DVExpo: What I learned about the audio...

ullanta

Veteran
Well, my main thing to find out today was about the 4-channel audio. Who cares about poixel counts, sensitivity, 42" Plasma? I want 4 uncompressed channels.

Sadly, the news was personally disappointing to me... I'm not knocking the camera, for which I'm clearly not the target market... but real 4-channel audio would've sorta let me justify a purchase. Now, I don't think so.


Anyway, after getting very little information, someone actually let me read through the HVX manual in the Panny booth, and then I got sort of a confirmation from Jan.

Basically, the signal from the internal camera mic is recorded to channels 3 and 4. And, unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a way to control gain for channels 3 and 4. Since the HVX has ALC - limiting, rather than a full AGC - I can't see how this would be very useful. Noone from Panasonic could even guess at what the "default" gain setting might be for these two channels.... alls I knows is that in most situations the signal would be either unusably low or banging too hard against the limiter.

I'm frankly a little confused - it seems the resources could have been better used. A setting, e.g., that allowed the XLRs to be used as line inputs, while using the gain controls for the internal mic would have been useful; and all the capability seems to be there. Or, of course, better yet, to use the Phono Jack inputs as line inputs on channel 3 and 4 (which can be done now, but only for audio dubbing in VCR mode).

I have a DVX100P, which I am very happy with, and though I would have preferred to have many of the improvements in the 100A, I never felt "gypped" as some here have. But I have now a tremendous fear that a future revision to the HVX would indeed remedy this sad audio situation... it seems like a very logical and fairly simple fix. And this thought alone is pretty much enough to keep my from buying the camera.

Again, I'm mostly in a specialty niche (Classical Music Live Recording) where these features are essential to me, and I understand that I'm not the target market, so I'm not faulting Panny on this decision... I'm just sad. Sniff. And sharing this, since I've been trying to get the audio details for months, and perhaps some other folks have also...
 
I am with ya Ullanta. I think Panasonic missed a major selling point here. Even if access to channel 3 and 4 was gained through some extra $$$ add-on, they could have open up a much larger market with this feature.

I and a few others on here discussed this topic many months back in here. With all the excitement over the picture, I guess Panasonic just doesn't believe 2 extra channels of audio would be that important feature to a bunch of us. This would item number one for me to start pushing Panasonic to address in the HVX200a (if they even do another a, b, etc, series with this camera).

I will still be getting the HVX and think it is an amazing breakthrough camera, but I think Panasonic missed an easy free kick on goal here.

Cheers
 
Maybe they'll come out with a nagra style, p2 based audiorecorder with eight channels uncompressed and slave TC?
That actually doesn't sound so bad...
:)
 
wabbit said:
I and a few others on here discussed this topic many months back in here. With all the excitement over the picture, I guess Panasonic just doesn't believe 2 extra channels of audio would be that important feature to a bunch of us. This would item number one for me to start pushing Panasonic to address in the HVX200a (if they even do another a, b, etc, series with this camera).

Yes, I was pushing for it (and even for a digital audio in!), and the Green Barry said he lobbied for it for all he was worth, but some trade-off somewhere kept it from happening.

And yes, OliverM, some kind of P2-based recording device would be really sweet, especially if it's real tiny! There'res a new tide of flash-based digital recorders hitting the market now, but none are up to recording 8 channels so far... for me, a little P2 device that just records from an ADAT in would be peachy...

-Barry
 
So Barry, that was you I talked to in the HVX demo room? I didn't put two and two together until right now. So, hi!

Yes, I'm not quite sure how valuable tracks 3 & 4 are going to be. I haven't had a chance to delve into the audio side of the cam yet. Right now I'm thinking it's mainly a left/right channel with a separate "scratch track" coming from the onboard. Maybe Beachtek or someone will develop an adapter that plucks the onboard mic off and replaces it with two more XLRs, and somehow gives proper control to those?
 
Barry_Green said:
So Barry, that was you I talked to in the HVX demo room? I didn't put two and two together until right now. So, hi!

Yes, I'm not quite sure how valuable tracks 3 & 4 are going to be. I haven't had a chance to delve into the audio side of the cam yet. Right now I'm thinking it's mainly a left/right channel with a separate "scratch track" coming from the onboard. Maybe Beachtek or someone will develop an adapter that plucks the onboard mic off and replaces it with two more XLRs, and somehow gives proper control to those?

Hi!

I could see it as scratch... but, if just looking for a scratch track, you'd use channels 1 and 2, no? With a useful rough level? 3 and 4 only really come into play when using some other mics for 1 and 2, which I guess would be a better scratch?

I like your beachtek idea, but I wonder how much of the internal signal processing could be bypassed in this way... better than nothing, but I imagine the mic is hard-wired to some sorta preamp. There are also monitoring issues... but if there was a way to get a line-level signal from a good preamp in there, it would be great...

But Barry, I know there's no real answer, but do you have any intuition from dealings with Panny that a revision may address this?
 
When some of the excitement dies down (Dec 30th? :) ) I for one will join you in lobbying Jan to at the very least talk to R&D to include four external channels in whatever their next P2 camera offering is. Maybe even consider going up to 24bit recording since the bandwidth is not limited by tape anymore (probably stretching it a bit for a sub $10,000 camera but can't hurt to ask).

I can't imagine a P2 8 channel audio recorder being very cost effective. The Deva offers this ability without having to buy expensive P2 media. You can slave two SD 744t for 8 channels and use the much cheaper per gig Compactflash medium. Not saying more choices wouldn't be nice but don't see the market for P2 bandwidth in audio.

Cheers
 
But Barry, I know there's no real answer, but do you have any intuition from dealings with Panny that a revision may address this?
Well, no, not as far as I know. I know I lobbied heavily to get the RCAs enabled as inputs, but that didn't happen. Sure would be nice though.

Don't expect to see any revision for quite a while. They'll have to make quite a few of these in order to amortize the R&D costs, I would presume.
 
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