Enough Already ! Adaptor Makers Guilty

T

Tim Naylor

Veteran
All three adaptor makers are guilty as sin. Save us the heartache and save yourselves the endless email and phone responses by printing (even if it means killing a few recycled bundles of paper) complete documentation. I'm constantly reading threads on people frustrated with how to assemble, set back focus, collimate, clean dust out, etc. Why the hell do they have to even come here to get these answers? It should be documented in an easy to read pamphlet (not a one sheet). No one should have to log in to a "university" or email the inventor for most of the questions I see popping up. If you can design an adaptor, surely, documentation can't be that much harder.

You should be able to look it up on set. Can't tell you how many times I've been saved on the field by the manual (all you Varicam users chime in).

It should minimally have the following sections: assembly, adjustment, maintenance, troubleshooting and customer service support info. Why is this so I&(()&^***ing hard? Don't tell me it'll raise the costs. What? A buck or two?

What really took me over the edge is the latest thread on how to collimate a LEX. After reading the bootleg (yet inventive) gaffer tape solution, I began to think, damn, I'd be steaming after paying 1400 for an adaptor set up and no real instructions on a basic maintenance issue such as collimation. I have countless emails from the manufacturers (all three) on how to fix this, clean that, adjust this, replace that. On set you don't have time to wait a day or two or a response or in some cases access to a computer.

Any mechanical multipart product that cost over 500 should have complete documentation. Hell, my 200 dollar point and shoot has more as well as my 80 dollar vacuum.

As the guy in Network said "I'm mad as hell and we're not gonna a take it anymore". I say give good business to the guys who give decent instructions and hell to those who don't. The hall pass has lasted too long. Bomb them with requests - no, make that demands on what it should include (as we are the brave Beta testers and hate to say it, suckers - so we've earned the right.)

Any pro gear that is used on the field should not require a computer to get answers for simple problems. Granted things like a Zacuto baseplate don't need instructions but based on my experience and the threads I see here, adaptors do. If I see another "go to such and such link" I'm libel to put you on an eternal SPAM list.

Good documentation works both ways. You (manufacturers) get to spend quality time with the kids (even if they're not yours) and we get to spend quality time shooting instead of surfing for answers.

Anyway, I'm done ranting. Adaptor users/victims, please list what should be in the ultimate on set pamplet. We can make this an open forum so the big four can get on the good foot.

Tim Naylor - DP
www.timnaylor.com
 
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Thanks, Tim! I did read somewhere that Letus is making a video tutorial for setup their adapter but so far I have not seen it. In addition, I a manual is very helpful especially in the field and there is no Internet access to ask in this forum. I have to give a lot of credits for those of you who answers many of the adapter's questions in here. I'm also frustrated with the lack of documentation on their product. I have to go through a tone of pages in here to find out pieces of things I needed to setup my adapter.
 
Tim, not sure if you have owned an M2, but Redrock does provide decent documentation. In fact, I bought mine second hand and they pointed me to the PDF files of the manual that I could download and print. I haven't owned the other three (Letus, Brevis, and SGPro), but I assume that's who you mean.

Attached here is the contents page of the M2 manual. Other adapter-makers would do well to include the same topics.
 

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Tim Naylor said:
Why the hell do they have to even come here to get these answers? It should be documented in an easy to read pamphlet (not a one sheet). No one should have to log in to a "university" or email the inventor for most of the questions I see popping up. If you can design an adaptor, surely, documentation can't be that much harder.
Click to expand...


Funny, I've been thinking the same thing lately, especially after watching the RedRock backfocus video for the first time which to me looks like a bunch of mumbo jumbo and is completely negated by the hardmount.

I also think the crucial setup and operation data should be provided clearly in print with the adapters instead of hiding this information on the makers websites. When you pay a grand for a piece of camera equipment, it should come with a manual.

.
 
Naylor, thank you for vocalizing clearly what everybody's thinking.

"Adaptor users/victims, please list what should be in the ultimate on set pamplet."

I think you did that pretty sufficiently, "assembly, adjustment, maintenance, troubleshooting and customer service support info". I'm pretty d@mn certain that would satisfy everyone's needs. If anything it would eliminate at least 75% or more of the threads started on here regarding these topics.

Anyway, good rant.
 
Never though about that. Where's the fun in DVX user if a manual makes it moot? On second thought, send us everything completely disassembled, wrong size screws, the works, and keep DVX user alive.

Silliness aside, I still believe a manual should be hardcopy and with your product not a PDF, DVD, CD or anything else that requires me to log in.

