... and see improvement. To me, that's what it's all about. Using the short films as a kind of training/proving ground before trying to think about doing larger projects.

Anyway, glad it worked for you & you enjoyed it. Thank you for watching. :)
 
Envision said:
:huh: I'm letting everyone have an opinion, and wanting to at least comment & address what they've said as well. Some things I agree with (actually, if you look back there's probably a lot more I agree with than disagree), and some I see it a little differently & just voicing it, that's all.

Cool banner, BTW!
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Well, you're in what I call perpetual acquittal mode.

This is the part where the filmmaker has an excuse, reason or validation behind every critique on every element. You thinking something works or that it was the right decision does not change the fact that it does not work for someone else.

You made a fine film this round. Take the comments in stride; no one expects you to defend anything.

Your growth is evident !

"

:beer: :)
 
John_Hudson said:
Well, you're in what I call perpetual acquittal mode.
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LOL, and here I go again .... For me, I feel kind of rude if I don't address the things folks say didn't work for them (I typically try to address/comment all their major points).

Everyone has their own style of what they like/dislike, and no film or filmmaker will ever please all people ... ever. Lots of things that have been said in here I've agreed with, but if there's something I didn't agree with, I want to address why I did it and why I would still do it again, because it's my style or taste.

And I completely understand that my thinking something works doesn't change the fact it didn't for someone else. But if someone's going to tell me in person what didn't work for them & why, I would still tell them (in person) "thank you", and that I either agree with them & will make note for the future, or why I would have to disagree & still choose to do it again if I had the chance. So this forum is no different than how I would carry the conversation on in person, so to speak.
 
You don't find it a bit dismissive with that approach ? Obviously, you think it worked, you're the one who did it. Is there really a need for the "Yeah, but's ...."

Acknowledging that something does not work shows confidence, justifying a choice from a critique is a discord. Although I think the director reserves the right to his decisions, I also think he loses the right to his opinion once the work is let-go.

(I'd be curious to know what others think about this; in another thread of course.)

-

I'm sorry Norm, I did not intend this to turn into a major discussion in your thread.

Threadjack !

t_threadjack_831.jpg
 
Envision said:
LOL, and here I go again .... For me, I feel kind of rude if I don't address the things folks say didn't work for them (I typically try to address/comment all their major points).

Everyone has their own style of what they like/dislike, and no film or filmmaker will ever please all people ... ever. Lots of things that have been said in here I've agreed with, but if there's something I didn't agree with, I want to address why I did it and why I would still do it again, because it's my style or taste.

And I completely understand that my thinking something works doesn't change the fact it didn't for someone else. But if someone's going to tell me in person what didn't work for them & why, I would still tell them (in person) "thank you", and that I either agree with them & will make note for the future, or why I would have to disagree & still choose to do it again if I had the chance. So this forum is no different than how I would carry the conversation on in person, so to speak.
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I gotta agree with you Norm. Where would we be if we couldn't stand by our decisions? Not making movies, that's for sure.
 
John_Hudson said:
Acknowledging that something does not work shows confidence, justifying a choice from a critique is a discord. Although I think the director reserves the right to his decisions, I also think he loses the right to his opinion once the work is let-go.
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FIRST OFF .... I love the terminator 'Give me your threads' pic ... too funny, lol. :grin:

Seriously, if you look back at what a lot of people have critiqued, it would be the punching scene, the montage/fade choices, where they felt some of the dialogue didn't work, etc. ..... ALL of which I've agreed with. So that would go with your confidence approach, as above.

But I don't have to agree with everything someone says, and if I do feel differently I think this is the 'perfect' place to state so ... right back in this thread, in response to what they had to say. Now, if I was being an ass about it, or egotistical with my responses/approach, that'd be a whole nother story ... but I'd like to believe that's not my approach/style.

And I'm not worried about a thread jack, so no worries. Thanks though!
 
John_Hudson said:
... Although I think the director reserves the right to his decisions, I also think he loses the right to his opinion once the work is let-go ....
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Wow.

The expropriation of the right to an opinion as a direct result of participation?

A fascinating and novel concept which I would personally fight against at all costs.
 
it becoms an interpertive after you realse if someone doesnt like it ok so you dont have to be like well you should like it because this is what it means. if people like it then good but if not thats cool too you dont have to back up what you made unless they totally just trash it with out reason. read the North review by roger ebert its what you go for the limit I guess. man, North sucked.
 
Just dropped by to say congrats again on your best film yet Norm.

But I see there is a lively discussion going on here.

I think both sides have a point and I think Norm it's just about wording.

Take it from a guy that has handled criticism both the right and wrong way in these fests.

This is not a criticism of Norm but just some stuff I learned doing this 4 times and having more and more attention each time, some stuff I hope is worth thinking about and relevant here.

There's a difference between saying "Yeah I think it works for the most part but I see what you are saying about ..." and listing all the people on your team and people you've showed it too who agree with you and reasons you are right about a moment working or not.

From the "Survival guide to Film Festivals" book, the ONLY thing that won't get your butt in hot water (get you a bad rep or hurt marketing your film) in a live post film discussion is to smile, be funny, and don't argue with anyone no matter what they say. It is not necessarily fair, but it's just the way the equation works. Anything that comes from the film goer that is not just appreciative of the feedback, or doesn't very lightly say that you like it but you see there point cannot do anything for you except make you seem defensive.

