DVX100 viable choice?
- Thread starter Azmyth
- Start date
As an owner of a DVX100B, I have a hard time imagining that those little Canons mentioned 'way back at the beginning of this discussion, HD or not, can compete with a three-chip, one-third inch sensor camera. I know I don't know all the technical aspects of this, but wouldn't a camera like the Canons get some of its sharpness through fiddling with edge definition? Is it all about pixel count? (Personally, I can't say I'm all that taken with new TVs, HD or not. We just bought a Bravia, and I wish I had my old tube TV back.)
Those little Canon cameras are HD, with 1/2.7-inch sensor, the next pro cam with a larger sensor is the Sony EX. The DVX is an SD camera with 1/3-inch sensor. Thus, those little cams provide much more detailed image and shallower DOF than the DVX. They put out fabulous video. But they suck in handling and controls.
Azmyth
Veteran
To add to this..
the reason why I even mentioned them, is because there is a pretty big following of users who have started to use these little camera for their low budget projects and some of them look pretty stunning when paired with good lighting/audio. I've seen more "bad" than I have good... with every single camera I have checked into. The cameras seem to be as good as the person using it. Because I've seen bad footage on every camera I've researched to include the higher end ones.
I'm completely new to all this. I don't know much about CCD's or CMOS censors. I've read alot about this stuff, but I don't "know it" like alot of you guys do. I just know what I want to do, and am looking for adequate tools to do it for a beginner in a price range that won't kill me.
for example.. this little short here..
http://vimeo.com/5935596
was shot with a canon HV20 with a twoneil 35mm adapter and some decent lighting. I think it looks great. I have seen MUCH worse stuff done on cameras that were more expensive because they lacked everything else you could possibly need in a good film. I figure one of these might help me get my feet wet enough to where once I realize I want to go somewhere with this.. I may be able to invest more money into a nicer camera... but right now.. I have NOTHING. So, lights.. audio.. effects.. all must be taken into account as part of the budget.
DPStewart
Veteran
Yo Azmyth...that video you posted was wack.
Here's an HV20 STOCK video that kills.
http://vimeo.com/431500
These choices are maddening, yes?
Have a headache yet?
I STILL do.
~DPS
Here's an HV20 STOCK video that kills.
http://vimeo.com/431500
These choices are maddening, yes?
Have a headache yet?
I STILL do.
~DPS
Azmyth
Veteran
seen it already.
I've been at this for a while. If its supposed to show the cameras awesomeness I've more than likely already seen it. I've gone through every user film here, and on other forums as well. The choices are maddening, you def. right. How many more years does the DVX100 have on it before its "ha ha ha your still using a dvx100?". I actually thought that video I posted was pretty good. I don't have the "eye" yet I guess.. It kept my attention. The one you posted looks great especially considering it is just the bare naked camera with nothing attached. I've at least determined that my budget, and experience are negating the more expensve cameras at this time. I wouldn't tell a beginner guitar player to go out and buy a Les Paul.. it really wouldn't help them become a better guitar player.
Warthog
Active member
Well, if I may throw in my 2 cents...
I have been using AGDVC30 for the last 3 or 4 years, shooting kids, family events etc. recently also quite a lot of work for an NGO I work for. I bought the DVC30 just to test whether I, with my still photography background, can actually learn to work with video. I can and I have started to look for a better camera, with more manual controls. Of course the SD/HD question came up first.
My short documentaries are usually about 15 to 20 minutes, distributed via the internet. Considering the internet connectivity in Czech republic, where most of my audience is located, the reasonable size of the movie file is between 200-300MB. So I cannot really distribute in HD and won't be able to do that for a few years.
But perhaps it were better to shoot HD anyway, even if the final product was SD (the colors should be better in HD, the 16:9 is native etc.)? So I made a little test. I shot our recent scavenger hunt documentary using my DVC30 and asked a friend of mine to do the same using his XH A1. I have edited the final version of the documentary using footage from both cameras, encoded for web and asked people to identify the HD and SD footage. Some people were able to identify some scenes, but not very reliably and no one has identified all of them correctly. The final decision therefore was that while a HD camcorder might not be a bad thing for the future, I would not exclude SD cameras from my list.
I wanted to stay with Panasonic if possible, but briefly looked at Canons as well. In the end the list was down to DVX100, HMC41 or HMC150/151. I have eliminated the 41 because I want the wider lens and more manual controls. HMC150/151 is a great camera and alone it would fit within my budget, but I have decided to get the DVX100 and spend the rest of the money on the accessories (35mm adapter so I can use my collection of Nikkors and either the Panasonic anamorphic lens or some stabilizer).
I have been using AGDVC30 for the last 3 or 4 years, shooting kids, family events etc. recently also quite a lot of work for an NGO I work for. I bought the DVC30 just to test whether I, with my still photography background, can actually learn to work with video. I can and I have started to look for a better camera, with more manual controls. Of course the SD/HD question came up first.
My short documentaries are usually about 15 to 20 minutes, distributed via the internet. Considering the internet connectivity in Czech republic, where most of my audience is located, the reasonable size of the movie file is between 200-300MB. So I cannot really distribute in HD and won't be able to do that for a few years.
