DVCPRO-HD on MiniDV
- Thread starter ettubaby
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Re: DVCPRO-HD on MiniDV
If you look in the "AJ-HDX100 - check camcorderinfo.com" thread, it is mentioned. And that's what is printed in camcorderinfo.com. That it will record to p2 cards and MiniDV tapes. Now the question is this camera DVCPRO-HD? I guess that kinda foolish, DVCPRO-HD is just a trademark not a standard.
If you look in the "AJ-HDX100 - check camcorderinfo.com" thread, it is mentioned. And that's what is printed in camcorderinfo.com. That it will record to p2 cards and MiniDV tapes. Now the question is this camera DVCPRO-HD? I guess that kinda foolish, DVCPRO-HD is just a trademark not a standard.
scharky
Veteran
Re: DVCPRO-HD on MiniDV
Camcorderinfo.com :-X
Don't ever believe a single word of what is written on that site. IT is one of the poorest managed and unreliable sites on the net. If the HDX or whatever does include mini DV tape usage it would only be to record at 25mbps just like the DV of today. Again, the sources at Camcorderinfo are unreliable at best, and more often than not are baised opinions of the complete amutures that work on that site.
Stay away, stay far away.
Camcorderinfo.com :-X
Don't ever believe a single word of what is written on that site. IT is one of the poorest managed and unreliable sites on the net. If the HDX or whatever does include mini DV tape usage it would only be to record at 25mbps just like the DV of today. Again, the sources at Camcorderinfo are unreliable at best, and more often than not are baised opinions of the complete amutures that work on that site.
Stay away, stay far away.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: DVCPRO-HD on MiniDV
DVCPRO-HD is most definitely a standard, it's a worldwide standard that is supported by multiple cameras, decks, and editing systems. And the new camera will record in that format, as well as DVCPRO-50 and DVCPRO-25/miniDV.
DVCPRO-HD is most definitely a standard, it's a worldwide standard that is supported by multiple cameras, decks, and editing systems. And the new camera will record in that format, as well as DVCPRO-50 and DVCPRO-25/miniDV.
Robert_Niemann
Well-known member
Re: DVCPRO-HD on MiniDV
The new camera will record DVCPRO-25 with MiniDV cassettes? Where do You get that from, Barry? I thought, I had read somewhere, that the new camera will have no motorized section without the zoom one. ???
The new camera will record DVCPRO-25 with MiniDV cassettes? Where do You get that from, Barry? I thought, I had read somewhere, that the new camera will have no motorized section without the zoom one. ???
Jan_Crittenden
Veteran
Re: DVCPRO-HD on MiniDV
[quote author=Robert Niemann link=board=HDV;num=1109292964;start=0#6 date=02/26/05 at 02:02:04]The new camera will record DVCPRO-25 with MiniDV cassettes? Where do You get that from, Barry? I thought, I had read somewhere, that the new camera will have no motorized section without the zoom one. ???[/quote]
He didn't say that. He said that it recorded it, he didn't say to tape. DVCPRO is a SMPTE standard 306M-2002, with the simplified designation of D-7, this includes the DVCPRO50. It records to a Metal Particle Tape, SMPTE Standard 307M-2002. DVCPROHD is also a SMPTE standard 371M-2002, D-12.
Hope this helps,
Jan
[quote author=Robert Niemann link=board=HDV;num=1109292964;start=0#6 date=02/26/05 at 02:02:04]The new camera will record DVCPRO-25 with MiniDV cassettes? Where do You get that from, Barry? I thought, I had read somewhere, that the new camera will have no motorized section without the zoom one. ???[/quote]
He didn't say that. He said that it recorded it, he didn't say to tape. DVCPRO is a SMPTE standard 306M-2002, with the simplified designation of D-7, this includes the DVCPRO50. It records to a Metal Particle Tape, SMPTE Standard 307M-2002. DVCPROHD is also a SMPTE standard 371M-2002, D-12.
Hope this helps,
Jan
Gary_McClurg
Well-known member
Re: DVCPRO-HD on MiniDV
He didn't say that. He said that it recorded it, he didn't say to tape. DVCPRO is a SMPTE standard 306M-2002, with the simplified designation of D-7, this includes the DVCPRO50. It records to a Metal Particle Tape, SMPTE Standard 307M-2002. DVCPROHD is also a SMPTE standard 371M-2002, D-12.
Barry for us non tech guys please translate.
He didn't say that. He said that it recorded it, he didn't say to tape. DVCPRO is a SMPTE standard 306M-2002, with the simplified designation of D-7, this includes the DVCPRO50. It records to a Metal Particle Tape, SMPTE Standard 307M-2002. DVCPROHD is also a SMPTE standard 371M-2002, D-12.
