EF vs RF

[scorsesefan]

Just picked up a c70 with the 0.71 speed booster and I’m trying to decide between RF and EF zooms. I know I’m limited to RF without the speed booster but is it worth it to sacrifice FOV for AF speed and accuracy? Looking at the RF 24-105 and EF 24-105 (which I’ve owned before) and possibly a wide zoom like a 16-35. I already own a sigma 18-35 for which I have to pick up the non-speed booster adapter…

 

[NorBro]

Normally I personally would always say you really want to go natively, but the C70 isn't Canon's best AF camera so I think it's okay to go EF, especially if you can find a good deal (definitely by now) for the 24-105 EF (knowing also the kind of doc r&g op you might be).

The times you really don't want to sacrifice AF speed and accuracy is when you got their greatest AF like the R5, R6, R3, etc. and shooting super wide open f/1.4 and f/1.8...then it's the beautiful RF primes all the way.

And I got a 24mm f/1.8 IS waiting for you when you're ready. lol

 

[IronFilm]

I'd also encourage you to consider long term.

Canon isn't top dog any longer like they were with the 5Dmk2 / 5Dmk3 / C100 / C300mk1 days.

What if your next camera is "a Sony FX6mk2"?
What if you one day go with "a Blackmagic Pyxis Pro"?
Or perhaps even "a RED Nikon Komodo X2"???

Making Canon's situation even worse, they've stupidly decided that RF will be a lockdown mount, no 3rd Parties allowed. So the future is not looking good I feel.

Plus, DSLR lenses are selling very cheap these days if you don't mind looking at older secondhand models.

Perhaps pair your Sigma 18-35mm with a Sigma 50-100mm? Plus a Tokina 11-20mm, the "Holy Trinity" of APS-C DSLR zooms!

Or perhaps also a secondhand Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8-4 EF lens for when you need greater reach/range during fast paced shooting. Or a 24-105mm f4 EF lens.

These are so cheap, you could even have money left over for some PL Mount zooms/primes, seeing as how they've become very affordable lately as well.

 

[DustinSchmidt]

I'd also encourage you to consider long term.

Canon isn't top dog any longer like they were with the 5Dmk2 / 5Dmk3 / C100 / C300mk1 days.

What if your next camera is "a Sony FX6mk2"?
What if you one day go with "a Blackmagic Pyxis Pro"?
Or perhaps even "a RED Nikon Komodo X2"???

Making Canon's situation even worse, they've stupidly decided that RF will be a lockdown mount, no 3rd Parties allowed. So the future is not looking good I feel.

Plus, DSLR lenses are selling very cheap these days if you don't mind looking at older secondhand models.

Perhaps pair your Sigma 18-35mm with a Sigma 50-100mm? Plus a Tokina 11-20mm, the "Holy Trinity" of APS-C DSLR zooms!

Or perhaps also a secondhand Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8-4 EF lens for when you need greater reach/range during fast paced shooting. Or a 24-105mm f4 EF lens.

These are so cheap, you could even have money left over for some PL Mount zooms/primes, seeing as how they've become very affordable lately as well.

There's definitely a lot of bargains to be had if you're willing to go EF mount. And the adaptability of that mount is a real bonus in my opinion.

If you're using EF mount lenses on RF mount bodies I've found almost no discernible difference in the AF capabilities vs. the native RF mount. It really does depend on the lens though. Some of the lenses that were slower to focus on EF mount bodies will still be slower to focus on the RF mount. But the communication via an RF to EF adapter is seamless.

I will say though, whoever is top dog now is almost certain to not be top dog for long. These brands tend to go in and out of fashion it seems.

 

[scorsesefan]

I'd also encourage you to consider long term.

Canon isn't top dog any longer like they were with the 5Dmk2 / 5Dmk3 / C100 / C300mk1 days.

What if your next camera is "a Sony FX6mk2"?
What if you one day go with "a Blackmagic Pyxis Pro"?
Or perhaps even "a RED Nikon Komodo X2"???

