Embarrassingly novice novice seeking some advice on rig and lenses

A

aneil

New member
Hey guys

I'm planning on making the switchover from pretty basic HD camcorders to the Canon 7D. I'll be using it for low-budget docs (behind the scenes / making-of type stuff) and could do with some serious advice on what kind of set-up a novice such as myself might want to be starting off with. Like I say, I'm not overly knowledgeable when it comes to DSLR terminology etc. so forgive me , because I'm going to sound anywhere from naive to plain stupid in the next few paragraphs..

So, after reading through many articles and threads on here, I've concluded that a 7D would suit my needs better than a 5D. Most UK-based deals include either a Canon EF-S 18-135mm / 18-85mm lens in the price. Considering I'm on a modest budget - and can probably for the time being only afford one more lens on top of this - which would you recommend I got? Bear in mind I'll be shooting plenty of talking-heads but also GVs of film sets etc. so need whichever two lenses I have to be reasonably versatile!

Secondly - and for me, most perplexing - is the issue fof a rig. I read that a rig is obviously enormously helpful for achieving stable, sturdy shots - but would you say it was vital? If so, what is the most basic rig I'm looking at? Watch out, cos here's where I'm going to sound really dumb...Does a mount with rods (such as this
for example) constitute a "rig" as such? Or to fully benefit am I going to have to use something such as this . Basically, I can't afford the latter - or similarly pro-rigs - so I'm a bit concerned about this.

Finally (not really finally, but I'm trying not to be too annoying in my first post) I'm going to be using a Zoom H4n recorder for my sound (as I mentioned, I'll be doing a lot of talking heads). Will I be able to connect this to most basic rigs? So there you go...thanks so much if you managed to read to the end! I know forums such as these are generally designed for more stimulating discussions / queries but I'd really appreciate any help at all. I guess in conclusion what I'm asking for is a) a bit of basic info on lenses and b) direction on whether I need a rig and if so what the * to do. I'm based in the UK and can't really afford anything more than £150 - 200 on top of the camera and lenses etc. ..Thanks again everyone and looking forward to hearing from you.
 
aneil said:
Hey guys
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Hi!

aneil said:
I'm planning on making the switchover from pretty basic HD camcorders to the Canon 7D. I'll be using it for low-budget docs (behind the scenes / making-of type stuff) and could do with some serious advice on what kind of set-up a novice such as myself might want to be starting off with. Like I say, I'm not overly knowledgeable when it comes to DSLR terminology etc. so forgive me , because I'm going to sound anywhere from naive to plain stupid in the next few paragraphs..
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Lemme just start here by saying thank you for including what you'll likely be shooting - this is possibly the most essential thing that people seem to neglect mentioning!

Don't be worried that you're a novice, with the right attitude and enough practice you'll be shooting with the best of them.

aneil said:
So, after reading through many articles and threads on here, I've concluded that a 7D would suit my needs better than a 5D. Most UK-based deals include either a Canon EF-S 18-135mm / 18-85mm lens in the price. Considering I'm on a modest budget - and can probably for the time being only afford one more lens on top of this - which would you recommend I got? Bear in mind I'll be shooting plenty of talking-heads but also GVs of film sets etc. so need whichever two lenses I have to be reasonably versatile!
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The kit lenses are good, especially for what you need them for (incredible versatility). An important thing to mention about these lenses are that they are not a constant aperture throughout their zoom range; this means that if you're shooting as wide open as the lens will go, you'll notice that the image will become darker at a certain point during a zoom. For stills this wouldn't be as much of a problem, but with video this can create a very obvious and very ugly effect during your video - you'll need to be conscious of this fact whilst recording.

Both lenses start at 18mm at their widest, which should be wide enough for what you will be using it for. Since they cover such a wide range, it would be unnecessary for you to add another zoom with similar ranges, so you should be looking at either a VERY wide zoom (see the Tokina 11-16mm f2.8) or VERY fast primes (see the Canon 50mm f1.4 or the Sigma 30mm f1.4). I would personally suggest you go for the primes as these are fantastic for interviews, the 30mm being as close to a normal field of view as the human eye that you can get on the 7D, which is very aesthetically pleasing.

aneil said:
Secondly - and for me, most perplexing - is the issue fof a rig. I read that a rig is obviously enormously helpful for achieving stable, sturdy shots - but would you say it was vital? If so, what is the most basic rig I'm looking at? Watch out, cos here's where I'm going to sound really dumb...Does a mount with rods (such as this
for example) constitute a "rig" as such? Or to fully benefit am I going to have to use something such as this . Basically, I can't afford the latter - or similarly pro-rigs - so I'm a bit concerned about this.
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The rig will make a difference to the steadiness of your shots, but so too will a light weight tripod and head, and the image stabilisation on your lens. If you can't afford a rig right now it isn't the end of the world, you'll still be able to shoot somewhat run and gun, you'll just need to be more conscious of your shakiness to remedy the problem.

aneil said:
Finally (not really finally, but I'm trying not to be too annoying in my first post) I'm going to be using a Zoom H4n recorder for my sound (as I mentioned, I'll be doing a lot of talking heads). Will I be able to connect this to most basic rigs?
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Yes, you can buy hotshoe mount to 1/4' screw threads on ebay, and a trip into any local majour camera shop (such as Calumet) will reveal a plethora of rigging gear to attach stuff to the hotshoe on the top of the camera. Don't be worried about applying too much weight to the hotshoe, it'll stand up to a lot before breaking.