Anyway, keep this thread hot until we hear from the "Triad".

re: PS Tech.
Don't know if it has a manual. Every time I rent one, my rental house (TCS) has it set up to a tee. And in many respects because of its major league build, I rarely have to fuss with it. The back focus is cake as it's designed much like a standard B4 back focus.

I really want one of the low cost makers to introduce a "pro" model for 2500-3000. I figure that would cover 1) easy beefy back focus adjustment 2) better lens mount 3) shoes/shim built into the set screws that currently mount/scratch the lens mount 4) better sealing 5) stronger rod / bracket support 6) a set of ultra high quality achromats for your main types of cameras 7) Easy x/y adjustment 8) a &&$%(#ing cap for the unit - for crying out loud, they still send them out, glass exposed and 8) a damn good field manual with plastic covers like the Goodman Guide.

The market is there for this as it still undercuts PS and RED by a longshot.
 
Well.....I suppose seeing as I waited 39 days for my LEX to be shipped out and I will be waiting about another week until delivery....(Canada)....having to search for a lot of information gave me something to do while waiting for the product.

Just kidding....sorta.

I agree that manufacturers should include instructions/manual (PRINTED!) with a product like a lens adapter. I also very much appreciate all the people who post their knowledge on the forums.

Topics/things I would think make sense would be things like...

Parts lists and diagram - (with exploded views would be great)
Basic assembly - (with some notes to certain exceptions like filter thread sizes, addons, various cameras, etc.)
Adjustments - (back focus, front focus issues, GG screens, rails/risers, lens mounts, adjusting edge sharpness, probably more but I have never owned an adapter yet.
Maintenence - (cleaning, swapping batteries)
Warranty - (contact information, length of warranty, specifics of warranty service)
FAQ/Troubleshooting - (pretty self explanitory other than I would want depth here...I like to fix things myself, give me the means to adequately do so)
Glossary/Definitions - (all the terms and considerations of adapters defined....one of my big issues with some manuals is assumed knowledge of terminoligy and theory)
Diagrams/Photos - (example rigs, step by step illustrations of various procedures)
Focus Chart - (I know this would not be necessarily high quality but it may come in handy in a pinch and give those without one something to work with)
Technical Specs (weight, dimensions, light loss, battery life)

Having said all this a great deal of this information is found in this great forum, but a honest to god manual would be the best new feature of an adapter.

James
 
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Recently received the updated LEX Nikon mount, the price on their website was $20 higher than they quoted me in a personally hand written email. But they upgraded me to FedEx Overnight shipping when they noticed I paid the difference. That was a nice touch. However, when it arrived, it was apparent that the new mount was not the same textured, matte finish as the other LEX parts in my kit, but instead it was anodized gloss black. To be fair, it is significantly more robust than the previous version. It is lightyears ahead of where it used to be. But incorrect pricing and mysteriously non-matching parts are irritating, to say the very least... Printed instructions? Wouldn't expect that anytime soon, but would be nice. I will add that adding a more deluxe (and expensive) product, such as the upgraded Nikon lens mount that costs $100 (vs $60 for the standard mount) IS a move in the right direction. Let's tell them with our dollars that these upgraded parts are worth the expense. That's moving in the right direction, I'd say.
 
I was at B&H the other day when an associate was showing a customer the letusEX on their site. He gave her a brief explanation on what it does. She wanted to leave the store with one right then and there. Reading Tim's rant, I imagined that's what she would be saying when she opened the package (in that fake world where b&h had Extremes in-stock). If you're going retail without a manual, thats just silly IMO.

My additions to the soundprostudios list:

XY adjustments added the "Adjustments" section

CAUTION section - you know, the "Do Not..." section of manuals. Maybe this could be bundled with maintenance.

CONTACT/ADDRESS section - please contact... or email.... send to..... (would help in those on set emergencies where no manual can help, or support is needed asap). Maybe be obvious to include this but you never know. And I couldnt think of anything else to add to his list :)
 
We have been listening and have just finished editing our paper quick start instructions (illustrated) which will ship with every unit. We have had a pdf quick start guide pretty much from day one downloadable by our owners and have had written instructions via our private owner's forum. Every adapter order is confirmed with instructions for access to these materials at least 3 days before an adapter is delivered.

We've spent an incredible amount of time and resources to come up with these clips: http://www.cinevate.com/website/index.php/videouniversity The same clips can be downloaded in higher quality versions from our website by owners. Expect additions to this collection several times a month.