Barry for us non tech guys please translate.
Barry_Green
Moderator
Re: DVCPRO-HD on MiniDV
She's saying that as part of the DVCPRO25 specification, it requires that the footage be recorded on metal particle tape (DV uses Metal Evaporated tape, a cheaper/less-robust/inferior technology). So if the camera were to have a tape drive and record DVCPRO25 to tape, it couldn't also be a miniDV tape drive, because the tape formulations aren't the same.
However, what I was saying was (unless I got it wrong, and Jan can correct me) I thought she'd said that the camera records all those formats. Obviously if there were a tape drive in the camera (which I don't know if that's been confirmed or not) it'd have to be either miniDV, or DVCPRO25, but not both. Although the data stream is identical (I believe it is), the difference between miniDV and DVCPRO25 is the tape format and the way it's recorded on tape.
Now, if it's recorded on P2, then that difference becomes irrelevant, as does the difference between DV and DVCAM -- the difference between DV and DVCAM is only in the way it's recorded on tape, but if you're not recording on tape, what's the difference?
(oh, one other difference is that DVCAM uses "locked audio", whereas miniDV uses "unlocked"... except for the DVX, which uses "locked" audio anyway!)
So, assuming that the camera could record miniDV footage to P2 cards, we could also further extrapolate and say that it was recording DVCAM, couldn't we? Since the bitstream is identical?
So do we indeed have a five-format camera coming? DVCPRO-HD, DVCPRO-50, DVCPRO-25, DVCAM, and miniDV? ;D
Okay, now extrapolating further: regarding tape, I think it's unlikely that there would be a DVCPRO-HD or DVCPRO-50 tape drive. It's so hard to keep track of the rumors and postulations and who-said-what, but I think it's very unlikely that we'd get those mechanisms on tape. So if there is tape at all, it'd be either DVCPRO-25 or miniDV, right? And what Jan is saying is that DVCPRO-25 can't be recorded on a miniDV tape, it'd by default become miniDV (assuming an identical biststream) because DVCPRO-25 uses a different type of tape, different track width, etc. So if there IS a tape drive, it seems reasonable to assume that it'd be miniDV. But it won't be both. If there is tape at all, it would seem reasonable to guess that it'd be either miniDV OR DVCPRO-25, but not both. And I'm sure, with all due respect to Jan, that we'd rather have miniDV, to maintain compatibility with our DVXes and all the decks and other things out there...
She's saying that as part of the DVCPRO25 specification, it requires that the footage be recorded on metal particle tape (DV uses Metal Evaporated tape, a cheaper/less-robust/inferior technology). So if the camera were to have a tape drive and record DVCPRO25 to tape, it couldn't also be a miniDV tape drive, because the tape formulations aren't the same.
However, what I was saying was (unless I got it wrong, and Jan can correct me) I thought she'd said that the camera records all those formats. Obviously if there were a tape drive in the camera (which I don't know if that's been confirmed or not) it'd have to be either miniDV, or DVCPRO25, but not both. Although the data stream is identical (I believe it is), the difference between miniDV and DVCPRO25 is the tape format and the way it's recorded on tape.
Now, if it's recorded on P2, then that difference becomes irrelevant, as does the difference between DV and DVCAM -- the difference between DV and DVCAM is only in the way it's recorded on tape, but if you're not recording on tape, what's the difference?
(oh, one other difference is that DVCAM uses "locked audio", whereas miniDV uses "unlocked"... except for the DVX, which uses "locked" audio anyway!)
So, assuming that the camera could record miniDV footage to P2 cards, we could also further extrapolate and say that it was recording DVCAM, couldn't we? Since the bitstream is identical?
So do we indeed have a five-format camera coming? DVCPRO-HD, DVCPRO-50, DVCPRO-25, DVCAM, and miniDV? ;D
Okay, now extrapolating further: regarding tape, I think it's unlikely that there would be a DVCPRO-HD or DVCPRO-50 tape drive. It's so hard to keep track of the rumors and postulations and who-said-what, but I think it's very unlikely that we'd get those mechanisms on tape. So if there is tape at all, it'd be either DVCPRO-25 or miniDV, right? And what Jan is saying is that DVCPRO-25 can't be recorded on a miniDV tape, it'd by default become miniDV (assuming an identical biststream) because DVCPRO-25 uses a different type of tape, different track width, etc. So if there IS a tape drive, it seems reasonable to assume that it'd be miniDV. But it won't be both. If there is tape at all, it would seem reasonable to guess that it'd be either miniDV OR DVCPRO-25, but not both. And I'm sure, with all due respect to Jan, that we'd rather have miniDV, to maintain compatibility with our DVXes and all the decks and other things out there...