It would be nice if people giving feedback took some responsibility. There is never a need for hyperbole or expletives or phrases like "moron" "I can't believe you did that what the hell were you thinking?" etc. But you can't control that. (and I'm not revering to anyone in this thread.)

you've made a good film and you have to trust that. out of random people seeing your film on the internet there will be people that say this or that moment sucks and they will sound like the majority most of the time.

but the other people reading threads or internet boards or whatever get that. Just because DVXuser4Life says your film sucks or they disagree with a moment doesn't mean it will become gospel. People are pretty good at reading between the lines and making their own opinion.

So my advice:
1) If you can - don't respond to harsh comments even if they are valid. What's the point? It won't change the persons mind and can only make you look defensive. "There's no rule that says you have to respond to every comment" - Sir Isaac Brody I had a great experience in Horrorfest mostly because I didn't respond to people's posts at all except to say thanks for the feedback and to answer questions.
2) Don't disagree with people unless you see their point or want to make a good point that you think other people will enjoy because it sheds light on how your choice paid of later. DON'T, whatever you do, list the reasons you are right and they are wrong. It can't help. It won't make you look good and it won't change anyone's opinion.
3) thank people for their feedback especially if it's a long involved review and answer questions - that's the best thing and it will actually get you the most out of the feedback and enhance everyone's experience.

Ok hopefully that was helpful and not preachy. Sorry if it was the latter.

Best, and congrats again Norm - really blossomed with this one.
 
Hmmmm, thoughts to ponder. Thanks, Jack. I like your advice from your HorrorFest experience. I'll try to make that stick for the next fest I enter. :thumbsup:
 
Wow Jack, I'm pretty new to this Forum world and I just wanted to say, I wish I would have read your post a long time ago :) Some great advice there.:beer:

Any way, back to Where Silence Falls.
 
thanks :beer: sorry I haven't seen your film yet. I suck about that this fest. I will watch tonight. I didn't vote because I didn't feel I'd seen enough. :(

Envision said:
Hmmmm, thoughts to ponder. Thanks, Jack. I like your advice from your HorrorFest experience. I'll try to make that stick for the next fest I enter. :thumbsup:
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yeah :beer:

it's just about realizing that all your best intentions go though a weird filter and come out another way when responding to criticism - which isn't necessarily cool but it's just a factual phenomenon like water spinning around a drain one way on this hemisphere and another way in the east. It just is.
 
Responding to feedback isnt easy. You've just made the film a certain way and for the most part have made it because there's a lot about it you liked (even if you may not have achieved it). For me I am probably too close to my films to know what the faults are at that time. Some things you defend you may look back on differently when you've had time to reflect. It's hard to see that when you've been wrapped up in it for so long day after day. These things can become obvious to you even a year later.

I'm not saying that's the case here - just as an addition to this discussion.

But you made the decision to film it the way you did, and if everyone on this board had made the film they would have undoubtable taken different decisions. Thats fine, that's directing. So I do understand a director defending his position to do the things the way he did; it's interesting....but equally I love to know what fresh eyes think on a first view - that's a perspective I will never have as a director of my own film. Not ever.

Norm this isnt directed at you, just an interesting discussion.

I've noticed that some of the best films in the fest always get the harshest feedback - that's always a good thing. It's like a teacher at school investing more time on the bright kid as he knows he has potential to achieve.
 
Norm is a class act and I thank all who have put up with my stirring of the pot. Jack summed it up with abandon. It is exactly what I meant, but better put

and

Perhaps not handled properly; Norm, I do not refer to you per se ....

-

What an elightening discussion. I personally found Norm's film something to strive for.

I only encourage confidence and commitment but without excuse.

==

My thoughts are strictyl from the heart; as a director, I feel I lose my opinion (Is there a better word I am not thinking of?) upon public release.

Who am I making films for if not for you.

====================================================

Norm

Thanks for entertaining me on this. I was not meaning to single you out, but we've all known each other going on 3 or 4 years now ....

It's like a fraternity
 
No harm, no foul. :beer:

Thanks all! Thankfully, I'm getting pulled out of the house for a couple hours, which will help take my mind off the results that should be forth coming soon ...
 
8th Review:

Ahh Norm, my good buddy! :p

In any case, i didnt like the title going over a cut in the movie. The cinematography improved 10 fold over the last short of yours from horrorfest. Was less robotic but still not up to the norm, no pun intended, of a dramatic narrative. i didnt feel with the characters, for 2 reasons, i thought the majority of the acting was not very strong, and felt they were over reacting a bit. not a father but an uncle, i can relate to a situtation like that, hell i even check on my brother whos 5 years older than me if i dont see him a few hours.

technical note, compression was horrible and filled with scan lines.

the beat down in the end wasnt believable to me, but i did like the twist albeit i dont think this story the way it was presented shouldnt have reached that point. I also felt the acting on your part hit a peak near the end before dropping back down. you play angry much better than any other emotion.

To much my suprise, you were my fave at this point, but after watching the first shorts i did, that is not saying much, but after watching the ones after this one, it still held up , and is still very high on my list when compared to the competition, if that means anything significant , which i dont think it does too much so.

In closing, getting better, i finally think i noticed a slightest bit of creativity popping out of you. It was a good idea that you thought of which showed , though still some cliche' fellings and shots, you improved since horrorfest.

thats it.

maybe i should give a disclaimer before i get warned? ( i had to stop reviewing horrorfest because i wasnt being that positive, this is how i feel and i guess ill just post until im stopped again)
 
Wow, I have the flu for a couple days and look what I miss! :) Thank you all so much for the in depth reviews. We really appreciate the feedback!
 
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