DVX XL2 and HD

S

skippyfetus

Carbonite Member
Why do people keep asking, when is Panasonic and Canon going to go to HD, why aren't the new versions of the DVX and XL1 cameras HD?

Well, for one thing those cameras are Mini DV cameras. Don't you think they might consider releasing a completely different model for HD or at least a special addition? I know that if I was a XL1s user and was planning on upgrading I'd be pissed if they decided to switch formats and leave everyone with no choice but to switch formats. Wouldn't that be a little pushy and inconvenient for film makers who have expensive Mini DV decks and are used to doing things the MiniDV way.

I think both Panasonic and Canon will release HD cameras, but they're not going to force it on anyone. They'll probably come out with totally original models or special additions for those that want to switch.

Besides, the average consumer is not familiar with HD and probably afraid of it. From a business point of view, it would have been suicidal for Canon to make the XL2 HD.  
 
Re: DVX XL2 and HD

I dunno, I think it was kind of suicidal of them to let Panasonic and Sony get so far ahead, and year after year they'd keep trotting out the XL1s as if anyone cared. DVExpo West was an utter embarrassment for them, there were hundreds of people swarming over the DVX100A (A, mind you, because the 100 had already been on the market for over a year!) and there was Canon, sitting lonely and all alone, with a banner proclaiming the XL1s...

We'll see if they can resurrect some sales. The DVX has quite a bit of momentum. Canon could have carved out a new niche as the star player in the HDV market, but instead they gave us an XL2 that just brings it competitive with what Panasonic had on the market nearly two years ago.
 
Re: DVX XL2 and HD

Well, I have to say that I kinda admire Canon for that. It seems as though it must have taken some will power to not just come out with something to compete with the DVX. At least with Canon you don't have to worry about them coming out with a "new and improved" version yearly. They try to make a product that will last and stand by it and not release a new version until they feel it's nessasary. I wonder if Panasonic could hold out so long on the DVX line. They also seem very reliable. People that bought a XL1 in 97 can still use their lenses and accessories with the current model. If you look on Ebay, you'll see that people are willing to pay just as much for an old XL1 as a DVX100, now that says something about the company. No corporation seems to put anything before money, but Canon looks like they care more about their base and making a good product than a quick buck.

Canon is the same with Digital cameras... only issuing a replacement for each model every couple of years... which is a good pace I think.

Now on the other hand, the GL2... what a hunk of crap. You can get the new DVC30 for less than it and the DVC30 destroys it. I once considered that camera, but couldn't find any features to justify it's price. If Canon were smart they would make the GL3 rival the DVX.
 
Re: DVX XL2 and HD

There won't be a GL3 -- Canon said that the XL2 will be "the last standard-def camera they introduce".

I thought the GL2 was a decent little camera. DVC30 is advanced over it, yes, but it's been quite a while since the GL2 was introduced.

There's also something to be said for the backward-compatibility, and forward-compatability, that Canon engineered here. If I had been fool enough to buy an XL1 so many years ago, and then had tried to pacify my foolishness by spending way too much on accessories (like the manual lens and the B&W viewfinder, etc) then I would be one happy camper today, seeing that Canon would let me roll my whole investment forward and catch up with the rest of the world.

Unless the XL2 is a bomb (which I highly doubt it would be), I may look at it as a second camera. That 20x lens is hard to argue with, and true progressive scan along with full-res 16:9 might make it the ultimate mini35 camera. But, we shall see what we shall see, when testing reveals how it performs and users have had a couple of months to "beta test" it.
 
Re: DVX XL2 and HD

Canon doesnt like the number 3.. so no GL3.. instead perhaps GLHDV1.

L1,L2,XL1,XL2.. etc.. etc.
 
Re: DVX XL2 and HD

Ok, so if that's the end of the GL series and the end of the XL series, then I guess the next big thing will be HD. I'm glad the XL2 was MiniDV because I'm not sure that I want to get into HDTV anytime soon and I think they really got the camera right this time. I'll probably buy one next year and feel good about it for two or three years after that.
 