If you can't afford it right now, don't buy one right now. Practice with hand held, and then decide if you want to buy a big expensive rig. It's not really for me to say what the best and worst rigs are in a single post, there have been many attempts. I'm sure as you stick around and read more about DSLRs you'll find an almost infinite amount of different rigs and companies producing them for even lower prices. Just remember - if it looks cheap and like it'll break easily, it likely will...

aneil said:
So there you go...thanks so much if you managed to read to the end! I know forums such as these are generally designed for more stimulating discussions / queries but I'd really appreciate any help at all.
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No worries, thanks for posting and being clear about what you want to do! I hope my advice is useful to you.
 
Calomile, thanks so much for being so understanding about my novice-ness and offering so much help..and so promptly! Very kind indeed...

With reference to your comments on getting stable shots, do you mean that using the camera with a decent head attached but not a tripod would be a good technique for achieving more stable handheld shots?

Also, are you able to recommend a decent budget to mid-range tripod for shooting video no the 7D?

Again, thanks for not chasing me out of town...your help is much appreciated.
 
What I meant was that for absolute stability you cannot beat a tripod and fluid head. It could be a bit unwieldy running around with a large fluid head attached to the bottom of your camera :P

I have a Manfrotto 501HDV fluid head which I really rate, it's a bit expensive perhaps, but the quality of the build and the operation (smoothness of pans and tilts etc.) is really great. The legs are of lesser importance (I have some very old Manfrotto legs that are built like a brick **** house, and weigh about the same...), but just make sure that whatever you get the head will mount onto it, and it's rated for at least 10kg of weight.
 
You may also consider going with the t2i instead of the 7d as you can get video quality that is very very close for just over half the cost of the 7d. You could use the extra money to buy better support equipment etc. I think overall the lenses, tripod, sound equipmnet etc are going to make more difference (and be more useful down the road when you upgrade bodies again) to your final than 7d vs t2i. If you need the better still capabilities of the 7d or weather sealing, than that is another matter.

Reccommended kit.
T2i body only
tamron 18-50 2.8 VC
canon 85mm 1.8
canon 50mm 1.8 (get the 1.4 if you can afford it as it has a usuable focus ring)
Good fluid head tripod
Good microphones, mixer, headphones, recorder slate etc. I think this is the most neglected part of people's kits. Your audio kit should cost about equal to your camera and possibly your lenses too. (see audio section of this forum... Everyone always blows their money on camera then adds sound as an afterthought)
possibly a fig rig for handheld vs an expensive rail system (unless you still have extra money)

if you still have money think of adding the canon 28mm f1.8 and after that the tokina 11-16 f2.8
 
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Oh ya, you need a zfinder! Put that up high on the list! Possibly a monitor too.
I should mention that these are suggestions that you should do more research on each component. As said in the earlier responses, This will be completely dependant on what you are shooting and what style. Heck, a video camera may be a much better foit for your shoot!
 
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Calomile and Saneproductions, sincere thanks for all your advice - it's really good of you to spare the time and chip in. There's a lot to take in but this has been enormously helpful.

I think in conclusion I need to invest in an extra lens, a decent viewfinder, and a good tripod with fluid head. Then further down the line I can look at the big boy stuff...monitors, rigs etc.

By the way, can I anybody tell me what legs I can use the Manfrotto 501HDV fluid head with? I want to get a decent head but preferably not spend the earth on the legs...

would the Manfrotto 190XPROB legs suffice?

Cheers again, Aneil
 
+1 what saneproductions said.

I'd say get the T2i instead. That'll leave quite a bit of money for more stabilization, which is absolutely essential.
 
^^^ WTS^^^

The 600 quid difference in price would buy a lot of stabilisation and / or a Lilliput monitor and / or another lens (Check out Ffordes for S/H manual lenses)
Dave
 
I am not sure about legs for the 501. I run a DV6SB with miller solo CF legs and I love them. Much much more exepnsive, but possible someday option.

Good luck!
 
Thanks for the suggestions - really starting to consider the 550D now. How does the autofocus compare with the 7D in video mode?

The nature of the jobs will mean lots of running around - capturing crews shooting big set-ups etc. and if I'm going to invest in a Glidecam or some other decent rig, I'll want to know the AF is going to manage right?
 
The only use for Auto Focus in video mode is to help in focusing a shot before startng to record. Once you are recording you will need to manually focus as AF will disrupt the shot and is meant to work in still mode and not while recording video.

This is one of the reasons people site the DSLRs as more of a still camera and not so good at what camcorders do. With some practice and a little skill with optimal lenses, you will overcome and get good shots. You might even consider a follow focus attachment to make focusing a bit easier.
 
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Thanks John. I've heard that a wide angle autofocus lens such as the Canon EF 28mm f/1.8 USM can work well with this style of work? Would that help, or do I still essentially just need to give manual focus time and patience
 
Unfortunately, with the current line of Canon DSLRs, you will need to adjust focus manually while video is being recorded.

What happens if you try to autofocus, is the focus and exposure will drastically change as it hunts for the correct setting (just as a still camera does before locking in) thus ruining the portion of the shot where the lens is trying to auto focus
 
Gotcha, thanks man. Out of curiousity, what's your two cents worth on the 550D / 7D debate?

The idea of getting the 550D and being able to afford a Glidecam, maybe even a monitor is definitely tempting. But the whole idea of switching over to a DSLR is ultimately to achieve better picture results, so I wouldn't want to sacrifice that. People do seem in agreement though that the 550D would as good a job?
 
If you are going for video as the main reason for purchase, I would recommend you do what i did and get the T2i (550D) with a battery grip.

Even still picture quality is on par between the two cameras. The main differences are in burst rate for rapid stills and build quality for rough weather conditions. I agree, the extra money saved by going with the T2i will come in handy for getting accessories.
 
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