Add to that a published phone number and email that are monitored and responded to daily, a support forum, and finally, video support conferencing on demand. Fedex Express has orders/upgrades/emergency exchange units in owner's hands overnight to the continental US, and 2-3 days worldwide. Is there anything else we can do ? :-)
 
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Tim Naylor said:
Any mechanical multipart product that cost over 500 should have complete documentation. Hell, my 200 dollar point and shoot has more as well as my 80 dollar vacuum.
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this is serious..
Even SilverBack's Tabletop Dolly (Cost only $225) comes with "27 pages" manual.
 
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Dennis Wood said:
We have been listening and have just finished editing our paper quick start instructions (illustrated) which will ship with every unit. We have had a pdf quick start guide pretty much from day one downloadable by our owners and have had written instructions via our private owner's forum. Every adapter order is confirmed with instructions for access to these materials at least 3 days before an adapter is delivered.

We've spent an incredible amount of time and resources to come up with these clips: http://www.cinevate.com/website/index.php/videouniversity The same clips can be downloaded in higher quality versions from our website by owners. Expect additions to this collection several times a month.

Add to that a published phone number and email that are monitored and responded to daily, a support forum, and finally, video support conferencing on demand. Fedex Express has orders/upgrades/emergency exchange units in owner's hands overnight to the continental US, and 2-3 days worldwide. Is there anything else we can do ? :-)
Click to expand...

You're thinking in the right direction. My only suggestion is make your paper manual as complete and comprehensive as possible rather than just a quick start. people working on the field resent having to go to the computer for the real secrets.

Sometimes I feel some of the inventors (bar Zacuto) haven't spent enough time (or any time) in production to see why all the web based instructions should be secondary to hardcopy. Unlike a computer, these are things to be used and fixed immediately on the field, in a desert, in places with no power or people with patience. A manual should be as much as part of the product as an achromat. Imagine selling a car without a manual.

While I find your instructional efforts commendable, the hardcopy manual should have priority over anything computer based. I'm by no means a technophobe - but I do know when a booklet works better and this is one of them.

Just bought a manual for a used Honda I bought. Everything is covered right down to maintenance, schedules, spark plug gaps, timing belts. If I had the tools and time, I could have this car really dialed in without ever having to call or email Honda. The adaptor manual task is far simpler. Just one small product.

Make it so.
 
I don't want to gripe to much but the truth is - Ditto to everything being expressed here. I want a hard copy with everything in it. Quick start is not enough. I want to know how to fix it in the field and don't want to go to a web site when I need the info. I appreciate the effort for the "video university, but for all the time you guys know I spend trouble shooting these adapters, I don't want to sit through a tutorial. Sorry I'm sure its more expensive, but it is what I expect when I buy something.
Give it to me in black and white - hard copy.

By the way Tim - gorgeous work.

Lenny Levy
 
Tim, not to argue, but automotive manuals are a pet peeve for me. I've been working/modifying my own vehicles since I was 16, including nearly a decade of autocross and I can tell you that very few paper manuals are worthy of print when it comes down to getting into the internals. Other than specs, (and I own a Honda CRV) I find even most third party manuals of limited use. Even in this genre, the only one I've ever found worthy of recommendation on paper is the Bentley factory manuals for VWs...and mine all cost from $75 to $100. Most shops now use electronic online manuals such as ALLDATA, which are updated monthly, have service recalls, maintenance tips and the like.

That said, the paper manuals we're sending do have step-by-step instructions on everything covered in our online video manuals. My theory is that between written, online, video, and live support, we should have all learning styles covered. There are at least three threads with similar topics posted here in the last few weeks...so no question we've listening.

1. http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=123357
2. http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=128420&highlight=flip

Cheers,
Dennis.
 
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my redrock came with a paper manual.

i have a different take on this. all 35mm adapters require a certain level of finesse to get the best results. this includes the p+s technik which is not perfect by any means. if you're going to be using an adapter on a shoot that really counts, you had better know it inside and out. know it's limitations and exactly what kind of tweaking may be required. there is a lot of trial and error involved. it's not as simple as opening a manual and figuring out which button to press. my point is that if you hit a 35 adapter snag on set and all you can think of is "i wish i had a manual", you are unprepared.

beyond that, the electronic owner's manual has been a growing trend for years now. in the grand scheme of things, most people don't read manuals. going paperless is good for the planet and reduces costs all around. if you absolutely need a paper manual, print one.
 
A hard copy would be nice but honestly, this isn't a varicam.

If the shoot matters that much, you should have you adapter dialed in way before you get on set. This isn't rocket science, its a mount, and two pieces of glass. After having some problems with my Brevis when I first got it, I posted on the forums (way before I needed to shoot anything with it) and got a response and and offer of a solution form Dennis within 24 hours.
 
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