Re: DVX XL2 and HD

[quote author=Tony_H link=board=XL2;num=1089771151;start=0#5 date=07/14/04 at 01:20:16] I'll probably buy one next year and feel good about it for two or three years after that. [/quote]


Then your avatar can say, "If you touch my *XL2*, I'll kick your ass man!".  ;)
 
Re: DVX XL2 and HD

[quote author=Tony_H link=board=XL2;num=1089771151;start=0#5 date=07/14/04 at 01:20:16]I'm glad the XL2 was MiniDV because I'm not sure that I want to get into HDTV anytime soon and I think they really got the camera right this time. [/quote]

If it *was* HD, why would it force you to "get into" HD any sooner than you wanted?
 
Re: DVX XL2 and HD

??? Well, I would like to buy the camera and I'm no sure that I would if it was HD, does that make sense? I'm comfortable with MiniDV... Vegas doesn't even support MiniDV does it?
 
Re: DVX XL2 and HD

"Canon is the same with Digital cameras... only issuing a replacement for each model every couple of years... which is a good pace I think." Tony_H

I’m not sure the point of all this, I guess you like Canon, I too like Canon. However, you are wrong about one thing, Canon released the D30 digital SLR, then within six months released the D60 – same camera more pixels, and then within a year after that released the D10, which eclipsed them all for less than half the price of the original. Then they went off and released the Digital Rebel line of SLR’s for less.

Also DV and HDV are not mutually exclusive, one camera could produce both formats.

Anyone want to purchase a Canon D30? :-[
 
Re: DVX XL2 and HD

[quote author=Tony_H link=board=XL2;num=1089771151;start=0#9 date=07/14/04 at 10:21:14]??? Well, I would like to buy the camera and I'm no sure that I would if it was HD, does that make sense? I'm comfortable with MiniDV... Vegas doesn't even support MiniDV does it?[/quote]

Do you mean, does Vegas support HD? Yes, it does.

Is it that you don't like HD, or that you'd rather have 24p than HD?
 
Re: DVX XL2 and HD

I would rather have 24p HD with 16:9 chips, no mpeg2 compression, a 4.5-105 lens and look and feel just like the dvx :D  Can you do that one for me David?

Oh, and it needs to cost under 4grand ;D
 
Re: DVX XL2 and HD

Ten bucks? No way...it should be a free upgrade they throw in: you give them your DVX, and they trade you up. ;D
 
Re: DVX XL2 and HD

DVX and XL2 are both still video and are not HD. To be considerd HD the camera has to record 720-1,080 (really only only 1080 but Panasonic cheated) lines of resolution. Video records 480-525 lines. 35mm is 4,096 lines of resolution. There are some HD prosumer cameras coming out in the future, ones that record on to chips and Harddrives and not tapes. There is even a prototype Digital camera that records 4000 lines and its made by some no name hi-teck company. HD would never record onto mini DV only HD tapes... which cost more then a roll of 16mm :-( around $110 canadian for a 40min tape. The only reason 24p works on mini DV is cuz of the pull down.

They showcase all these new cameras in LA yearly and its quite impressive.
 
Re: DVX XL2 and HD

GR-HD1 manages to squeeze a "high definition" picture (720p and 1080i) onto MiniDV tape using MPEG-2 compression, which is very impressive... but your compressing your image and in a few years according to the broadcast standards commission you shoulden't have to compress. But your right it does record "HD" I was wrong. Too bad it doesn't record 1080p :-(

720p shouldn’t be considered HD and I think the broadcast standards commission even said it wasn’t.
 
Re: DVX XL2 and HD

Hi all,
Don't you feel strange to have a HD camera recording onto MiniDv like JVC's camera, with 1/3"CCDs? Why have a HiDef image, even at 720p or 1080i if you have to compress it into a format with 8bit colorspace, 4:1:1 smapling and 5:1 compression? You end up throwing almost every useful info away...It´s like trying to put 10 liters of water into a 1.5 liters of water...
Cheers..
Pedro :)
 
Re: DVX XL2 and HD

I said:
«It´s like trying to put 10 liters of water into a 1.5 liters of water... »but I wanted to write «It´s like trying to put 10 liters of water into a 1.5 liter bottle...»
sorry :-/
 
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