dvx 100 prices moniter: blame the hdx100

[ddh]

Most of the folks on this forum are interested in independent film making (even if they are only making money as a shooter or producing standard video) and shooting on film is just not an option for most. What the DVX100 and what a similar high definition cam may offer is a closer feel to film and that's the point. The DVX100 is a god send for most of us small producers. All I hope is that future cams get better resolution, a few more options on lenses and maintain an affordable price range.

 

[earon_k]

CineCell: People, audiences or public, are not getting tired of Minidv films. In fact, they are starting to appreciate it by what they are. Stories.

If i want make short films or features i don´t wanna go for the big money. Look what happened to The Aviator tonight. If you take so good script as Million Dollar Bay is, Take Clint away, take the big names away, and change everything from DV to borrowed Locations, you get (well not the same) but a pretty good story ANYWAY. And people will wach it regarding the resolution in the screen.

More, audiences are eager to choose this little films because they aren´t probably the same as big studios ten in a row fotocopies.

If they don´t earn lot of money, well, good thing they haven´t been expensive. If they are a hit, they will be remembered for what they are, rulebreakers, auteurs, foresighting people, whatever. I wanna be one of those rather than get suck in the system. If i don´t reach that far... man, it´s impossible i don´t reach that far; i LOVE writing, if i´m not good i have edditing, if i´m not good, i love producing, if i´m not good, i will always have directing (and directing is more of knowing how to ask people surrounding you and good common sense than other thing, and i have lot of that.)

For the price of a CineAlta, or a Varicam, or a renting for four weeks equipment people here in this place can make really good things. Heart and mind do more than HD or 35mm. If you don´t believe it, take a look around.

HEAR! HEAR! BRAVO!
earon

 

[Aidan]

ok, so say the prices do drop, when does anyone think it will happen? 2 months, 6 months......

 

[geffy]

100b is here

100b is here

shame the poll results are not here they got lost in the revamp, but at the time i was struck by the obstinate belief that the best time to sell was when the new camera appeared and it wasnt worth hanging off to buy it if it was feasible, very weird

 

[steindj]

i seriously would not want a lighter DVX. its light enough as is IMHO.

That's for sure!! It's almost too light.

 

[Bob Diesso]

Gee - It hadn't occurred to me that DVX prices had changed much from when I bought mine, but after reading this string I checked - unfortunately. B&H is selling new DVX's for $3400. After Panasonic's $500 rebate, price nets to $2899.95 - PLUS a free battery and tape. It's a great deal, but this is about $1200 less than I paid for mine (plus battery, etc.) about a year ago. The internet has even lower pricing but as Jan says, it's probably shaky gray market stuff.

eBay has used DVX100's selling for $1190.

This is rather sobering, as I had hoped to recover greater value selling my DVX when the HVX delivers. What happened???

 

[Barry_Green]

eBay has used DVX100's selling for $1190.

Doubtful. Scam artists abound in trying to sell people used expensive electronics. Legit prices for used DVX100s are probably more around $2000 or so.

 

[geffy]

new poll

new poll

"shame the poll results are not here they got lost in the revamp, but at the time i was struck by the obstinate belief that the best time to sell was when the new camera appeared and it wasnt worth hanging off to buy it if it was feasible, very weird"
just enjoy quoting myself!
enjoy the fun, im off to polish my xl2!

 

[Bob Diesso]

Barry, why do you say "unlikely"? Here's the link to a DVX owner in Tucson apparently trying to sell his DVX.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Panasonic-AG-DV...555862339QQcategoryZ20332QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Bids are up to $1250 so far. The guy seems legit and there's no sign of a scam that I can see. Is there something I missed? It may be worth watching how the bidding ends up. $2000 would be great, but he's a long way from that now.

My problem is how Panasonic themselves seem to have driven the value of my camera down. $2899 PLUS batteries and tapes is a far cry from what I paid only a year ago. The DVX is a great product. Thousands of owners like me really believe in this camera. Why does Panasonic feel compelled to cheapen it?

 

[Barry_Green]

Bids are up to $1250 so far. The guy seems legit and there's no sign of a scam that I can see. Is there something I missed?

Just look at completed auctions. Don't bother with auctions that are in progress, that's no way to judge, as items usually leap dramatically in value in the last 5 seconds of bidding. Look at the completed auctions. There are lots of DVX100 and DVX100A auctions completed in the last month; it's hard to sort through them but ignore all the "buy it now" ones, and you'll see lots of DVX100A's at $2900 or $2600 or $2300 or so. The very, very cheapest one was $1600.

Why does Panasonic feel compelled to cheapen it?

Panasonic feels compelled to sell product. They do what it takes to move the product.

A year ago the competition was very, very different -- there was no FX1, no Z1, no HD100, the HVX wasn't even announced, and the only competition was a much-more-expensive XL2. Now things are different. So their marketing has responded.