Making Canon's situation even worse, they've stupidly decided that RF will be a lockdown mount, no 3rd Parties allowed. So the future is not looking good I feel.

Plus, DSLR lenses are selling very cheap these days if you don't mind looking at older secondhand models.

Perhaps pair your Sigma 18-35mm with a Sigma 50-100mm? Plus a Tokina 11-20mm, the "Holy Trinity" of APS-C DSLR zooms!

Or perhaps also a secondhand Sigma 17-70mm f/2.8-4 EF lens for when you need greater reach/range during fast paced shooting. Or a 24-105mm f4 EF lens.

These are so cheap, you could even have money left over for some PL Mount zooms/primes, seeing as how they've become very affordable lately as well.

Thanks, the sigma idea is tempting but I would like to utilize the speedbooster I picked up.

 

[scorsesefan]

There's definitely a lot of bargains to be had if you're willing to go EF mount. And the adaptability of that mount is a real bonus in my opinion.

If you're using EF mount lenses on RF mount bodies I've found almost no discernible difference in the AF capabilities vs. the native RF mount. It really does depend on the lens though. Some of the lenses that were slower to focus on EF mount bodies will still be slower to focus on the RF mount. But the communication via an RF to EF adapter is seamless.

I will say though, whoever is top dog now is almost certain to not be top dog for long. These brands tend to go in and out of fashion it seems.

Thanks, Dustin. Do you have any recommendations on better performing EF glass? I was thinking of the 24-105 either v1 or v2 and maybe a 70-200 f4 or 2.8… I’ve only had the c70 a few days and one thing I’m noticing is how much less responsive the AF is compared to my fx6/3 especially in low light, which I guess I expected…

 

[NorBro]

FWIW, watch videos on YouTube...I always used to do this, you learn a lot including how noisy some are.

There are also other strong points for RF glass such as the extra IS you may get and the control ring (so nice, couldn't live without one if I were still filming a lot but there's an EF adapter with one too).

 

[scorsesefan]

FWIW, watch videos on YouTube...I always used to do this, you learn a lot including how noisy some are.

There are also other strong points for RF glass such as the extra IS you may get and the control ring (so nice, couldn't live without one if I were still filming a lot but there's an EF adapter with one too).

The latest Canon cinema camera announcement got me thinking that if I decide to stay in the Canon ecosystem in the future would RF glass be a better investment? Will Canon even support the EF-RF speedboosters in future bodies...

 

[NorBro]

It's all relative; yeah, RF would probably be a better investment in the long run because it's the newest stuff, but at the same time they are just lenses and you could likely use lenses from the 70s in your work if you really, really had to.

Speedboosters, I see them eventually disappearing when EF is completely phased out.

 

[Jim Feeley]

I have a C70 and mostly like it. Love the image, less love for a few other aspects. But really, I think things are better. Some rambling thoughts:

To your question: I have an EF 24-105 mkII an have rented an RF 24-105. I like the RF version better, but I do l like the wider angle o the EF 24-105 with a speed booster. Looks pretty good, and is useful. I really like the RF 15-35 f2.8 and like the image a lot, though I wish it was longer. I'd really like a good RF15-55 f2.8 or so... I could roll though many days with just such a lens.

But if Sigma announces something that fits my needs, I'll probably seriously consider it (I have a couple Sigma lenses... the EF 18-35 and 24mm Art and like them both).

The more-recent firmware updates improve AF. Still struggles a bit in lower-light and lower-contrast situations (skin tones against wood workshops, for example). But with the right settings (uh, standard, eye tracking, face priority, etc), it's pretty good. And I can flip to manual focus when I need to (which I do sometimes). Check out Sound It Out Films.