Gary_McClurg
Well-known member
Re: DVCPRO-HD on MiniDV
Correct, me if I'm wrong and I'm also sure the over-zealous Sony lovers (HDprod, EurVwhatever, and Jimmy) will want to tar and feather me. Oh, well so is life.
So Sony to record to mini dv tape used a lesser quality format so that it could record both HDV and DV. So if I'm guessing right Panny's DVCPROHD will blow the HDV codec out of the water.
Now I think the Sony camera has some good things, but 24p is what I want
Which will mean in my thinking the P2 cards will be a lot cheaper than people think. They'll have to be.
Correct, me if I'm wrong and I'm also sure the over-zealous Sony lovers (HDprod, EurVwhatever, and Jimmy) will want to tar and feather me. Oh, well so is life.
So Sony to record to mini dv tape used a lesser quality format so that it could record both HDV and DV. So if I'm guessing right Panny's DVCPROHD will blow the HDV codec out of the water.
Now I think the Sony camera has some good things, but 24p is what I want
Which will mean in my thinking the P2 cards will be a lot cheaper than people think. They'll have to be.
mr._guiyotinne
Well-known member
Re: DVCPRO-HD on MiniDV
Gary you nail it! but you must say Real 24p looking and smiling in Sony´s direction ;D And at a much, much better price (i read Barry´s post from Sony´s release for NAB 2005 and yes it looks like the real, but in higher cams, so not perfect for S fans).
Gary you nail it! but you must say Real 24p looking and smiling in Sony´s direction ;D And at a much, much better price (i read Barry´s post from Sony´s release for NAB 2005 and yes it looks like the real, but in higher cams, so not perfect for S fans).
Paolo Rudelli
New member
DVCPRO-HD SMPTE standard
DVCPRO-HD SMPTE standard
Hallo
first a want say sorry for my bad english...
I try to find out wich standar SMPTE (and format) is it the DVCPRO-HD from hvx-200 camera is.
i did a search on internet but i found so many info(discording?) and i still dont know.
is it
s274M
s292M
s370M(audio?)
s371M
or somthing else
thanks for help.
ADD: i found this table (in french) is the info right?
http://www.techniques-ingenieur.fr/dossier/enregistrement_magnetique_des_images_formats_numeriques/TE5772C
DVCPRO-HD SMPTE standard
Hallo
first a want say sorry for my bad english...
I try to find out wich standar SMPTE (and format) is it the DVCPRO-HD from hvx-200 camera is.
i did a search on internet but i found so many info(discording?) and i still dont know.
is it
s274M
s292M
s370M(audio?)
s371M
or somthing else
thanks for help.
ADD: i found this table (in french) is the info right?
http://www.techniques-ingenieur.fr/dossier/enregistrement_magnetique_des_images_formats_numeriques/TE5772C
Last edited:
Barry_Green
Moderator
Are you talking about DVCPRO-HD itself? Or the MXF format that DVCPRO-HD gets transported in on the HVX?
DVCPRO-HD, as a data format and compression system, is SMPTE 370M. It was first introduced on tape, and I believe that the relevant doc for that is SMPTE 371M. As implemented in the HVX it uses the MXF Op-Atom file format, which is SMPTE 390M.
DVCPRO-HD, as a data format and compression system, is SMPTE 370M. It was first introduced on tape, and I believe that the relevant doc for that is SMPTE 371M. As implemented in the HVX it uses the MXF Op-Atom file format, which is SMPTE 390M.
The point being is that the HVX200 does NOT record DVCProHD footage or DV50 footage to tape.
Paolo Rudelli
New member
thx barry and david for u fast answer.
David: Yes i know u cant record dvcpro on mini-dv tape
Barry: what i was looking is the s370m smpte, thx for the info.
P
David: Yes i know u cant record dvcpro on mini-dv tape
Barry: what i was looking is the s370m smpte, thx for the info.
P
Paolo Rudelli
New member
u can record dv compression format in p2 card yes (minidv is only tape)
if i remeber good the main difference betwin dv format and dvcpro25 format is the dv is 4:2:0 and dvcpro25 is 4:1:1.
but maybe iam wrong some one can confirm this?
if i remeber good the main difference betwin dv format and dvcpro25 format is the dv is 4:2:0 and dvcpro25 is 4:1:1.
but maybe iam wrong some one can confirm this?
But PAL DV (and DVCAM) is 4:2:0, while PAL DVCPRO 25 is 4:1:1.