 

[Bob Diesso]

There are lots of DVX100 and DVX100A auctions completed in the last month; it's hard to sort through them but ignore all the "buy it now" ones, and you'll see lots of DVX100A's at $2900 or $2600 or $2300 or so. The very, very cheapest one was $1600.

Panasonic feels compelled to sell product. They do what it takes to move the product.

A year ago the competition was very, very different -- there was no FX1, no Z1, no HD100, the HVX wasn't even announced, and the only competition was a much-more-expensive XL2. Now things are different. So their marketing has responded.

This is not what I'm seeing. Who in their right mind would buy a used DVX100 for $2600, as you say, when a new one can be had with batteries and tapes for $2899?

Well, I love the product but Panasonic's "marketing" has certainly devalued my investment. Canon introduced the XL-H1 at about $10k and the HD100 sells for $5900 and the Z1 for maybe $5400. The DVX is a GREAT camera at its original price. Lots of people like me bought it. Why does Panasonic feel compelled to undermine our investment just so they can sell a few more?

 

[geffy]

the new canon looks great as does the new panasonic, itll get better then the only difference between amateur and professional will be opportunity and talent, just like now

 

[Jan_Crittenden]

This is not what I'm seeing. Who in their right mind would buy a used DVX100 for $2600, as you say, when a new one can be had with batteries and tapes for $2899?

Well, I love the product but Panasonic's "marketing" has certainly devalued my investment. Canon introduced the XL-H1 at about $10k and the HD100 sells for $5900 and the Z1 for maybe $5400. The DVX is a GREAT camera at its original price. Lots of people like me bought it. Why does Panasonic feel compelled to undermine our investment just so they can sell a few more?

Hi Bob,

In response to your question, I don't see that what we have done as devaluing your purchase. The list price has remained the same. We have promoted the DVX100A in light of the fact that there is increased competition, from all sides actually, and an incoming product that is its replacement. When we brought in the DVX100As, many complaints were had on the fact that they had just purchased at the same price the DVX100, and there was much angst on that idea for at least 6 months after the fact and even today I suffer through one or two complaints. So keeping that idea in mind for the last 2 years, we approched this introduction with some trepidation. So we have offered an incentive rebate for the purchase of the DVX100A and have introduced the 100B at the same price. It is a pretty tough world out there and just to maintain market share, sometimes you need to entertain some agressive strategies.

The Z1 sells for $4995 every day of the week, and the FX1 can be had at $3999. The Canon XL2 is selling for $3595, a major decrease from their initial list price of $4995. So yes there is competition.

Best regards,

Jan

 

[Jim Arthurs]

Hey, buying cameras and speculating on their resale value is not the way to achieve financial success... you have to look at the value you get out of their service along with the resale price to determine total value.

I sold my DVX last November on Ebay... I did so because I was purchasing a Z1 and didn't want any greater loss due to the competition by waiting and selling later. I got a good price.

I then sold my Z1 in June (knowing that the HVX was THE camera for me) to get the greatest value out of it before it had HDV competition in the form of the JVC. I got a good price.

Basically, I optimized my return, but at the expense of not having the cameras in service for several months waiting for the next "big thing".

This was acceptable to me because neither camera were income earners. If you're actually making money with these cameras, then it's pretty irrelevant what the resale value is, IMO.

Regards,

Jim Arthurs

 

[philnerd]

This is not what I'm seeing. Who in their right mind would buy a used DVX100 for $2600, as you say, when a new one can be had with batteries and tapes for $2899?

Well, I love the product but Panasonic's "marketing" has certainly devalued my investment. Canon introduced the XL-H1 at about $10k and the HD100 sells for $5900 and the Z1 for maybe $5400. The DVX is a GREAT camera at its original price. Lots of people like me bought it. Why does Panasonic feel compelled to undermine our investment just so they can sell a few more?

You know, this reminds of all the complaining that went on when Hasbro/Kenner re-released some of the really hard to find star wars toys (stuff like the early 80's A-Wing fighter and Sand Skiff - stuff that goes for $500 to $1K+ in the collector market).

Like it or not, a manufacturer - of whatever - is trying to sell product. Period. They are completely not responsible for ANYTHING in the used market. Now you mentioned that Canon's XLH1 is priced at about 10K (actually, its 9K isn't it?). You don't mean to imply that Canon priced it that high to protect XL2 owner's camcorder investment, right? If so, rest assured, Canon priced it that high to protect THEIR Xl2 investment. I'm sure they were fully aware that a 5-6K XLH1 would have taken away sales of the XL2. And they're out to sell product. As someone else mentioned, the XL2 has actually dropped a ton in value. People were paying 5 grand for XL2s at launch. Now I can order the thing for $3600 - and that's from B&H!

I could be wrong, but I think these 3K+ cams are pretty much designed for the working crowd. Most of the people that purchase these make money with them and the cam pays for itself many times over. Any resale after that is just icing. Now I'm not implying that you've done this, but anyone that purchases a cam at this price point for fun or personal projects and fully anticipates a high resalve value.. well, they probably shouldn't have dropped so much money on a cam to begin with. If someone's not rich or making money with video, a 3K camcorder is just a bad idea. A motivated individual can make some great content with a $500 camcorder and they won't be in debt or have to worry about resale value if the transmission on the car dies.

