DVX200 vs GH5 vs ????

Strick9

New member
This is going to be a long, rambling post...

I play in two different sandboxes, each requiring a completely different type of approach:

Filming crazy stuff on the streets, such as protests, riots, fights/brawls, police scenes, sort of like a news stringer, but more determined to get a full and complete story. Legacy media is limited to a 2 minute report of a 2 hour event, and it has to fit between traffic and weather, whereas YouTube is unlimited, and blogs can embed however many videos they want. This is a distinct advantage for me and a very niche market that I've carved out for myself. For these things I like to use cheap cameras, such as Sony Handycams. I like the Sonys because they seem to have the longest lasting batteries (FV70 battery lasts over 5 hours). I will very soon be updating to something with the internal multi axis physical stabilization. Sony calls theirs the Balanced Optical Steadyshot. I'm sure other companies call it different things. So, the question is, is there any camera like this that's small and cheap that can broadcast wifi to YouTube through a cell phone or other wifi connection? I would really like to livestream some of these events. I am aware of the Cerevo Live Shell, and that's what I'll probably end up with, but if I can eliminate a point of potential failure in the signal chain, I would like to do that. I do NOT want to bring anything over $1000 to these types of events, nor anything that's big and bulky or that requires a lot of attention (ruling out DLSRs completely). I'm less concerned about image quality, and more concerned about the content of what is happening. I don't get to frame the shot or try different takes, and everything needs to be in focus.

The other sandbox that I'm starting to play in is more formal video production. Weddings, high quality web videos, business ads, possibly TV commercials, product demonstrations, kickstarter projects, and what I really want to do is make affordable videos for low budget political candidates whom I agree with, to help them have a stronger online presence (Facebook, Twitter, YouTube...). For these, of course, I would often times have the chance to frame the shot and try multiple takes, and image quality would be equally important to content. I don't have much intention in working on films, but I would like that to be an option and wouldn't mind working on that sort of thing from time to time.

For the latter, I have been using a GH3 for the past year. I REALLY LIKE the feel of the imagery of this camera. I am looking to make a substantial upgrade in the near future, and that has me looking at the DVX200 and the GH5. Is the DVX200 already discontinued? It is no longer listed on the Panasonic webpage. As I understand it, the DVX200 is essentially the GH4 guts put into what looks like a more traditional camera, with the ergonomic functions of such. I would also consider offerings from Sony and Canon, but the sensors seems to be smaller, as is the case with the HX1 and HX1000. Not sure if I can afford something like the URSA or Super 35.

Why doesn't anyone stuff a full frame sensor into a camcorder?


I want something that's closer to the beginning of its life cycle than the end. Future-proofing is something I am putting high value on. 4K is a MUST HAVE, both cinema and UHD. I want something that will still be relevant in 5 years. I have little intention on taking this high end camera to film riots, as it's too expensive, too big, too heavy.

Do clients perceive proper video cameras as being more professional than someone who shows up with a DSLR or something similar? Do they look at the GH4 or 5D IV and think "Well, that looks just like the camera that my 19 year old kid has. Is this an actual professional videographer?" or are they becoming more and more accepting of such as these cameras become more and more common on video shoots? I imagine the GH5 would look more serious when peripherals are added (cage, steadycam/stabilizer of some sort, XLR ports, microphone, external monitor....) If I show up with a DVX200 or an XDCam, are they more likely to perceive me as a professional with professional gear?

Going the GH5 route, I already have 3 lenses that will work with, and would likely get a couple more. In either case, I will probably keep the GH3 for B roll. I think it would be more versatile in that regard, but also require more attention. I also would probably take some advantage of the GH5's better still photos, but the GH3 would probably suffice.

Going the DVX200 route, I really like the XLR inputs, as I'll probably buy a nice shotgun mic and a wireless lav or two, and the ability to tap into a signal distro on formal events without needing a bunch of adapters. I also really like the ergonomic layout of a proper camera, with BUTTONS! Damn do I hate flipping through menus on a touchscreen! I WANT BUTTONS AND KNOBS! I also like having the built in ND filters. And I like have the servo based zoom, rather than manual. I imagine the DVX200 has auto focus and can stay focused on an object as it moves around?

As far as price is concerned, I imagine that they will work out to be similar once the GH5 is outfitted properly. If they made a version of the DVX200 with interchangeable MFT lenses that could respond to the electronic or servo zoom, then that would probably seal the deal for me.

I do post production in Premiere and sometimes iMovie, if that matters.

So.... Am I living in a pipe dream with my hopes for getting further in the professional market? If my goals are realistic, then should I go DVX200, GH5, or something from Canon or Sony? (NO JVC)
 
I'm in a similar position where I've been looking really hard at the DVX200 to go alongside my GH4.. I plan on getting the GH5 also for more cinematic shoots but am really drawn to the DVX200 for shooting sporting events etc.. Currently I shoot everything with my GH4 even sports but wanted something more dedicated for sports..
 
