DVX100A vs. XL1S
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viperforce
Member
Re: DVX100A vs. XL1S
Very true phD, this is a DVX forum but the original post was asking about the XL1S, not anything else. I just purchased my DVX100A only a few weeks ago, when I bought it I had asked EVS about anything comparable from Canon or SONY and they told me at NAB niether company had anything to show. It is no doubt with the success of the DVX that competitor companies will not try to cash in on its popularity but what will they offer? Canon will most likely be a higher priced option as the XL1 and XL1S has always been. And lets face it if you own a DVX 100 or 100A you own the cutting edge of todays technology in the prosumer market, it is a tool that all of us can use to expand our creativity for years to come and produce amazing results.
Very true phD, this is a DVX forum but the original post was asking about the XL1S, not anything else. I just purchased my DVX100A only a few weeks ago, when I bought it I had asked EVS about anything comparable from Canon or SONY and they told me at NAB niether company had anything to show. It is no doubt with the success of the DVX that competitor companies will not try to cash in on its popularity but what will they offer? Canon will most likely be a higher priced option as the XL1 and XL1S has always been. And lets face it if you own a DVX 100 or 100A you own the cutting edge of todays technology in the prosumer market, it is a tool that all of us can use to expand our creativity for years to come and produce amazing results.
scharky
Veteran
Re: DVX100A vs. XL1S
[quote author=michael_summers link=board=Events;num=1089483005;start=15#16 date=07/10/04 at 17:20:44]the xl2 will run circles around the DVX, and thats coming from a dvx user. i'd suggest wiating for the xl2.[/quote]
The only way that I would even consider "upgrading" if you want to call it that, is if the XL2 was true HD with 16:9 chips. If it isn't, than it is not going to be any better than the DVX. I don't care about interchangeable lenses. That's just another reason for me to spend more money. If I wanted interchangeable lenses on the DVX, I'd by the Mini 35 adapter and use real lenses. As it is, the XL2, if it will remain under $5000 will be pretty much on equal terms as the DVX100 as far as image and sound quality. There is only so far that the mini DV/NTSC/PAL format can go, and we are right at that peek with the DVX.
Another thing, I would really like to see the XL2, actually released. IT seems like every year, just about this time, there is big hype about the XL2 coming out, I remember having this same conversation with someone last year. Will it happen, probably, but I'm not holding my breath, instead, I am shooting lots of stuff with my top of the line 100A.
[quote author=michael_summers link=board=Events;num=1089483005;start=15#16 date=07/10/04 at 17:20:44]the xl2 will run circles around the DVX, and thats coming from a dvx user. i'd suggest wiating for the xl2.[/quote]
The only way that I would even consider "upgrading" if you want to call it that, is if the XL2 was true HD with 16:9 chips. If it isn't, than it is not going to be any better than the DVX. I don't care about interchangeable lenses. That's just another reason for me to spend more money. If I wanted interchangeable lenses on the DVX, I'd by the Mini 35 adapter and use real lenses. As it is, the XL2, if it will remain under $5000 will be pretty much on equal terms as the DVX100 as far as image and sound quality. There is only so far that the mini DV/NTSC/PAL format can go, and we are right at that peek with the DVX.
Another thing, I would really like to see the XL2, actually released. IT seems like every year, just about this time, there is big hype about the XL2 coming out, I remember having this same conversation with someone last year. Will it happen, probably, but I'm not holding my breath, instead, I am shooting lots of stuff with my top of the line 100A.
Z
Zoomforce
Guest
Re: DVX100A vs. XL1S
[quote author=Harry_Destin link=board=Events;num=1089483005;start=15#19 date=07/10/04 at 17:57:43]XL-2 will be introduced at NAB. I met this Videographer who, supposedly, is working on a commercial for the XL2. Watch out folks, it'll give our beloved DVX-100 a run for its money.
Harry
Yeah, it'll offer 24P....and more.
