Editing w/ the Rebel T2i...

J

jdv

Well-known member
How easy/hard will it be? I currently shoot with a JVC 100, and the work-around digitizing I must do to make HDV work drives me mad (I have to digitize w/ Vegas, then import it into Premiere, then render out the footage).

Bottom line is this - I use CS3 - can I shoot and digitize then edit in one simple process, or will there be some crazy work-around needed?

Thanks for any help in this (as it's the only thing keeping me from ordering one right now).

john
 
if its h264 like the 7D is you will likely have to batch convert your files first (i usually do to avi), you can just set it and let it convert then come back after your lunch break or whatever and start editing.

Thats what i have been doing. Not quite as easy as drag drop, edit like my D90 was, but the jump in quality of the 7D is worth it.
 
It could be trivially easy -- you drag the files from the card onto your timeline. The question is whether your computer is fast enough to handle native h.264 editing. Most aren't.

However, if you upgrade to CS4.2, it's better, and CS5 (with an nVidia CUDA-enabled graphics card) should make it effortless.
 
...But Premiere will "see" it, correct? Premiere won't even look at my JVC footage when I go to digitize it.

I've nothing but bad about CS4 - a few editors I know have spent a whole day uninstalling it and going back to CS3. I'm sure it'll get fixed eventually... but I'm not taking that risk right now.

Thanks again guys!

john
 
oh yeah vegas can see the footage just fine, its hard to edit because it acts like the files are like super huge cause of the compression of h264. You could theoretically edit like that though (and as above said if you have a faster computer its a non-issue)
 
Editing with h264 or any other long gop codec is a bad idea.
Even with perfectly fast powerful machine you are likely to get artefacts on crossfades
and they may not show up until a few transocdes later. Do it at your own risk.

I recommend that you transcode to any i-frame codec first
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_compression_picture_types

I edit on a mac platform. Prores is fine. Prores HQ is not necessary because these h264 files
are only 8 bit. (unless you are planning on compositing)
 
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I have an iMac 2.0 gb ram with duo core processors at 3.08 ghz and a 512mb video card.

It handles h.264 ok - it's sticky and take a while to render, but it's not crippling and totally doable.
 
I've written about this before, here is my last post on editing with h264
J Davis said:
Hi cjwolff,

H264 is a long gop (group of pictures) codec which is a really bad codec to edit with because compression happens between the frames. First you have an i-frame which is a real frame of pixels and subsequent frames (know as B and P frames) are text based data that records changes to the initial frame. As you can see this becomes a nightmare when it comes to editing.

On a mac you should transcode to prores or any i-frame codec where every frame is a real frame. If you use premiere not FCP download prores codecs for quicktime and use mpeg streamclip (freeware) to transcode. Transcoding to prores HQ will not gain you anything over the regular prores because h264 capture is 8bit.

Some may argue that you just need a processor that is fast enough - NOT TRUE. Any transition edits that you do involving time like cross fades will start to show artifacts. These errors may not manifest themselves initially but may show up at a later date when the file is transcoded again. A perfect example of this is youtube and vimeo. Try doing a crossfade on a timeline where h264 is your editing codec then upload your export to the web. Youtube and vimeo transcode again and you might see big nasty green macro blocs appear or worse.

I have written about this before and others have shouted me down about calling B and P frames 'text data'. My source for using this phrase is estemed guru Larry Jordan (link).
Click to expand...
 
jdv said:
So that's a strike against the T2i, no?

john
Click to expand...

as compared to what ... the 7D? no same codec
as compared to GH1? no, easier to handle in post

try to stop worrying about the codec and get the best cam you can afford and go out and shoot
because before you know it someone will come along with a flip mino and make a great movie full of character
 
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Just shot full length feature w/ the JVC - having to digitize 35 tapes in one program, then bring into another is a massive pain. So I guess opposed to the EX-1 or any other sub $10 K camera that shoots 24p HD footage.

I'll like to know if I can avoid this massive pain in the ass (one that requires me to have my editor come in for, b/c I can't work Vegas).

john
 
Well, again, you've got two choices:
1) convert the footage, which you can do in a batch process in Neo Scene or whatever, or
2) upgrade to CS5 and edit native.

Either way should be much simpler than the process you're going through now.
 
jdv said:
...

I've nothing but bad about CS4 - a few editors I know have spent a whole day uninstalling it and going back to CS3. I'm sure it'll get fixed eventually... but I'm not taking that risk right now.

Thanks again guys!

john
Click to expand...

I just finished an EX3 project in CS4 on an i7. Smooth as butter out of the camera not rendered on the timeline. I exported a final edit to uncompressed Quicktime at 12 gigs per minute. The uncompressed files worked well on the timeline as well. I'm sure the H-264 footage will be a bit tougher than EX3 files, but this a all a good indication how well the i7 can work with CS4. My system now only has 3 gigs of memory but can hold up to 24gigs. Looking forward to giving the 550D footage a run soon. Either edit original files or convert to huge uncompressed files, it really doesn't matter, there are many roads to Rome these days.
 
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You can transcode the avchd into any # of codecs with Mpeg Streamclip Pro. It's a free application. Works for me.

This 550D looks like a real game changer!

cheers
JohnG
 
ROCKMORE said:
I just finished an EX3 project in CS4 on an i7. Smooth as butter out of the camera not rendered on the timeline. I exported a final edit to uncompressed Quicktime at 12 gigs per minute. The uncompressed files worked well on the timeline as well. I'm sure the H-264 footage will be a bit tougher than EX3 files, but this a all a good indication how well the i7 can work with CS4. My system now only has 3 gigs of memory but can hold up to 24gigs. Looking forward to giving the 550D footage a run soon. Either edit original files or convert to huge uncompressed files, it really doesn't matter, there are many roads to Rome these days.
Click to expand...

What do you mean right out of the camera? You don't use the clip browser software or transcode in Premiere (log and transfer in FCP)?

Of course the uncompressed files are going to work well. They're uncompressed.

As for the topic at hand, it's best to just convert the H.264 stuff to prores or something else easy to work with. The time it takes to convert the footage is worth it compared to the headaches of working with H.264 in any NLE.
 
Sorry if I'm a bit new to digital video workflow but what is the point of log and transfer with file based footage? Whats wrong with copying off the card and then file > import into the NLE?
 
handsome pete said:
What do you mean right out of the camera?

.
Click to expand...

I dragged the EX3 / MP4 files to the timeline and edited them as they came off the Sony memory card with the exception of copying the files and taking them out of the folders to import them easier in groups. I edited them without rendering, even with blowing up the 720 slow motion clips to 1080, and applying multiple color corrections.
The uncompressed files are a lot tougher though. At 12 gigs per minute that's a lot of data for a small computer to read with or without rendering. Maybe more ram will help.
Looking forward to adding more memory. I only have 3 gig right now, but can top out at 24. Not bad for a PC that only costs $1,250usd to build.
 
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but what is the point of log and transfer with file based footage
Click to expand...
That is an excellent question.

Whats wrong with copying off the card and then file > import into the NLE?
Click to expand...
There's nothing wrong with it, it's just that certain editors (well, one in particular) prevent you from doing that.

Now, the other side of the coin is that long-GoP footage isn't necessarily the smoothest editing experience today. Give it a year, especially with EDIUS sorting out the AVCHD Booster and Premiere implementing their "Mercury" playback engine, and any other workflow is just going to look silly. Shoot footage, plug in the card, edit. No ingesting or file conversion or any of that stuff necessary.
 
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