But perhaps it were better to shoot HD anyway, even if the final product was SD (the colors should be better in HD, the 16:9 is native etc.)? So I made a little test. I shot our recent scavenger hunt documentary using my DVC30 and asked a friend of mine to do the same using his XH A1. I have edited the final version of the documentary using footage from both cameras, encoded for web and asked people to identify the HD and SD footage. Some people were able to identify some scenes, but not very reliably and no one has identified all of them correctly. The final decision therefore was that while a HD camcorder might not be a bad thing for the future, I would not exclude SD cameras from my list.
I wanted to stay with Panasonic if possible, but briefly looked at Canons as well. In the end the list was down to DVX100, HMC41 or HMC150/151. I have eliminated the 41 because I want the wider lens and more manual controls. HMC150/151 is a great camera and alone it would fit within my budget, but I have decided to get the DVX100 and spend the rest of the money on the accessories (35mm adapter so I can use my collection of Nikkors and either the Panasonic anamorphic lens or some stabilizer).
Azmyth
Veteran
Thats where I am at with it.
It seems in general, the HD market is being shifted less towards what I am wanting to do.. and more towards the "business" side.. (weddings, corporate videos, etc.) I am hoping there is still a market for indie films using standard definition. Like you said, even I can't tell the difference sometimes and I am looking for it.
The funny part of this ordeal.. is over here, the dvx100 seems to be recommended in the price range.. and on another board.. they all seem to think the DVX100 would be a downgrade from the consumer cameras that canon makes.. its a never ending cycle.
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matt s.
Veteran
Like I had mentioned earlier I have shot 2 lo budget features on the DVX100a. It does produce great images and is an awesome camera. The dvd's looked great and I was quite surprised at how well the dvd's held up being projected in several theaters. On that note my main reason for getting the 150 was for the whole tapeless workflow. with the used prices of DVX's so cheap these days it would be a great camera to get to learn on and shot your first film and i would probably buy used before new as the new price for a 100b you are in the range of the HMC40 which will definitley give you better picture quality over the DVX IMO.
DIRECTORDEVIN
Active member
I would suggest since your only a new filmmaker you do not need anything fancy and the dvx100 is a great camera in every which way, who cares that it's old does'nt mean anything.
I know alot of people who can't even get great images out of the red camera. Camera doest matter it's what you do with it, if your budget can afford the dvx go with it, it is a great camera.
Forget about all this technology that seems to be making first time filmmakers who can hardly compose a shot run out to buy the latest gear, and they are always dissapointed when they unpack there camera out the box and the images still looks like home video lol
so it's more then the camera. get the dvx or the gl2 for that matter, practice makes perfect and when you feel you are ready to move on because a certain system cannot provide what you need then you can move on to something else.
I also see you wrote that you looked in the forum and seen some great hmc 150 stuff remember that not anyone can create those images you seen hope this helps.
I know alot of people who can't even get great images out of the red camera. Camera doest matter it's what you do with it, if your budget can afford the dvx go with it, it is a great camera.
Forget about all this technology that seems to be making first time filmmakers who can hardly compose a shot run out to buy the latest gear, and they are always dissapointed when they unpack there camera out the box and the images still looks like home video lol
so it's more then the camera. get the dvx or the gl2 for that matter, practice makes perfect and when you feel you are ready to move on because a certain system cannot provide what you need then you can move on to something else.
I also see you wrote that you looked in the forum and seen some great hmc 150 stuff remember that not anyone can create those images you seen hope this helps.
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Warthog
Active member
I agree that if you live in the US and buy a new camcorder, HMC is a better choice. I bought an used DVX with 10 hrs on the counter for US$ 1900. I know I will eventually have to go HD, but the time is not here yet and this camcorder should be fine for those few years.
If you live where I do, HMC150 (or 151 to be more exact) will cost you close to US$5000 ;-)
Azmyth
Veteran
the DVX new is out of my budget.. therefore putting anything else in that price range "new" out of my budget. I have about 1500.00 or a little more to spend.. thats not going to get me anything "new" other than those canon cameras.
matt s.
Veteran
write a good script and tell a great story and go with the used DVX100. The Canons may produce nice images but you will love the controls of the DVX not to mention its excellent audio quality.
Azmyth
Veteran
how many years do you think the DVX will still be in use for film making?
I was at wal mart today, and noticed a very small selection of blu ray compared to DVD.. so I would guess.. DVD's are still the top seller.
jambredz
Veteran
Soooooo...this is what u shud get with ur budget as I said b4...dvx100 a or b and a rode ntg2. DIY light kit (worklights and couple china balls with mic stands, and gels,DIY diffusion...can also provide a link if u need)and DIY boom pole (painted black),DIY dolley (very easy to make if u need plans I can give u a link) Get a shock mount for the rode. Good story, shoot squeeze, rode ntg2 + dvx = good sound. No need to upgrade ur pc.
Somehow get barry's dvx book and ur golden
get shooting.
Somehow get barry's dvx book and ur golden
get shooting.
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