[/quote]
Nab was in April
[quote author=Harry_Destin link=board=Events;num=1089483005;start=15#19 date=07/10/04 at 17:57:43]XL-2 will be introduced at NAB. I met this Videographer who, supposedly, is working on a commercial for the XL2. Watch out folks, it'll give our beloved DVX-100 a run for its money.
Harry
Yeah, it'll offer 24P....and more.
[/quote]
Nab was in April
Mindlab_Production
New member
Re: DVX100A vs. XL1S
interesting
interesting
Mike_Donis
Veteran
Re: DVX100A vs. XL1S
LOL!
hey, i like that quote. maybe canon should make up a mock xl2 ad w/ that quote.
LOL!
Re: DVX100A vs. XL1S
Thank you everyone. I really value your comments. I didn't mean for this to be an XL1S thread, but as you can probably tell, I am new to this and I really needed to hear from people who are actually using the equipment. From what I am hearing, the DVX100A seems to be the better buy. Again, thanks for your opinions.
Thank you everyone. I really value your comments. I didn't mean for this to be an XL1S thread, but as you can probably tell, I am new to this and I really needed to hear from people who are actually using the equipment. From what I am hearing, the DVX100A seems to be the better buy. Again, thanks for your opinions.
Slapdragon
Well-known member
Re: DVX100A vs. XL1S
One of my problems with the XL-2 and all of the wonderful things it will be and have, is that I have heard it before. The XL-1s was the first "XL-2" with LCD, balanced audio, next generation LCD, progressive imaging, on board gamma processing, the works. The XL-1s was what we got, which was a minor upgrade on the XL-1. Then I heard February was the date for the XL-2, and it passed. Then April, and they were pushing the XL-1s as the solution for the future of DV, not very impressive. Now there is a July 18th date everyone is voicing. But last time I called anyone at Canon USA they had no idea what I was talking about. Now, this could be them being cagey, and the XL-2 could be leaving the skunk works right now, but the XL-1s is not EOL at any dealers, there is no sales packs coming from Canon, and there should be, media pre-hype is nil, and no engineering papers have come out of Canon that I have read with major next level breakthroughs.
All this means that IF an XL-2 gets announced in July, then it wont be available for purchase until almost Christmas time, and knowing Pro Camcorder roll outs will be constrained for nearly a year. In other words, it needs to be a massive leap to make me even think of replacing my personal PD100a, let alone dumping plans to get a pair of DVX100a. Unless it had built in recording to outboard disk drives, XLR balanced inputs, and progressive scan, I would be hesitant to rush out to buy one.
One of my problems with the XL-2 and all of the wonderful things it will be and have, is that I have heard it before. The XL-1s was the first "XL-2" with LCD, balanced audio, next generation LCD, progressive imaging, on board gamma processing, the works. The XL-1s was what we got, which was a minor upgrade on the XL-1. Then I heard February was the date for the XL-2, and it passed. Then April, and they were pushing the XL-1s as the solution for the future of DV, not very impressive. Now there is a July 18th date everyone is voicing. But last time I called anyone at Canon USA they had no idea what I was talking about. Now, this could be them being cagey, and the XL-2 could be leaving the skunk works right now, but the XL-1s is not EOL at any dealers, there is no sales packs coming from Canon, and there should be, media pre-hype is nil, and no engineering papers have come out of Canon that I have read with major next level breakthroughs.
All this means that IF an XL-2 gets announced in July, then it wont be available for purchase until almost Christmas time, and knowing Pro Camcorder roll outs will be constrained for nearly a year. In other words, it needs to be a massive leap to make me even think of replacing my personal PD100a, let alone dumping plans to get a pair of DVX100a. Unless it had built in recording to outboard disk drives, XLR balanced inputs, and progressive scan, I would be hesitant to rush out to buy one.
Z
Zoomforce
Guest
Re: DVX100A vs. XL1S
Yeah.. the doubt is valid, but the July 15th date seems like reality. The cards are very close to thier chest though, and my NDA agreement says If I tell anyone what I know about the XL-2 they get to take my DVX away from me ha ha.
Seriosly though, the XL2 could be a breakthrough camera. Canon doesnt have an expensive HD camera to protect, so they could go balls out and blow us all away.