If you handhold most of the time the DVX200 will feel heavy. It sounds like you really need two cameras. One for run and gun and one for production. I would say look at the new Panasonic UX180 for run and gun and look at a GH4/5 or Sony FF for your produced stuff. That is if the UX180 is lighter than the DVX200.

As far as "pro" appearance, I would say this is job dependent. If you are showing up on a real set, then yes, you do not want to look like you are a DSLR noob. But outside of that situation I do not think it matters anymore. Run and gun is tough with anything outside of a real camcorder. The modern situation is to have many different cameras for different situations. Gratefully they are pretty affordable these days. I put together a Sony kit with an RX100 IV, RX10 II and an A6300 for the price of one 5D MK III or IV. I can cover a lot with this and it is an augment to my PX270 if needed.
 
I want something that will still be relevant in 5 years...

Everybody wants a "future proof" camera, but looking at how things have changed over the past 5 - 10 years, it's obvious that "future proof" just isn't possible.

Personally I would be looking at the GH5 for higher quality projects and the Panasonic UX180 for "bread'n'butter" projects and live events. Each camera has it's pros and cons, and combined these two cameras should cover just about any type video production work.
 
From some of the reviews I've read and the footage I've seen, the JVC LS300 could be an option.

(I know you didn't want a JVC but I suggest it as a possible solution to others who have similar needs to your own.)

Be well.

Rob
smalltalk.productions
 
Thanks for the replies! I wasn't expecting this many so quickly (especially from Barry Green)!

I don't understand why a lens would have to so big for a full frame camcorder. How do the 5D and 1D get away with it using normal lenses?

Again, I usually use small consumer grade cameras for the crazy stuff on the streets. No way am I taking a $4000 rig into a riot. However, I can see me using this camera for more subdued live event stuff, such as legislator or county commission type meetings.

This DVX200 or GH5 rig would not be hand held very often. I imagine it would usually be on a tripod, slider, or some kind of stabilizer, and used for pro shoots where I can set up the shot. I don't anticipate extended periods of time where I'm holding it.

UX180 has a smaller sensor, and I don't see a 120 FPS setting. I can see situations where I'll want to do slow mo, so I really want 120. According to the preliminary specs on the GH5, it looks like that doesn't even do 120. I guess the only other thing that could be suitable is the Sony Z150, but again, smaller sensor. The max aperture of f2.8 looks quite nice for a zoom lens, on both the DVX200 and Z150.

It sounds more and more like I'm going to get the DVX200.
 
I don't understand why a lens would have to so big for a full frame camcorder. How do the 5D and 1D get away with it using normal lenses?
Because the 5D and 1D don't have 13x zoom lenses. Look at your normal 5D lens, it's maybe a 2:1 or 3:1 zoom range at most.

UX180 has a smaller sensor, and I don't see a 120 FPS setting. I can see situations where I'll want to do slow mo, so I really want 120.
The UX180 does have 120fps.
 
... I don't understand why a lens would have to so big for a full frame camcorder. How do the 5D and 1D get away with it using normal lenses? ...
They "get away" with it by making you buy three separate lenses for a ~ 13/1 (16-35, 24-70, 70-200).

The largest full frame cine lenses rarely go over 2.5. The APS-C/s35 can zoom higher but, even then, you're looking at heft (Canon CN-E 30-300 is ~ 13 lbs) and very high price tag ($44,000). Of course, one can compromise on quality but it's easier to compromise on size.

Historically, most fixed lens camcorders had a 1/3" to 2/3" sensor (some had a trio of them, however). Having an MFT inside is a pretty significant step upwards.
 
None of the rumors say the GH5 doesn't have 120p, they just don't say anything about it (at least nothing definitively), because Panasonic hasn't said anything about it yet. Probably because they don't know yet themselves. But to me it seems almost certain that the GH5 will do 1080p120 at the least, probably more.
 
I've handled the dvx200 and ux180 side by side. The ux is smaller and about half the weight of the dvx. But if you do not need SDI which is only 3G (meaning only outputs hd) and timecode then you may as well get the Panasonic HC X1, which is the same camera as the UX minus the SDI, only one year of warranty and timecode. But you asked cameras and the HC have an extended zoom feature when you're shooting in HD that is quite effective and the image stabilization is awesome. I was able to zoom in from over 30X and stay quite stable on the salesman's face from over 60 feet away. The autofocus is also very fast very accurate and it does allow for 120 frame over cranky on 23.96 timeline and I believe the 29.97 per second time Line.


I also noticed that the ultimate zoom is about the same as the DVX on the UX cameras when you're shooting UHD at 60 P. That is because the DVX cramera samples a smaller portion of the 4/3 sensor when it's shooting at that frame rate and resolution. But the UX is much wider, by a significant degree. From my research the UX camera samples the entire chip for all frame rates, there is no sampling smaller portions of the chip.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top