F3: Ebay Scam or Price Drop?

starcentral said:
Well the obvious is 4k raw, but otherwise it's a really good point you make. Upon shipping the F5 will only let you shoot: 4k raw, XAVC 10-bit 1-60p, MPEG 422 30p/60i... and that's it.

From that point forward only the firmware updates being released throughout 2013 will unleash: 2k RAW, 2k XAVC, SR codec, and HFR (over 60p up to 120p/180p) and not to start any rumours but the release schedule is pretty spread throughout the 2013 from what I've been told.

Now looking at it from this perspective along with the current volatility in the market I'm not sure it makes any sense to jump on board an F5 that might not be fully functional until the end of the year. That's a hell of a lot of depreciation to incur just to be an early adopter, and for what, 4k raw?

Hm you got me thinking Adam, you got me thinking... :huh:
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And for 4K you have to dump another 5 grand on the recorder right?
 
Yep,

$16500 for F5
$5300 for AXS recorder
$550 for card reader
And you still need a monitor or VF for the camera ~ $3000/$4900 depending on what you go with, plus media, & fancy power.
 
I am not jumping onto the F5 bandwagon now but I do see a few reasons to do so. As irrelevant as it may sound, the F5 lowers the weight and bulk of the rig. The F3+Zacuto EVF+Pix240+Anton Bauer on rear cheeseplate is a lot of bulk. F5 XAVC would be adequate internal 1080 codec for me so it's ditch the Pix. Even with a V-mount to AB adapter, it is still less bulky than a battery hanging off rods on the rear of the camera. In other words, my primary benefits would be ergonomic. That would be $10-12K for ergonomics and I could hire a lot of shleppers for that kind of money.

I can't even say at this point that the F5 would bring in any more in rentals than the F3.

If I had the business to justify investing in the F55+recorder, that camera represents a sufficient leap from the F3.

Actually, for 4K you have to add $5300 street for recorder + $1800 street per 512gb media + $800 or so for reader. And a monitor on which to view 4K if you post your own work.

The PowerBall Jackpot this week is $151 million.

For many of us here (not all of us as we certainly have some F55-level shooters on the board), the best investment now might be a fire sale F3!

Ned
 
I really wish I had the extra funds for a fire sale F3 at the moment, quite a lot of the work I do would benefit from dual-camera setups.
 
FS700 will not work with AJA KiPro Quad for 4K. The 4K solution for FS700 is via the interface box to the AXS-5.

Ned
 
nsoltz said:
FS700 will not work with AJA KiPro Quad for 4K. The 4K solution for FS700 is via the interface box to the AXS-5.

Ned
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Right now AJA can not completely confirm compatibility because Sony hasn't released the firmware that will send 4k via 3G-SDI or provided spec for it, but once it does become available AJA has already expressed in supporting it. It can happen, just not now.


Adamsenoj said:
Well, I think the FS700 is probably going too low. The camera lacks several important features. 4K isn't all.
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Ooops I forgot to add $2000 for the firmware update that enables 4k raw out single 3G-SDI.
So really its ~ $14,000

Feature-wise I'm quite fine with what the FS700 offers. All I need is decent dynamic range, an exposure tool (lacking there a bit for me), the peaking feature and I'm pretty happy. The gammas available on the FS700 are identical to the F3 so a bonus. Unlike most others I actually prefer an LCD over VF so nosy directors and producers can peer over my shoulder if I am operating. (or so I can peer)

All this is FUD of course until Sony releases the firmware and we see some results for ourselves, but I honestly have high hopes should it all become possible. From what we know the FS700 uses a 4k "Exmor" Super 35 CMOS sensor and likely the CFA is similar to the F3 optimized for REC709 color gamut. I also really like the idea of 12-bit raw (linear gamma) since you still get the power of shooting "raw" just with not as much data (16 times less) volumes as you'd have shooting 16-bit raw like on the RED cameras and F5/F55.

Shooting 12-bit raw linear gamma is going to be roughly equivalent of 10-bit LOG gamma (suggested by some articles discussing ARRIRAW) which might put the FS700 12-bit raw on par with an F3 in 10-bit SLOG mode to get a "good grade" out of it.

What was this thread about again? :huh:
 
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hey ned,
yes, loosing the external recorder and therfor a lot of weight is a biiiig thing. ( my right arm can tell you that ...;-) that's another good point that makes the f5/55 so attractive...
and yes, for anyone working on vdslrs etc the used f3 is a tremendous opportunity and bargain now...
it is a great camera unthinkable at this price half a year ago...
 
I also have heard about the possible KiPro Quad compatibility with the FS700 but there are simply too man if's and maybe's even to deal with it.

Ned
 
Adamsenoj said:
While that really looks too good to be true, the reality in the current market as of today is that anything which is not a Canon C-series of a BMCC is going for the price of a couple of bananas. The FS100 is basically "free" already. The F3 is going for the price of two bananas and a tomato. Saw some bodies going for the price of this one (although without the lenses) and even "older" bigger full sized high-end cameras are going for less than a new C300. Lots of REDs, specially Scarlet and RED ONE going for cheap too. It's the market reality we live in today. RED came and kicked the door wide open on the cheapness. Others had to play catch and drop their prices. Then RED releases more updates to sensors than teenagers change their minds about what they want to be when the grow up. So the other manufacturers had to again play catch up and release more frequent updates. The result is quicker depreciation of prior models. We get it cheaper and faster, but we also lose more money on the sale later. Can't have it both ways. And it will only get worse, much worse.
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Ha, not sure why you exempt BMCC's from the 'price of a couple bananas'. The Canon C series,
i understand, but the AF100, FS100, and BMCC are all in the 3-4K range. Lots of cheap
options out there. It sucks when you want to sell and 'move up'. I've basically decided
to keep my FS100 as a b cam when I move up. But at least 'moving up' is getting a
lot less expensive.
 
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alaskacameradude said:
Ha, not sure why you exempt BMCC's from the 'price of a couple bananas'. The Canon C series,
i understand, but the AF100, FS100, and BMCC are all in the 3-4K range. Lots of cheap
options out there. It sucks when you want to sell and 'move up'. I've basically decided
to keep my FS100 as a b cam when I move up. But at least 'moving up' is getting a
lot less expensive.
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Because if you have a BMCC now and put it up on Ebay it will fetch much more than it's MSRP. Also, the banana reference is not about MSRP. It's about 2nd hand depreciated prices. The F3 was never cheap but it has fallen so much. The FS100 can already be had for like 2 grand.
 
On another note, the rental price of the F3 has dropped accordingly. You can rent an F3 for £100 a day now. That's lower than an EX3.
 
Guys, buy those used F3's now while you can... the new F's will not be fully functional in feature set until around September and even later for 4k S&Q functions, LUTS,

The F3 may very well be back from the dead!
 
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