Hell maybe even the GL3 will have 24p
Yeah.. the doubt is valid, but the July 15th date seems like reality. The cards are very close to thier chest though, and my NDA agreement says If I tell anyone what I know about the XL-2 they get to take my DVX away from me
ha ha.Seriosly though, the XL2 could be a breakthrough camera. Canon doesnt have an expensive HD camera to protect, so they could go balls out and blow us all away.
Hell maybe even the GL3 will have 24p
Slapdragon
Well-known member
Re: DVX100A vs. XL1S
[quote author=Jarred Land link=board=Events;num=1089483005;start=30#32 date=07/11/04 at 22:10:21]Yeah.. the doubt is valid, but the July 15th date seems like reality. The cards are very close to thier chest though, and my NDA agreement says If I tell anyone what I know about the XL-2 they get to take my DVX away from me ha ha.
Seriosly though, the XL2 could be a breakthrough camera. Canon doesnt have an expensive HD camera to protect, so they could go balls out and blow us all away.
Hell maybe even the GL3 will have 24p[/quote]
Well, I have quotes out on two DVX100a right now and, if they come it at the right price point and have the features I want, that could change to XL2, assuming it is not merely a painted XL1s. Right now features I am dying for a Prosumer to have are:
>>Direct to disk quicktime recording. And the disk had better not be some proprietary 800 dollar thing, but a standard firewire portable powered by a 6-pin to the camera.
>>True balanced audio.
>>True progressive.
>>Advanced CCD design.
>>As much hard access to controls as possible (I hate soft controls).
>>No "new tape formats". Do it with DV or to hard drive.
>>Standard FW deck control so my NLEs don't need a buggy plug-in to work if I should decide to attach it to the computer.
>>Availability in quantity sooner rather than later. If I wont be able to find any of these things until next summer, don't bother to say "coming soon".
>>Models in the hands of someone in the profession I trust. I am not talking about some magazine writer, but someone such as yourself or a photog whose work I know.
[quote author=Jarred Land link=board=Events;num=1089483005;start=30#32 date=07/11/04 at 22:10:21]Yeah.. the doubt is valid, but the July 15th date seems like reality. The cards are very close to thier chest though, and my NDA agreement says If I tell anyone what I know about the XL-2 they get to take my DVX away from me
ha ha.Seriosly though, the XL2 could be a breakthrough camera. Canon doesnt have an expensive HD camera to protect, so they could go balls out and blow us all away.
Hell maybe even the GL3 will have 24p
[/quote]Well, I have quotes out on two DVX100a right now and, if they come it at the right price point and have the features I want, that could change to XL2, assuming it is not merely a painted XL1s. Right now features I am dying for a Prosumer to have are:
>>Direct to disk quicktime recording. And the disk had better not be some proprietary 800 dollar thing, but a standard firewire portable powered by a 6-pin to the camera.
>>True balanced audio.
>>True progressive.
>>Advanced CCD design.
>>As much hard access to controls as possible (I hate soft controls).
>>No "new tape formats". Do it with DV or to hard drive.
>>Standard FW deck control so my NLEs don't need a buggy plug-in to work if I should decide to attach it to the computer.
>>Availability in quantity sooner rather than later. If I wont be able to find any of these things until next summer, don't bother to say "coming soon".
>>Models in the hands of someone in the profession I trust. I am not talking about some magazine writer, but someone such as yourself or a photog whose work I know.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: DVX100A vs. XL1S
So basically you're asking for a DVX100A, which does everything on your list except the hard disk situation...
So basically you're asking for a DVX100A, which does everything on your list except the hard disk situation...
Slapdragon
Well-known member
Re: DVX100A vs. XL1S
[quote author=Barry_Green link=board=Events;num=1089483005;start=30#34 date=07/11/04 at 23:07:30]So basically you're asking for a DVX100A, which does everything on your list except the hard disk situation...[/quote]
Pretty much, but I also include the glass on the XL2 to that list which I wish the DVX100a had. Some more issues with the XL1s I would like to see addressed:
1) Ruggedness. It is far less rugged that the DVX100a.
