DVX-100A a "sham"??!!

P

powerdog

Veteran
My stepson, a professional videographer (worked for local news station), was talking to me about camcorders. He said the 24p in the DVX is a "sham" because, in transferring it to a DVD for watching on TV, you have to convert it to 30p anyway. So you don't gain anything from the 24p. He said if you want a film look, you should buy a similarly priced Canon and apply a filter to the video.

I haven't read anything that said the 24p was useless for video that's destined for DVD and TV.

The other factor here is that I suspect he doesn't want me encroaching on his area of expertise. He expresses strong opinions to show me how little I know compared to him.

Can you clear this up for me? I'm new to all this, so I need a simple answer. Thanks!
 
Re: DVX-100A a "sham"??!!

So here we go . . . 24p is the closest image aquisition you will get to film running at 24p. The way the camera sees and records in 24 full frames per second will be different to any other video aquisition that sees 60 half frames a second of the action and piecing them together to give you one second of footage. What you do between the time you capture those frames and output them to dvd will also change when working in 24p. 24 clean frames capture so much more information that is easier to work with in post. I got my experience from the VFX part of the movie industry and the 24 frame per second camera that the dvx is was the first prosumer machine to be taken seriously. 24 p takes the home out of homevideo!
 
Re: DVX-100A a "sham"??!!

Agreed, comparable to any other camera on the market..that u can buy as of now...(NOT XL2) the dvx has the most to offer in the prosumer area under 5 grand....full manual control 24p film motion, only downsides is its weakness of low light and non-removable lense....other then that..i have had nothing but a good experience since i bought my dvx a few months ago....

dont listen to ure stepson, he sounds like he wasted his money on an xl1 or the like...and is just jealous of the superior image quality of the dvx...hehe...

have him compare some footage that he shoots on a prosumer mini dv cam....with out using a broadcasting camera...see if he can match the dvx...

any digital video if properly lighted will look excelent...dvx,xl1,vx2100,pd170...but the frame rate will improve upon a certail look you are going for...

let us know what happens
 
Re: DVX-100A a "sham"??!!

Well put guys. Everything on normal SD TV's are converted to 60i. Real films look like film right. The DVX shot correctly is the closest you'll get to the real thing.
 
Re: DVX-100A a "sham"??!!

p.s. to Jourabchi the dvx may not be rated as good for low light as the sony vx-2100 but I just used it at an event where the lighting was limited and had to bump it to 6db, I still capture pure color's and great tone. blowing away the footage that my cousin was capturing with his xl1. I doubt the low light is gonna ever be an issue if you're lighting a scene.

And To PowerDog, when you shot with the dvx in 24p advanced you capture at 24 pa and it's copied to a 60 interlaced frames with a pulldown added so you can view it on your tv or what ever, then you stick it in your editing program where that pulldown is removed, so your back to 24fps. if you finish your edit and burn it to a dvd it will still remain 24fps on the dvd, giving you more room on the disc to add either a longer film or higher compression. tell you stepson to do his research in to these camera's before tossing his opinions out.
 
Re: DVX-100A a "sham"??!!

nick, i know...i used it at a wedding reception this past weekend and it worked wonders....i adjusted a couple settings and saved to the f5 preset and changed it to 24pa ...and all is well
 
Re: DVX-100A a "sham"??!!

Thank you, guys! Too bad that someone who knows so much (stepson) is so useless as a source of info. (A few weeks ago, when I was starting to think about video, he said you couldn't get a camera with decent PQ for less than $50,000!)
 
Re: DVX-100A a "sham"??!!

Just go over to the "Clips/screen grabs" section of this site if you want to see the quality of footage that people are getting out of this camera. That should put this issue to bed once and for all.
 
Re: DVX-100A a "sham"??!!

You can make 24p DVDs. The DVD player will automatically convert them for display on 60i TVs, but can be displayed at full progressive on digital TVs.

It's not the final framerate that matters; it's the *look* you get from shooting in 24p. Sure, you can simulate it later with 60i footage, but why go through the hassle when you can do it in camera?

I know someone similar to this guy; upon inspecting the DVX, she said "that's a nice little -- what's that word? Prosumer? -- camera you have there!"
 
Re: DVX-100A a "sham"??!!


... the list goes on and on.. the DVX is not a sham.
that is why it is even becoming more so the run + gun braodcast, T.V. and independent music video and filmmaking camera of choice.

...but you know what you should do, is just buy a digital still camera.. maybe a camera phone.. and then take pictures as fast as ou can.. and then use software to uprez it to full SD broadcast quality.. and then use software to interpolate the frames from the 2 frames a sec you took to 24 fps, and then edit it and use software to try to make it look like film,, and then you can get the sound from one of those parrots that speak back what you say at toys r us or .. so you can record with that on your shoulder, and then just have it speak into the computer mic. and record it at 48k and your all set.. you can even just paint the words "professional 24p cinema camera" on the side of your phone..
..i mean, whats the difference. you can do all that for way cheaper than the DVX.. so its obviously a sham. for filters you can get a peice of stained glass at an antuiqe store, and then just use a grayy walker for a tripod.. those are sweet! and i was just thinking that for al the professional manual controls you could just duct tape an old gear selector from a 76 chevy to the side of your phone.. and for all the other pro features you could just wear a jacket that says :

way pro "vilm" crew

...all that for way.. waaaay less. so dont waste you money on the DVX.. its just an overpriced cell phone in the end.
 
Re: DVX-100A a "sham"??!!

So if it is shot on 35mm Film and transeferred to DVD and 30p then that is a waste of time? Maybe they should have shot The Passion of Christ using IAL's method of using the Camera Phone. :P

Perhaps you should invite your stepson onto the boards.
 
Re: DVX-100A a "sham"??!!

it is not only the framerate, even if it looks so different to NTSC users. in the PAL version of the cam it is the same framerate as on interlaced video, but the a) latitude the camera gives (how many stops are expsoed properly) and b) also the filmlook with motionblur etc in the 25p mode are unique in this pricerange
 
Re: DVX-100A a "sham"??!!

like i said the best mini dv cam on the market in the under 5000 dollar price range...this camera is no joke
 
Re: DVX-100A a "sham"??!!

A lot of 'professional' videographers seem to have this problem. I posted a while ago about an Adobe seminar I went to, and I asked them a question about Encore and it's ability to make 24P DVDs.

Their response was a little condescending, telling me that "all films end up in 60i on DVD so there's no point doing a 24P DVD"

I then had a guy behind me say that "24P is useless unless youre transferring to film, it's much better to shoot 60i and add a film look to it in post". Several of the guys around him agreed, all with a bit of a chuckle in my direction...

Who's laughing now? ;D
 
Re: DVX-100A a "sham"??!!

I can't specifically remember, but I think it was in June...It was within the last couple months though.

They were advertising Premiere Pro 1.5, AE 6.5, PS CE, etc...
 
Re: DVX-100A a "sham"??!!

I remember that post.. it made me want to have been there. I wouldve kicked them in the ol' 60i.. :P

i hate it when uneducated people all band together... the blind leading the blind.. and they all think they are going the right direction...
 
Re: DVX-100A a "sham"??!!

Nevermind IAL, as Mike said, who is laughing now?!

The more poeple underestimate us, more credit they will have to grant our good results. This camera rocks!
 
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