About the RF mount:
I really like my Canon RF zooms (I have the f2.8 "holy trinity"). Not cheap, but nice glass. I wish my first-gen 70-200L didn't telescope, but that's more of an aesthetic issue than an image quality issue. And the rumored upcoming 70-200 will be internal zoom.

I've been really bummed that Canon limited third-party RF-mount lenses to fully manual, but that is finally starting to change. Tamron and Sigma have announced RF-mount AF lenses, though I think the first batch are APS-C and not FF. And my EF-RF and PL-RF adapters work fairly well. So I'm getting by.

But I'm not super worried about the resale value of RF lenses. Canon tends to stick with a lens mount for a long time (IIRC, FD and New FD for about 20 years, EF 30+, RF eighish so far) so if my next camera isn't from Canon, there will most likely be a lot of still photographers using RF-mount cameras and I should be able to find a home for them.

As for using/tweaking the C70, two pretty good YouTube channels for C70 info are Sound It Out Films and Griffin Conway . I don't always agree with them, but I've found some useful info.

Hopefully, next week's announcement of a new Cinema EOS will give us all some clarity (with the next burst of clarity coming in Sept or so around IBC time)... Then we'll know how much attention we need to pay to what Sony does next.

 

[scorsesefan]

I have a C70 and mostly like it. Love the image, less love for a few other aspects. But really, I think things are better. Some rambling thoughts:

To your question: I have an EF 24-105 mkII an have rented an RF 24-105. I like the RF version better, but I do l like the wider angle o the EF 24-105 with a speed booster. Looks pretty good, and is useful. I really like the RF 15-35 f2.8 and like the image a lot, though I wish it was longer. I'd really like a good RF15-55 f2.8 or so... I could roll though many days with just such a lens.

But if Sigma announces something that fits my needs, I'll probably seriously consider it (I have a couple Sigma lenses... the EF 18-35 and 24mm Art and like them both).

The more-recent firmware updates improve AF. Still struggles a bit in lower-light and lower-contrast situations (skin tones against wood workshops, for example). But with the right settings (uh, standard, eye tracking, face priority, etc), it's pretty good. And I can flip to manual focus when I need to (which I do sometimes). Check out Sound It Out Films.

About the RF mount:
I really like my Canon RF zooms (I have the f2.8 "holy trinity"). Not cheap, but nice glass. I wish my first-gen 70-200L didn't telescope, but that's more of an aesthetic issue than an image quality issue. And the rumored upcoming 70-200 will be internal zoom.

I've been really bummed that Canon limited third-party RF-mount lenses to fully manual, but that is finally starting to change. Tamron and Sigma have announced RF-mount AF lenses, though I think the first batch are APS-C and not FF. And my EF-RF and PL-RF adapters work fairly well. So I'm getting by.

But I'm not super worried about the resale value of RF lenses. Canon tends to stick with a lens mount for a long time (IIRC, FD and New FD for about 20 years, EF 30+, RF eighish so far) so if my next camera isn't from Canon, there will most likely be a lot of still photographers using RF-mount cameras and I should be able to find a home for them.

As for using/tweaking the C70, two pretty good YouTube channels for C70 info are Sound It Out Films and Griffin Conway . I don't always agree with them, but I've found some useful info.

Hopefully, next week's announcement of a new Cinema EOS will give us all some clarity (with the next burst of clarity coming in Sept or so around IBC time)... Then we'll know how much attention we need to pay to what Sony does next.

Thanks, Jim. I just ordered the 24-105 RF. I just couldn’t bring myself to buy another 24-105 EF (I think I’ve had 3 over the years … I’m hoping that it’s wide enough to do some doc work. I have a sigma 18-35, but that’s a cropped lens, too. Can you recommend a fairly wide EF zoom that would be good for run n gun?

 

[QuickHitRecord]

I haven't tried the 24-105 RF but I have used the EF 24-105 f/4 ii with the speedbooster on my C70 for doc work for my first 2+ years with the camera and I really don't have any complaints about that combination. For run and gun, that would still be my first choice, even though I also have the RF 24-70 f2.8 and RF 70-200 f4.