2) Balance. All that glass in front makes it hard to balance on light tripods (which I prefer. If I want heavy, I will throw it on a doorway dolly. Tripods are suppose to be fast and light.)
3) HD. Fat chance, but if they did HD right, it would be cool. The DV codec, in its DV100 form, runs tape at 4x speed (well within current head designs) and although your biggest tape only gives you 15 minutes (unless they go to the L tapes, which I doubt even more than HD) the possibility of having HD would be nice.
Cannon has been, because of its glass works, all about lenses, and its cameras have always been the video camera for the still photography crowd, so all of this is far fetched. What do I expect from Canon knowing their history? Here is my list of things I fear we will get:
A) Ability to take still photographs at higher than D1/SD resolutions. This is often talked about by XL1 people, but I could care less. When I need high resolution stills, I will use my Nikon D1 and not my camcorder.
B) New powered lens features common with Canon digital cameras. Again, I buy big glass not for its auto features, but for its manual features. If I want auto features, I would step down, not up.
C) Low light and special lighting features. Highly over rated for a professional. The bigger I go with cameras, the less I want fancy features, and the more I want solid performance. If I want low light for my police work, I rent an el cheapo camcorder, mostly because I do not want to risk big glass in some rerun of cops where I am the primary character.
[quote author=Barry_Green link=board=Events;num=1089483005;start=30#34 date=07/11/04 at 23:07:30]So basically you're asking for a DVX100A, which does everything on your list except the hard disk situation...
[/quote]Pretty much, but I also include the glass on the XL2 to that list which I wish the DVX100a had. Some more issues with the XL1s I would like to see addressed:
1) Ruggedness. It is far less rugged that the DVX100a.
2) Balance. All that glass in front makes it hard to balance on light tripods (which I prefer. If I want heavy, I will throw it on a doorway dolly. Tripods are suppose to be fast and light.)
3) HD. Fat chance, but if they did HD right, it would be cool. The DV codec, in its DV100 form, runs tape at 4x speed (well within current head designs) and although your biggest tape only gives you 15 minutes (unless they go to the L tapes, which I doubt even more than HD) the possibility of having HD would be nice.
Cannon has been, because of its glass works, all about lenses, and its cameras have always been the video camera for the still photography crowd, so all of this is far fetched. What do I expect from Canon knowing their history? Here is my list of things I fear we will get:
A) Ability to take still photographs at higher than D1/SD resolutions. This is often talked about by XL1 people, but I could care less. When I need high resolution stills, I will use my Nikon D1 and not my camcorder.
B) New powered lens features common with Canon digital cameras. Again, I buy big glass not for its auto features, but for its manual features. If I want auto features, I would step down, not up.
C) Low light and special lighting features. Highly over rated for a professional. The bigger I go with cameras, the less I want fancy features, and the more I want solid performance. If I want low light for my police work, I rent an el cheapo camcorder, mostly because I do not want to risk big glass in some rerun of cops where I am the primary character.
Re: DVX100A vs. XL1S
Wouldn't be surprised if they kept the same one.
Wouldn't be surprised if they kept the same one.
Z
Zoomforce
Guest
Re: DVX100A vs. XL1S
[quote author=Barry_S link=board=Events;num=1089483005;start=30#37 date=07/12/04 at 14:03:12]For all Canon's optical expertise, the stock lens on the XL-1s is mediocre. [/quote]
Yes; the stock lens on the XL1 is the worse piece of glass Canon has ever made. However, they just release a new lens for HD that is a Cine Anamorphic lens, that is supposed to be incredible.
[quote author=Barry_S link=board=Events;num=1089483005;start=30#37 date=07/12/04 at 14:03:12]For all Canon's optical expertise, the stock lens on the XL-1s is mediocre. [/quote]
Yes; the stock lens on the XL1 is the worse piece of glass Canon has ever made. However, they just release a new lens for HD that is a Cine Anamorphic lens, that is supposed to be incredible.