Philip Williams
www.philipwilliams.com

 

[geffy]

found a dvx in the bottom of a cornflakes packet, what a rip off i wanted a plastic wallace and gromit, guess ill try ebay

 

[Bob Diesso]

Hi Bob,

In response to your question, I don't see that what we have done as devaluing your purchase. The list price has remained the same.

When we brought in the DVX100As, many complaints were had on the fact that they had just purchased at the same price the DVX100, and there was much angst on that idea for at least 6 months after the fact and even today I suffer through one or two complaints. So keeping that idea in mind for the last 2 years, we approched this introduction with some trepidation. So we have offered an incentive rebate for the purchase of the DVX100A and have introduced the 100B at the same price. It is a pretty tough world out there and just to maintain market share, sometimes you need to entertain some agressive strategies.

Best regards,

Jan

Jan, respectfully, it isn't the list price that I'm concerned about. It's the market price that's the concern, and the fact that Panasonic has intentionally driven the price down via dealer price redutions, rebates, free goods or whatever. I respectfully understand you have to sell cameras in a competitive market, but you should keep in mind the good faith investment people make in your product TODAY.

If it isn't possible to sustain pricing integrity, then perhaps you'd be kind enough to let us all know what the HVX will be selling for NEXT year. At least then we could buy today with some foresight as to Panasonic's plans for degradation of our investment.

 

[Bob Diesso]

A Panasonic response would be appreciated.

 

[Jan_Crittenden]

Jan, respectfully, it isn't the list price that I'm concerned about. It's the market price that's the concern, and the fact that Panasonic has intentionally driven the price down via dealer price redutions, rebates, free goods or whatever. I respectfully understand you have to sell cameras in a competitive market, but you should keep in mind the good faith investment people make in your product TODAY.

If it isn't possible to sustain pricing integrity, then perhaps you'd be kind enough to let us all know what the HVX will be selling for NEXT year. At least then we could buy today with some foresight as to Panasonic's plans for degradation of our investment.

Hi Bob,

Sorry, I have been a little busy which is why I have not responded sooner.

First, I have not reduced the price of the camera to the dealers and if you can show me a marketing bulletin that says that I will give you $500. The fact is you will not be able to. I have not reduced the price. I have made the camera competitive with what else is out there vying for the consumer dollar with an attractive rebate and free goods. If I didn't then I would not sell as many as needed.

In the world of mini-DV camcorders you can and should expect that the minute you start to put hours on your camcorder you have lost about half the value of the camera. Done deal. The fact that you can get an HDV camcorder for the same price as a DVX makes for a very competitive environment. However the list price of the camera is still $3995. This is why I didn't change the list price of the product. A year from now if some one asks what was the price of the camera, as they do in the insurance industry, I say $3995. Value sustained. Two years from now $3995. Three, etc. The reality is the camera still has the same list price. Long after the gray market issues (another little problem) go away the camera will be remembered as a $3995 camera. Point is, in a competitive environment especially with the DVX100B coming in, I ran a special program. I do not happen to agree with you on your interpretation of that marketing effort.

In the meantime, go make money with it, it does not become more valuable with age, it is not an investment. It is a tool, tools are not investments in and of themselves, they are an investment in your ability to create something. It should enhance your abilities and in doing so allow you to sell your creative ideas over your competition. This is the first rule in the video business. I know guys that 7 years ago bought a Betacam BVW-D600 with lens for about $56,000. That camera isn't worth $5,000 today, actually the lens is worth more than the camera. But during the last seven years they paid for the camera that allowed them to be creative and make video that was attractive. You cannot expect a camera to hold its market value over time, the video business just does not work that way.

The replacement for the DVX100A is the 100B, guess what, the price is $3995.

As far as plans for the HVX, well that is a tough crystal ball isn't it? The camera does and doesn't have competition. Some would say HDV is competition, but I don't see that, the performance is vastly different. The workflow is vastly different. The pricing is vastly different. I don't see another small frame based codec camera in the neighborhood. But as I have with the DVX camera, I will do the best job I know how to maintain its market value, and make it the most desireable camera in the market place.

Best,

Jan

 

[dregenthal]

Barry, why do you say "unlikely"? Here's the link to a DVX owner in Tucson apparently trying to sell his DVX.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Panasonic-AG-DV...555862339QQcategoryZ20332QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Bids are up to $1250 so far. The guy seems legit and there's no sign of a scam that I can see. Is there something I missed? It may be worth watching how the bidding ends up. $2000 would be great, but he's a long way from that now.

Hi Bob- I checked the auction you referenced (above) which has ended, and guess what? The camera sold for $1920.00 What's really interesting is that it was not a DVX100A . . . it was in fact, the original, a DVX100.

Very cool, no?