For interviews, etc, the Sigma Art EF primes represent an amazing value.

 

[IronFilm]

Thanks, the sigma idea is tempting but I would like to utilize the speedbooster I picked up.

In general though it's better to not use a focal reducer, if you don't need it. As otherwise that's just adding in extra unnecessary glass into the path of the light.

The latest Canon cinema camera announcement got me thinking that if I decide to stay in the Canon ecosystem in the future would RF glass be a better investment? Will Canon even support the EF-RF speedboosters in future bodies...

Unless they also kill all "support" for also every single adapter ever, then no, speedboosters will never become useless.
Because for Canon to do this would be:
1) borderline technically impossible
2) suicidal of their brand

But I'm not super worried about the resale value of RF lenses. Canon tends to stick with a lens mount for a long time (IIRC, FD and New FD for about 20 years, EF 30+, RF eighish so far)

The EF-M mount didn't last long....

 

[NorBro]

Always thought the same about SBs and light/artifacts...although I tested one once I ultimately couldn't bring myself to using it.

 

[Jim Feeley]

The EF-M mount didn't last long....

Ya there's that. But didn't regular EF lenses fit on that mount? And it was so clearly mutant/consumer from the get go. So for mainstream mounts on Canon's semipro to pro cameras, there's some likely longevity.

 

[Jim Feeley]

Thanks, Jim. I just ordered the 24-105 RF. I just couldn’t bring myself to buy another 24-105 EF (I think I’ve had 3 over the years … I’m hoping that it’s wide enough to do some doc work. I have a sigma 18-35, but that’s a cropped lens, too. Can you recommend a fairly wide EF zoom that would be good for run n gun?

I hear you on the EF 24-105. For your RF 24-105, did you order the f4 or the f2.8 version? Either way, let us know how it works out for you.

As for a wide EF Zoom suggestion, I don't have on. :-(

 

[drummondb]

I own 2 C70s, and I've kept the Canon speed-boosters on about 90% of the time. It's just insane magic to me that I get basically FF FOV and an extra stop of light. I've not really noticed a hit to AF performance.

If money were no object, I would keep the EF plus speed-booster for most shooting. And I would have RF for the times I want the crop, or need the actual pinnacle of AF performance (though again, not sure there actually is any AF difference). And of course for future use with future RF cameras.

And of course, I also use Canon mirrorless cameras, and using EF glass allows you to put the same variable ND filter behind the lenses vs putting a filter on the front of each lens.

Honestly, there are a ton of reasons it makes a lot of sense to use EF glass when shooting video on an RF camera, cinema or mirrorless.

 

[scorsesefan]

I hear you on the EF 24-105. For your RF 24-105, did you order the f4 or the f2.8 version? Either way, let us know how it works out for you.

As for a wide EF Zoom suggestion, I don't have on. :-(

The F4 version. The 2.8 wasn't in my budget...

 

[scorsesefan]

I own 2 C70s, and I've kept the Canon speed-boosters on about 90% of the time. It's just insane magic to me that I get basically FF FOV and an extra stop of light. I've not really noticed a hit to AF performance.

If money were no object, I would keep the EF plus speed-booster for most shooting. And I would have RF for the times I want the crop, or need the actual pinnacle of AF performance (though again, not sure there actually is any AF difference). And of course for future use with future RF cameras.

And of course, I also use Canon mirrorless cameras, and using EF glass allows you to put the same variable ND filter behind the lenses vs putting a filter on the front of each lens.

Honestly, there are a ton of reasons it makes a lot of sense to use EF glass when shooting video on an RF camera, cinema or mirrorless.

Thanks. I was thinking of picking up the Tokina Opera 16-28 EF. Any experience with that one?

 

[Jim Feeley]

The F4 version. The 2.8 wasn't in my budget...

Ya, I hear you.